Hickling Broad

[ginbottle]

Might seem a silly question to some, but we wish to do the right thing so...

Yesterday, the river was so calm, it seemed a shame not to take advantage of the ideal conditions and take a trip along to Hickling Broad. We have only managed part of this route once before, but had to turn back, due to the high winds. On the way there, the channel was clearly marked by port and starboard posts, but as my other half isn't too competent yet, we didn't go right into Hickling, but turned around before things got complicated and headed back. Here's the question... If we are supposed to keep the green posts on the starboard side, which we did, this means we are not returning down the same channel and was that the correct way to do it? 

The boat trip to Hickling took us one hour each way. We later went by car, to have a look around and that took ten minutes, plus fifteen minutes walk each way along the river bank to and from the car!  

[ExMemberBobdog]

The channel is the channel whichever way you are going.  As you head upriver (away from the sea) you keep the green posts to starboard and the red posts to port.  So heading from Martham to Hickling (for example), green posts to starboard.  When you turn and head downriver, you keep the green posts to port.  There are not two channels, and the posts do not move!

[imtamping2]

No you should have returned down the same channel.......... Always keep between the posts.....

NEVER either side (thats where the dragons live)

[Mark]

Or to make it easier think RRR...    for  keeping the  Red (post)  on the   Right  (Starboard)  when  Returning (To Sea)

So more basic still, RRR if navigating up stream, and the opposite for down stream

[ExMemberBobdog]

15 minutes ago, imtamping2 said:

NEVER either side (thats where the dragons live)

Bloody hell, have the Welsh escaped again?  Never mind, we'll put them back in their place on 11th Feb.  Wooden spoon anyone?

[smellyloo]

Not a silly question at all.

For the novice broads sailor this can seem very confusing especially if your not sure whether you are heading towards or away from the sea.

[ExMemberBobdog]

5 minutes ago, Mark said:

Or to make it easier think RRR...    for  keeping the  Red (post)  on the   Right  (Starboard)  when  Returning (To Sea)

So more basic still, RRR if navigating up stream, and the opposite for down stream

I think you've contradicted yourself there! RRR DOWN stream!

 

[Broads01]

I can understand your confusion ginbottle.  I've always disliked the red-green system because its not intuitive which side of the posts you should be. The red-green system relies on you being able to see red and green together,  which is simple for a straight channel but not so where the channel turns or meets other channels.   I strongly believe this is why so many people go aground on Breydon.  I would prefer a system whereby just by looking at a single post,  you can see which side of it you should pass,  either from an arrow or by use of a dual colour scheme (e.g. red and white post and you pass on the white side). 

I've raised similar in the past and been shouted down on the basis that the red-green system is the established marine norm. - that doesn't wash with me because the system is flawed. 

[ZimbiIV]

Must admit my mantra has always been.

Red and Green keep between.

paul

[MauriceMynah]

Don't worry too much about this problem Ginbottle. The bottom tip of your outboard (the skeg) is the deepest point on your boat. My best guess is that you draw (the distance from the water line to the deepest point) somewhere around 18 inches (45 cm). and for the greatest part, you will not find water shallower than that anywhere close to the channel. I have wandered outside the channel several times and am yet to come to grief doing so. (I draw a bit more than you do)

I do hope you're about next time I come up as I would consider it an honour and a joy to either go in convoy with you or to have you aboard for a trip from your lodge to the Pleasure Boat Inn and show you the do's and don'ts. There are very few 'don'ts'.

 

[ginbottle]

MauriceMynah, I'm not allowed to like your post, but being the rebel that I am...I do like it!

[ginbottle]

In fact, I like all the above posts and many thanks to you all for posting them!

[Vaughan]

Just another thing - you may see a red and white striped post and this is a "middle ground" marker which is where two channels divide, so you go either side of it. On some rivers it will indicate a channel either side of an island.

If you have a good map of the Broads with you, this will show the channels and give you no doubt as to which way is upstream.

[Mark]

1 hour ago, Bobdog said:

I think you've contradicted yourself there! RRR DOWN stream!

