Big Changes Ahead

[Meg]

Hello Robin, I do not think you will have any problem getting a job, it would seem you can turn your hand to most things. I wish you well in your new adventure and hope it doesn't stop the blogs. Remember someone once said" life is too short to stuff a mushroom", time is pretty slippery stuff and so do not waste any of it.

[SEAMASTER]

I do not want to dampen down your dream at all but I would look at the reality of this. This is a long project and a very very expensive one. I have had 2 sea boats Princess and sealine both with twin caterpillar engines. Dam right expensive to maintain and run. You need all the proper servicing and oils and lube. Yes you think I will just plod along at 10 knots. You won't be able to because this little thing clicks in your head telling you full throttle because your at sea.. ask anyone who owns or had a sea going boat. Lets put it like this if you run your 12.000 hp your only get between 5 to 7 miles per gallon on a calm day. Also some early Caterpillars was fitted with out the oil cooler. Before you make the plunge have a very good think of what you are buying. I wish you well what ever you decide. 

Jack

[Polly]

Can you charter a Trader for a week or two to test your dream?

[Hylander]

For someone who knows zip about these boats ,  why are they called Trader Yachts please when they are not yachts.

 

Well the ones I have seen under the name of Trader Yachts have no sails.

[LondonRascal]

This is rather nice, like an evolving story or diary.

So in reply firstly to Jack:

You make some good points, so let’s address the first which is cost and the big one that people mention is fuel, but that is only relative to what you use, very much a variable but what is a pretty stable and a known item that must be attended to is servicing.

The problem is this the least enjoyable and nice part about boating – or with anything in life. I mean,  how many people bother to check under the bonnet of their car once a week and check the belts, the coolant, oil and brake fluid levels and tyre pressure and keep on top of any obvious things and religiously stick to the service regime of the car? Because growing up with my Dad it was the Sunday afternoon habit, and I would help out it would be something I naturally do and a number of issues were nipped in the bud before they grew to be a costly repair that way.

Conversely, how many who own a large boat lift up the floor boards and do the same checks on their boat engines – on what is effectively a ‘large toy’? They feel perhaps they should do but only because one day they might sell and encounter a fastidious buyer who wants to know such has been done.

On my part I come eyes wide open to this fact and I am fast going off the idea of the boat I like because of a gut feeling – it has been done because it needed to be not because they wanted it done.  You know the type of phone call:

“Mr Smith we noticed that the exhaust elbow on the port engine is showing some signs of corrosion and this really does need to be replaced”

“How much is the part?”

“It is £1,700 Mr Smith.”

“Can it wait until next season?

“Urm, well based on your usage I don’t see too much harm to wait until then”

“Ok we will leave it as is.”

Next season comes around, by now the port engine exhaust elbow is almost shot and starboard one is well on the way too – port engine one gets done, starboard one is bodged but Mr Smith can say the craft has been serviced annually and all work that was advised carried out – big difference than it actually being perfectly sound.

Secondly, I don’t actually agree with wanting to put the throttle down and head out to sea – just because you can. I understand that most owners do this because that is the point of owning a powerful boat – it is the thrill of the speed but it does not appeal to me as much.

When I speak of driving, I am told things like:

"Oh Robin, one day you’ve got to get a small mid-engine sports car and give it the beans on a twisting A road, through the gears, feeding it into the bends, top down, sun out and really feel the car”

I almost embarrassingly have to reply:

“I’d prefer to be in a Lexus or a BMW being cosseted along in silence in an heated  leather seat.”

Oh, the look of partial confusion and disdain I then get. So it is to me the main selling point of new boats – speed and power – ‘the magical 30 knot performance.’ Go to a boat show and you see men almost drooling over new shiny Penta’s and salesmen keen to point out their new craft ‘comfortably cruises at 25 knots but can achieve 33. It is like a peeing contest - I’ll pass thanks.

I want to enjoy the act of the passage, the rolling, the sound of the water being parted at the bow, the reassuring growl of the engines. Being able to walk around, or get a drink and not holding on with white knuckles smiling through gritted teeth as the helm reaches for another handful of throttle. Take me to Holland at 9 Knots, sip some good  wine and glance down to my fuel flow meter working out the fuel savings are helping buy me a Williams Jet Rib to mess about in.  That is my idea of cursing for it is as much about enjoying the journey as the destination.

Moving to Pauline:

A nice idea but not for me because then I would surely find all the problems and as my mum would roll her eyes to my mantra “It is lovely, but..the only problem is..” and the bubble would be burst, the excitement, it would be like seeing a girl you have a crush on and you’ve only ever seen with her make up on and perfect styled clothes, on a Sunday morning pop out with the rubbish bags. Oh, so that is what she is like really then. The bubble would burst.

