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Heater control

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Hi,

I have just brought a ex BT Eberspacher heater. My problem is trying to remove the rotary control switch from the cage. There is no retaining screw visible, does the iluminated knob just pull off?

Looking forward to the replies on this one :norty:

Ian

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Pete, be careful with that kind of modification, you could be storing up problems, the rotary control is not in fact a thermostat and has no thermistor properties but a simple potentiometer which gives a resistance value to the board, using a “make and break†thermostat can cause problems as the unit is not designed to run in an on / off manner. The temperature sensor is either inside the heater (for small recirculated air installations) or on a cabin mounted extension (for installations using outside air or if the heater intake is a long way from where you would like the temperature sensed).

The heater should run constantly, the potentiometer sets the “target†temperature with it’s resistance value and the heater runs on full until that is almost reached, it then reduces output until the “target†temperature is achieved, it then reduces further to maintain that temperature, very rarely actually shutting down completely as it would with a household make and break thermostat switch. If you want a separate starter switch by your bunk the it is better to use the earth pulse lead which is designed for just that purpose and also takes a signal from a key fob or mobile ‘phone starter.

:-D :-D

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Yes, it will still work Pete but the following conponents will not last nearly as long as they should.

1) glow pin

2) glow pin screen

Also you will get a higher battery drain from constant "cold" sarts and the unit will also coke up more quickly.

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Timely subject this, I have a Mikuni MY30 and have just been looking on their website at the 7 day timer option. Mainly because I can't stand the noise of it running all night, but it might be nice to time it to come on half hour or so, before tumbling out of bed in the morning. I am also planning a shopping trip, by river to Norwich at the end of November and whilst most of the evening will be spent in a pub somewhere, it would be nice to time it to turn on half hour or so, before returning to the boat, to take the chill out of the air.

The price on the website including tax and delivery is around £135. Is this the best option or is there a cheaper way of doing it? Anyone know if the Webbo or Eber timers advertised on Ebay would work with a Mikuni? I should also mention that my Mikuni is a 24V heater.

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Hi Keith,

Even the Webasto and Webo ones (combined timer and target heat unit) though they look amost identical are different and will not operate except on their own manufacturers heater, though they will operate 12v and 24v heaters with just a bulb change. The timers alone are another matter and it is possible to use them across the board if you use the right trigger wire,If you have a wirng diag or schematic for the Mikuni I will be able to suggest something, if not I'll see if I can source one and have a peruse. The Mikuni timer price is about the same as a Webo or Ebo one would cost from a dealer assuming it is also a temp control.

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so why should you by a heater IE webo eber ect ect.

there seems to be so meny bad point and some good points about these sort of heaters why not just use an oil fill radiator and put it in a secure position.

i fail to see a reason why anybody would buy one. or am i missing something here apart from there expensive?

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Unfortunetly I don't have any information on the Mikuni unit at all. I think on balence, I'll play it safe and buy the Mikuni timer. I notice the only agents for them in Norfolk, were Woods Dyke in Horning, who have now closed up shop. I am a little nervous about ongoing support for this unit now, but whilst it works, won't be changing it. I also suspect it is only 5 years old, as it's 24v, and that is about when the Barnes modifications for 12 and 24V were done to this boat.

Jonny,

To answer your question, when at my home mooring, or if I can get connected to shore power I do use oil filled radiators, which are quieter, sometimes on very cold nights, I hace placed an oil filled rad in front of the hot air outlet and that becomes very efficient. However when out and about in the Winter, I don't always end up near shore power and then the hot air heating comes into it's own. Generally in Winter there is not a lot of other people around, so the noise isn't so much of a problem, but even then I don't like sleeping with it on. Hence the timer option.

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They are not normally unreliable Jonny, there a thousands of them around happily roaring away, in the main the problems I have come across are user related, poor fitting or lack of maintainance, mostly on the power supply side and thats the first thing I go for, don't often have to look much further.

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One of the first bits of advice I was given, when I first moved the boat to its mooring, was never leave it more than two or three weeks, between firing it up for a short while, even in the Summer. Advice I have followed and to date it has never failed to work. Hope that isn't famous last words.

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Perry,

Yes we have been seduced by being on warm boats!

The ex BT (heater works shame about their broadband) system is in our garage rigged up on a bench and working well. It would have been even better if it was on the boat for this weekend.

Thanks for the info on removing the knob, with a bit of pressure it came off OK.

Last weekend on the boat :Sailing:cry

Ian

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I also have a Mikuni MY30 although mine is 12v. Having read somewhere on this forum about silencers i thought good idea, it is rather noisy so priced it up and then checked to make sure it would fit ok, guess what? yes its allready fitted! hate to think how noisy they are without the silencer!