 

Opps yes indeed DOWN stream , and  thanks for spotting and correcting

[JennyMorgan]

To add to the confusion sailing boats on Hickling all seem to ignore the posts entirely! When the channel markers first went in it was not to show where folk can't go rather it was so they didn't get lost when heading towards the public staithe & the pub.

[thingamybob]

Hi ginbottle.

I think the subject has been well covered by the above posts so I am not going to enlarge on the subject except to say that the only problem you may encounter outside the posts is weed.

The main channel is kept clear by the boat traffic cutting the stuff up. In general, you will not go aground on Hickling and you will often see large boats swinging at anchor way off the fairway with impunity.

Also think of all the sailing boats with their long keels often sailing up very close to the reeds. Don't worry, go and enjoy yourself, I think the Hickling/Horsey area is the best bit of the Broads.

By the way, don't go off the fairway on Breydon.............

Otherwise this happens:

 

 

[thingamybob]

AARGH! Its all gone pear shaped.

[Vaughan]

Just in case you ever take a boat on a river in France, watch out, as the French, being French, do it the other way round! They work out their buoyage by "going with the flow" of the current down the river (which is why it is called a "fleuve"). This is also why, in Paris, the area to the south of the Seine is called the Rive Gauche, or left bank. To us, it would be the right bank!

Luckily for us, they also paint the buoys in opposite colours so that, for them, a red buoy is a right hand mark but for us, it is still a left hand mark. 

There is nothing quite like the French. . . . .

[stumpy]

I was taught by a grizzled old Sea dog the easy way to remember was "There's RED PORT LEFT UP on the shelf" - blast was it really 50 years ago??

ETA: The UP refers to going upstream, of course.

Edited January 6, 2017 by stumpy

[TheQ]

58 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

To add to the confusion sailing boats on Hickling all seem to ignore the posts entirely! When the channel markers first went in it was not to show where folk can't go rather it was so they didn't get lost when heading towards the public staithe & the pub.

It depends on the boat and the local Knowledge, during the 3 rivers race a couple of years ago, a broads sailing cruiser spent most of the night hard aground, just off of the channel near the sharpest point in the bend up to the sailing club (seaward side), where as others sailed past either side of him.

Of course you might not Know what depth other boats draw.  As someone in a Yeoman drawing 3 ft found out, when I sailed over the Stokesby slipway in a bilge keel boat drawing 18 inches and they came to a sudden halt behind me.

 The broad has had some dredging lately, particularly up by the sailing club and the mud banks will move around /slide into the dredged channel giving a general increase in depth both sides of the channel markers.

[Labrador]

1 hour ago, thingamybob said:

 In general, you will not go aground on Hickling 

How true,  you might go'asludge', symptoms being a noticeable decrease in speed at constant revs! 

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, thingamybob said:

Hi ginbottle.

I think the subject has been well covered by the above posts so I am not going to enlarge on the subject except to say that the only problem you may encounter outside the posts is weed.

The main channel is kept clear by the boat traffic cutting the stuff up. In general, you will not go aground on Hickling and you will often see large boats swinging at anchor way off the fairway with impunity.

Also think of all the sailing boats with their long keels often sailing up very close to the reeds. Don't worry, go and enjoy yourself, I think the Hickling/Horsey area is the best bit of the Broads.

By the way, don't go off the fairway on Breydon.............

Otherwise this happens:

 

 

Don't such boats have radar, GPS, depth sounders, shallow water alarms, chart plotters et al so what chance do mere novices in more basic boats have?

[ExUserGone]

Although very good at sea and on the lower reaches of tidal rivers it's fair to say the red/green system is pretty poor for further inland when theres been multiple splits in the channel since sea and a lot of crews don't know which way the sea is anyway.

Even at sea it can be confusing going around the coast as the local direction of bouyage changes around big estuarys as well, the rules always work when going in and out of harbours though.

[ranworthbreeze]

The poles can be an issue for new crews to the Broads.

One way to make it clearer would be to paint a white line up the inside face of the pole and if you keep within the white lines you would be safe. The white or day-glow lines would be easier to see.

Regards

Alan

[TheQ]

Also definately don't go between any red or green (traffic cone shaped) bouys, or thin yellow posts (2X2 inches squares, several feet long) and the bank. Thats the Broads authority marking an obstruction normally close to the bank.