It is perhaps about value and life. It seems acceptable to have a coffee with friends and announce that you are going to have a new fitted kitchen and conservatory.  You go over the idea, the ladies agree reassuringly at how this would bring so much more light in and be a nice extra social space, and to think of how those fancy drawers and cupboards will help with the storage and you just simply cannot wait for the integrated 5 burner hob with double oven. Husband pipes up 'Have you seen those new Smeg oven doors Robert? They fold away flat into the oven after you have opened them'.

What really is going on is a expression of reaching a point in life that this can be done - it is countered with the sensible fact doing so will add some extra value to your home. It is like a ladder. Be it in education with the ladder you begin with there: school to collage to university. The you get on another ladder when you begin employment but it does not stop there, there is the housing ladder and even in the world of boating the updates, the upgrades and selling on and moving up.

I don't want any ladders - I have successfully dodged them all my life preferring to catch the lift instead. This boat buying has no reason other than a wish. I need not have such a large boat, with such power and as many berths - lets face it 90% of the time it will be me on board from time to time, but it is the freedom and choice to do more, take on that new challenge and it all be on my shoulders. It is also to include others share, debate, invite, learn from etc. Because if it all goes wrong, the worst that can be is I am no worse off that I am as I sit here now and I am rather happy with my seat and life as it is so really, in life you got to feel the fear, but do it anyway.

 

 

[LondonRascal]

5 minutes ago, Hylander said:

For someone who knows zip about these boats ,  why are they called Trader Yachts please when they are not yachts.

 

Well the ones I have seen under the name of Trader Yachts have no sails.

 

They used to be called Trader Motorboats and the CEO Tony Chappell  has been in the UK marine business for over 30 years, selling boats to customers worldwide from their Emsworth base. Tarquin (the company that builds them) have their boats built in Taiwan and China at two separate and independent boat yards which continue to build yachts for other brands, including Monte Fino.
 

in 2009 the business went bust - the boats live on under a new owner and new name 'Explorer' (rather than Trader) and Mr Chappell has a string of creditors from large companies to individuals, not a nice chap it turns out. He cant be a company Director now, so has decided to 'work for' a new company as a Sales Manager the last time I heard.

 

The reason they are 'Trader Yachts is just a brand you know a Motor Yacht sounds better than a Power Boat. Adds an element of style and luxuries a few stations past its own stop.

[ChrisB]

15 minutes ago, Hylander said:

For someone who knows zip about these boats ,  why are they called Trader Yachts please when they are not yachts.

 

Well the ones I have seen under the name of Trader Yachts have no sails.

The word "yacht" is used for any recreational boat. Naturally it needs to be a bit bigger than my twenty footer, I would not call it a yacht. I think the bit about sails is mostly to do with the UK, the word comes from the Dutch "jacht" which was a fast sail boat and has stuck for saily ones. Motor boats were traditionally classed as TSDY or SSDY. Twin Screw Diesel Yacht or Single Screw but this description seems to have gone out of fashion and been shortened to yacht, shame I liked the sort of ad that said " Gentlemans TSDY "

[donnygeoff]

9 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

Oh Robin, one day you’ve got to get a small mid-engine sports car and give it the beans on a twisting A road, through the gears, feeding it into the bends, top down, sun out and really feel the car”

yup, I said that to myself, (I didn't call myself Robin though)

So I did

[ExSurveyor]

Robin,  the wisdom usually given is buy a boat bigger than you think you need as you will trade up to a bigger boat within a year or two.

I don't think you need to heed this advice, if you go much bigger you will need a full time crew.

 

[Polly]

Yes yachts are big. Brilliant, despite her evidently being a saily is a boat, a Broads Sailing Cruiser if you will but isn't big enough to be called a yacht.

[johnb]

Now a bit of lateral thinking, it's reported in another place that the Training Ship Nelson is to be sold from the Wensum in Norwich-it seems to have plenty of room!

If you get one of those plush luxury yachts you are looking at, I am not sure you will have many opportunities to be on your own, after all, you mentioned friends visiting, I'm not sure how many active members this forum has, but quite a few will probably be willing to visit you, especially if a salty voyage is on offer.

We lived in the Lake District for a couple of years, you have no idea how many friends we had who were just passing for a few days.Funny things was when we moved to the less pleasant  parts of London, they didn't seem to need to come that way.

Whatever you decide, hope it all goes well. I am afraid I am unable to provide sensible advice.

