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Jocave

Using A Boat With No Bss

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20 hours ago, VetChugger said:

Best of luck, I know what its like trying to get a tad aged small boat through this kerfuffle!

I am more familiar with EC regulations nowadays than the BSS although I was very closely involved in the writing of the original regulations in the late 1970s, long before the arrival of the Broads Authority.

Please let us all remember that it is not a kerfuffle : it is designed in the best interests of saving the lives of you and your family.

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My apologies Vaughn, I had no intention at all to trivialise this issue. Its just the way I occasionally express myself. Where I come from a "kerfuffle" is simply a task that involves a few others within it! I had very similar issues to Jocave with my own similar aged Norman.

I would hope my serious intention at genuine advice was more prominent than a careless expression at the end.

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6 hours ago, VetChugger said:

My apologies Vaughn, I had no intention at all to trivialise this issue. Its just the way I occasionally express myself. Where I come from a "kerfuffle" is simply a task that involves a few others within it! I had very similar issues to Jocave with my own similar aged Norman.

I would hope my serious intention at genuine advice was more prominent than a careless expression at the end.

Thank you for that and I apologise if I over reacted.

It is a fact, that all safety regulations are brought about by lessons learned after accidents. This applies to all industries, including railways and aircraft. I happen to have seen the results of too many  such accidents on boats back in the 60s, in the days of Jenners, so I know how easily things can go wrong. That was why we at Blakes wrote the first regulations, when we did.

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11 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Please let us all remember that it is not a kerfuffle : it is designed in the best interests of saving the lives of you and your family.

If only that were true Vaughan. Like the motor industry's MOT, what you say used to be the case, but not so much these days. There are regulations that are more to do with conservation, for example the rules regarding bilge water and engine drip trays. 

I have no doubt that the original documents at the initial group gatherings were only interested in the safety aspect, but others jumped on the bandwagon and stuck their own little oars in.

 

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On 30/09/2017 at 20:09, Jocave said:

Not seen the report but the marina have said various issues with the gas installation and various issues with the heating installation, won't know exactly what issues there are until I get up there next week, they are not too good with technology I asked them to scan and email me the report but they said they didn't know how to but they could post it second class, they didn't even tell me it had failed  two weeks ago, Its hard work getting anything done ,I'm quickly going off the idea of owning a boat if this is what I'm up against.

I would be very uncomfortable dealing with a business who responded in such a way I'm afraid !

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47 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

There are regulations that are more to do with conservation, for example the rules regarding bilge water and engine drip trays. 

Without being flippant, I would say, why not? They are not there to save life - at least not directly - but they are there to save the rivers!

In fact engine trays and such were all part of our original draft regulations, which were then passed un-changed by Hoseasons and then also by the Commissioners. So the Broads had its first regulations, which were completely practical, as they were written by boatyard owners. They were later adopted by the NRA for all inland waters. We did this so that we could show that we had a set of rules and were policing them, as we feared that when the new BA came along, they would start imposing all sorts of weird and expensive alterations which would almost certainly have put us out of business! As a result, when the BA did arrive, they thankfully left us alone to get on with it.

I mention all this because the BSS is a direct descendant of these first rules and I note that they have hardly changed at all except for a few modern details. So they are based on being safe, but also on being practical and I hope members agree with that sentiment.

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Whilst I can't speak on behalf of the BSS, as a BSS examiner I would point out that for private boats, the BSS exists to mitigate third party risks - i.e. that no matter how safe your boat, the boat moored next to it shouldn't blow up, catch fire, or pollute the waterways. The checks are evidence-based, and are designed to be the bare minimum standard to be allowed on to whichever waterway or port authority wishes to use them.

Having surveyed and examined boats for the last five years, I have found that in the absence of something like the BSS, a number of boat owners have been prepared to take some quite scary risks with the safety of themselves and those around them. In a lot of cases, this is because they don't understand exactly what those risks are, or the problem in question is not immediately obvious (let's face it, I suspect there are a fair number of boat owners on here who have not actually looked at large parts of their boat's systems, or at least not done so for a number of years).

If I were to make a conclusion, it's that in my opinion, the BSS works pretty well (maybe not perfectly, but then few things do), and is a lot better than simply trusting people to do the right thing, when they may not know what the right thing is.

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On 01/10/2017 at 00:49, VetChugger said:

I think you changed your fridge Jocave? The Electrolux would have been a failure not being room sealed. What cooker do you have? Many come with the old Vannette? These fail as well for not having a flame failure device. You can get onto the BSS website and see all the issues that count so to speak and try and cross check these with the boat.