Will be on the boat next week be interesting to see how it copes in cold weather.

JohnT

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JohnT,

Be interested to know how well yours does in the cold, and also where the air intake pickup is.

I find in really cold weather mine struggles to really heat the cabin, it's a lot better if I have an oil filled radiator near the outlet blowing across it and adding extra heat. I think the problem with mine is that it is built behind the rear wardrobe and the air intake is directly from the bilge which has to be some of the coldest air on the boat. I have read somewhere on a boating forum and copy of an installation manual somewhere, that says the air intake should come from the cabin, so that you are recirculating air that is gradually getting warmer. This all makes perfect sense and was one of the mods planned for this Summer, of course you don't really need the heater in the Summer and that job is still on the list to be done. Now Winter is arriving. :cry

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Hi Keith, the difference in performance by recirculating the cabin air will be quite noticeable, I guarantee, the next most efficient modification that really improves the output at the vents is lagging the ducting. The combustion air intake can be left in the bilge as obviously the colder that is the better as obviously cold air carries more oxygen and improves the combustion.

Also you may find this http://www.mikuniheating.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=69&pg=1 useful

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cheers for the link, that was where I got my price from for the timer. It's strange, but if you look there appears to be three 24vtimers all the same but with different prices. It's only when you click on the links and looks towards the bottom that you see the different heater reference numbers. So the 24v timers at £92 would fit the MX40 and MX60 which are the water heaters and the my16 which is the smaller hot ait heater. The one at £105 fits the MY30 which is my heater, add £8 for del + VAT and you get closer to £135. The only difference in the timers can be the wiring loom, but it seems a bit of a con, but probably not worth the £13 saving trying to modify it.

The MY30 is the larger unit they do and suitable for upto 4 outlets. They advise once you reach 42ft you require two and upto 8 outlets. So one on my boat at 35ft with three outlets should be fine. The front cabin has a lot of glass and gets the coldest in Winter and is the furthest away from the heater. The heater is in the wardrobe which is just inside the back door. the pipe isn't lagged and looks a pain to get to for most of the run.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. When I bought the boat it had a noisey 240v diesel generator under the front bed. Tried it a couple of times and it was very noisey, dangerous because you were reaching into a dark cupboard near to moving parts to start and stop it, no remote options fitted. It was converted for raw water cooling, which leaked like a sieve and another source of diesel leaks at the front which made the cabin smell really bad, in fact the whole bilge and boat. As Barnes had already done most of the pre req work on the boat for removing the genny and installing an invertor on all four of the Times, in fact two of them had the gennys removed and the full mod done. I decided to remove the genny, strip back all the diesel pipework to the engine and cap it off, remove all the raw water pipework back to the engine and cap it off. Clean the whole area down, add a couple of extra batteries and an invertor and build an extra much needed upboard where the invertor had been. I have left the raw water outlet that goes out through the side of the boat at the front, due to lack of really good fibre glass skills, and it provides some ventilation for the charging batteries. Now I realise that I should have changed this for an exhaust vent, left the diesel pipe where it was, but sort out all the leaks and install a second heater under the front bed, dedicated to the front cabin. By removing one of the outlets from the existing heater, would have helped it heat the other two better.

It's all still doable of course, but I think the cheaper option of relocating the air pickup and some lagging will be tried first.

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JohnT,

Be interested to know how well yours does in the cold, and also where the air intake pickup is.

I find in really cold weather mine struggles to really heat the cabin, it's a lot better if I have an oil filled radiator near the outlet blowing across it and adding extra heat. I think the problem with mine is that it is built behind the rear wardrobe and the air intake is directly from the bilge which has to be some of the coldest air on the boat. I have read somewhere on a boating forum and copy of an installation manual somewhere, that says the air intake should come from the cabin, so that you are recirculating air that is gradually getting warmer. This all makes perfect sense and was one of the mods planned for this Summer, of course you don't really need the heater in the Summer and that job is still on the list to be done. Now Winter is arriving. :cry

Upto now its coped very well, will see this next week how it copes in these temperatures(will let you know).

The air inlet is from the engine bilge(centre cockpit), under the saloon seats, i also have the notion to pipe it from the cabin as re-circulating the air sounds more efficient, also will not pick up the oil and diesel smells as it did when we first got her(cleaned out the bilge and use soak mats now)

On the same page of the Mikuni website, I noticed a battery powered 7 day timer which it says is for all models (the white one) not as posh but at less than half the price gotta be worth considering!

JohnT

cheersbar

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