[Jocave]

Robin just follow your heart and don't get too hung up minor details, if its something you have always wanted to do and are now in a position to do then just go for it, you can um and ah over things and then before you know it its too late and you have missed your chance, you don't know what is around the corner ,anything could happen, you are still young (well youngish) fit and healthy you can obviously afford it so why not, its only money and you can't put a price on happiness, at the end of the day you can't take it with you so spend it while you can ,if it doesn't work out you can always sell it later on down the line, at least you tried it, lots of people put things off and then something crops up whether its a health problem or a financial hic up and then you will always think "I wish I had done it when I had the chance" I have a long list of things I wish I had done but due to the other half's health issues I no longer can , our boat purchase has been the best thing we have done , it may only last another year or so but at least we have experienced it and we can always sell it when the time comes, OK we might lose money but who cares , go for it Robin and make sure you blog the whole experience, looking forward to following your journey....

[LondonRascal]

I am now chasing two boats - the first I had mentioned, but now a second with a keen seller.

Boat number two (identical model but 2002 vintage) has smaller engines at 500HP (less fuel burn which is nice ) but they are Yanmar 6CXM-GTE2 . I need to go looking up these and find out the low down. Thing is,  they seem a lot smaller - 7.4 litre compared to the 12 litre CAT's. (no doo doo Sherlock) but I mean actually they are a lot lighter,  so much so a second 90 gallon fuel tank is provided midships to keep the center of gravity down.

They have only 560Hrs on them, and have been looked after by Barrus in Plymouth - the boat has had two owners, the current for over half the boats life. indeed the boat was out the water for anti-fouling, anode replacements and engine service two months ago.

She has a Survey Report I want to get my hands on too, be interesting to compare to the other one in near Southampton. But she has more toys - Satellite Trac Vision for the TV but also a second one for satellite phones - they don't come cheap, has had all the carpeting renewed, all the upholstery internally renewed, with new blinds and curtains has a new washer/dryer and even a dishwasher but the best toy is the Williams 285 Jet Tender which is just a couple of years old and needed a new crane installing with remote operation to get it on and off the upper aft deck.

Hmm. HMM!

However this broker seems a little too honest for his own good. He has told me how hard these boats are to sell especially since the company that used to build and sell them went bust in 2009 - some have taken up to 5 years and many price reductions to sell. Reading between the lines this one has been on the market a good while too. Since I am not looking to buy, keep for a couple of years, sell and move on it suits me and this also tells me I might be on to something good when it comes to price negotiations. 

[NeilB]

Check out the prices on Yanmar parts, makes Volvo look cheap! 

[Snowy]

Can I just say that this is THE best topic I’ve read (and I’ve read a lot of previous topics since joining)

its so exciting, you really feel like your going through the whole experience with Robin

but without the outlay !

I can’t wait for the maiden voyage video blog 

[quo vadis]

Robin Yanmar are without doubt very good engines but not in the same league as Cat or Cummins by a long shot 

[Guest]

In today's highly competitive engine market, no company makes a bad engine.

[quo vadis]

Hatz Deutz Paxman need any more? 

[Guest]

today's!

[SEAMASTER]

1 hour ago, NeilB said:

Check out the prices on Yanmar parts, makes Volvo look cheap! 

Personally I would go for the Volvo D12. Bomb proof engine.

same engine as they fitted in there trucks. 

[Guest]

Any truck engine derivative modified for marine has to be good. 

[quo vadis]

41 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

today's!

Yes 

[Guest]

I guess my point is that coming from stick & flappy bits boat (15m), to the recent purchase of a "TSDY" (albeit not quite as big as the one Robin is looking at), I focused on the boat and provided the engines had a good service history, performed on sea trial, had low hours etc. regarded them with an equal consideration to all of the other machinery and equipment on the boat in my decision process.

[BrundallNavy]

8 hours ago, Philosophical said:

Any truck engine derivative modified for marine has to be good. 

We had a Volvo truck engine modified to run a 1000v generator and it was a pain in the backside and proved very unreliable.

[NeilB]

D12 was dropped over 7 years ago, now using the D13 from 400 to 1000hp.

VP often take a lot of stick but they sell as many, if not more, marine engines as the majority of their competitors put together so it naturally follows any issues are also of a higher volume.  Half of VP engine production is actually used for power generation and off road use, if your dustmen are using a Dennis truck it will have a Penta engine in it – we’re everywhere!!

I’ve heard all sorts of issues with CATs, Cummins, Yanmar etc over the years and Volvo have had their fair share as well.  A lot of the time engine manufacturers are blamed when the issue is down to the installation, lack of maintenance and misuse. 

There has been the odd lemon of an engine across all manufacturers but most engines are pretty good as long as installed and maintained correctly.