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/

The eberspacher could well be exhaust or the burner needed adjusting and is there a test point in your lpg curcuit. The gas storage locker needs a drain hole at the lowest point. (mine was too high!

Most important really is that you find an engineer that you can trust. Being on the Lanky have you thought about seeking advice and recommendations on the Canal Junction forum as they will have folk up there?

Best of luck, I know what its like trying to get a tad aged small boat through this kerfuffle!

No fridge currently fitted, the cooker is the one that was fitted from new and I was told that it was no problem having no flame failure as it was fitted before 1990, as for the other issues I will find out this weekend as I am up there trying to sort everything out so we can have a few more weeks cruising before the winter

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1. Insecure gas pipe behind oven
2.gas pipes contain soldered joints(need to be compression fittings to resist vibration)
3.Gas locker not fixed down
4.Gas locker needs low level drain to exterior
5. Diesel tank incorrect type
6. Diesel tank insecure
7. Needs fixed diesel tank with through deck filling point
8. Gas hose from cylinder in poor condition
9. Petrol tank needs securing 
10. Petrol tank locker needs drain to exterior
11. Eberspacher needs fresh air vent fitting to cockpit area

 

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On 09/10/2017 at 00:18, VetChugger said:

All straightforward enough but I would be curious as to what was wrong with your diesel tank? Wrong type?

Good luck with the fixing.

The current one is just a plastic 25ltr jerry can type thing, it needs one that is fixed in place with a deck filler ( more chance of me spilling diesel into the water that way )

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On 09/10/2017 at 08:22, Dilligaf said:

Sounds like the boat has never had a bss before.

The eberspacher was only fitted last year, the issues with the gas locker were raised on the last bss which I have only just been sent, don't know how it passed unless they have changed the rules as it was only a recommendation

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I'm meeting with the engineer and the bss guy on Saturday at the boat yard to discuss what needs doing, not bothered how much it costs to put right as I just want it sorted now, wife won't set foot on it now because she thinks its not safe.

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Bit of an update ,turns out most of the issues were caused by whoever fitted the eberspacher, the gas locker was relocated but it was just dropped in place ,not fixed down and with no drain vent, the fuel tank was moved to accommodate this , everything is getting put back to how it was and the eberspacher is being relocated, only slight problem is the diesel tank for this, it needs to be a fixed install with a deck filler and I'm having problems trying to locate the necessary parts to do this, seems a bit daft as up until now I could remove the tank and fill it up ashore but with the new rules I will have to reach over the side of the boat and fill it externally, far more chance of spilling diesel into the water now which of course I will do my best to avoid but still a possibility

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Bit late in this case but I would recommend reading the bss guide throughly. Just like a cars mot there is some 'interpretation ' of the regulations.

Some time ago I was amazed to find a boat with its gas bottle in the sideboard within the living accommodation.  The boats owner told us that not only was it compliant, the examiner had commended  him on the installation.  Barry (Springsong ) was there with me  and we passed comment afterwards that we would not fancy a gas bottle in the cabin with us no matter how good the installation was! 

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Just now, Philosophical said:

If my boat failed a BSS:

First; I would be grateful to the engineer for identifying a potentially dangerous issue.

And secondly; I'd be quite embarrassed/ashamed that I'd been using a boat in that condition.  

Totally agree ,I have no idea what does and what does not comply with the bss as this is my first boat, since it failed my wife has refused to set foot onboard,  just want it all put right now so there are no concerns at all, wouldn't allow anyone onboard until everything was put right..

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During 'B.A's restoration period, we used the BSS guide as a kind of 'Workshop Manual'.  We constantly referred to it and  also followed the 'Best Practise' recommendations.  a BSS examiner used to call in on us every couple of months offering professional free advice - that was invaluable even if sometimes some of his advice caused us hours of extra time fettling them.  One recommendation was that we raised up the bilge skin fittings higher up from the waterline.  Together with fitting non-return valves this upgrade paid us back tenfold during our trip to the Thames as it was already in place prior to the event and meant we didn't require a lift out onto the dry hard stuff

Griff

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1 minute ago, Jocave said:

Totally agree ,I have no idea what does and what does not comply with the bss as this is my first boat, since it failed my wife has refused to set foot onboard,  just want it all put right now so there are no concerns at all, wouldn't allow anyone onboard until everything was put right..

Hope it passes soon so that your wife can enjoy the boat.

 

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