Broadland Grebe

[Polly]

Argh! I always hate it when stuff comes out and you see the extent of the problem ahead!

 

[socrates]

14 minutes ago, Polly said:

Argh! I always hate it when stuff comes out and you see the extent of the problem ahead!

 

Wait til you see the pics of the carling! (not the lager)

[Springsong]

To give you an idea  of a poorly maintained varnished hull, and why they then paint them white.

These photos are 20 years apart.

Great thread Socrates, brings back too many memories, I remember painting the T&G for the galley came back the next day and the snow had come in the roof, so I had to start again.

[smellyloo]

Back in the sixties there was nothing so dreary as looking at the old fashioned wooden broads cruisers when compared with the sexy new plastic cruisers.

I alway assumed that painting the varnished hulls white was an attempt to make them look more modern and appealing to potential hirers.

[MauriceMynah]

That was my take on it too Smellyloo. You can't beat a nice bit of plastic you know. I'm sure Clive would know for sure.

[BroadAmbition]

Got caught up again.  Gripping stuff, Tks for sharing

Griff

[FairTmiddlin]

On 10/12/2017 at 20:52, BroadAmbition said:

 

If you make a mistake, we all live and learn and at the end of the day, it's your project.  -  We made loads of these, in fact we got well versed in the accomplishment.  We termed the process   'Learn by do Method'   as in, 'Well, we ain't gonna do it that way next time'  Or     'Well, that's not quite right is it now'? !

 

Griff

I think Griff posted some where in Donny, is a shed full of pieces of wood big enough, to make an 11/12th size copy of Broad Ambition

[Malanka]

Great thread which I am following with rapt attention. I really can’t wait to see Broadland Grebe in Beccles at the show. Be nice to meet yet another pair of totally besotted barking mad loons aka wooden boat custodians. 

We have been down this road, Mals transom was removed not by a power washer but by Phil’s thumb which penetrated into the galley and started an investigation which resulted in new wood. Hardly a surprise veterans will mumble but it was new to us, so total sympathy and empathy from us. 

Not to be a pedant but Malanka was never all varnish and all her screw heads are doweled, having said that she was privately built and never in a hire fleet. 

She still has her lump which replaced the original petrol engine many years ago. 3.8 l bmc. It’s huge, but very economical and with a 1:1 Drive cruises along at tickover most of the time. 

I must admit to huge jealousy over your hands on ability , this is our 8th season and loads of work done all admired by me but not done by me. I’d like to claim that distance is the reason but it’s not ability is. 

Great project and we can’t wait to mosey around ( ok nosey around) and say hi ?. 

M&F

 

[socrates]

Today was a hard day trying to get the port side beam shelf out. For a start it was cold and to add to the misery I had made a school boy error. In my haste to leave for a few beers and curry, I forgot to put the batteries on charge. So on return this morning I was confronted with barely usable drill and saw batteries.

Next problem was that the Grand Geometrician had decreed that we did not have quite enough mahogany for the sliding roof and the cabin sides. There is a huge issue with mobile phone signals at Somerleyton, so Madam Captain was despatched to the top of the road in order to telephone our usual supplier. On return, I was informed that the supplier would not know if her had the wood because he was out of the office.  Not a problem, we will phone later. No, it was a problem. Madam Captain returned to Beccles in order to arrange the wood and some other supplies. I continued to fight with the beam shelf. In fact, it took all day to pull out the shelf, if anyone has ever attempted this task be warned  Screws fail to screw, or just turn, or simply can't be found - all issues anyone who has ever worked on a wooden boat will know only too well. 

Our usual wood supplier had no more mahogany in stock, he informed us that we had bought all he had. Could he not order some for us? Not a chance, as rare as hen's teeth. I mean, who needs 22 foot lengths of African mahogany? Apart from lunatic wooden boat owners, it seems there is not a great deal of demand. More phone calls resulted in cryptic Norfolk conversations, you know the sort? One conversation went  something like this: "Have you got any African Mahogany?", "How much do you want?","22 foot.", sucking of teeth heard down phone, "Might have, just the thing.", "So you have Mahogany?", "I didn't say I had Mahogany.", "Oh.", "I said I had just the thing, and just the thing is different from Mahogany, you aint listening boy.", "Sorry.", "Sorry for what?", "For not listening." "No need to be sorry boy., just that I don't have Mahogany,"    

Back in the shed, somewhat frustrated trying to find the wood, I was talking to a friend who also has a wooden boat. Over a coffee and vape, I related the wood situation to him. It turned out he had purchased the other half of the tree we had purchased, and yes, he could sell us a couple of boards for the same price. Moral of the story, when you are looking for your spectacles, the first place to look is the end of your nose. 

 

[Polly]

Yes, I am in Martin's position of being unskilled in all the key areas, upholstery and canvas no problem, wood, nope! Without Doug's hard work, Brilliant wouldn't be an option for us now.

[socrates]

Having given some consideration to the matter, I have decided to resume posting updates on BG. 

Despite the prophets of doom saying otherwise, We managed to find a planer large enough to accommodate the cabin sides without having to cut and joint them. I think that is pretty good. Anyway, off to Cushions in Great Yarmouth went our cabin sides, they returned two weeks later having been delayed by the Beast from the East. Having taken the old sides off in one piece, it was relatively simple to use them as a rough template. The rough template was then cut out and positioned on the boat. This allowed for marking out the details before returning to the bench for a further cut. 

It was decided to do the final shaping of the cabin sides in situ, this meant carefully lifting the cut sides onto the boat and clamping it in position. Not an easy task which involved three people supporting the side and another positioning the clamps. Once in place, the final cuts were made and the side planed to fit the roof and the deck. Screw holes were then able to be drilled to the side to the boat. 

The window holes were routed out in order to accommodate the rubber seal we had opted for. We had discussions about using an alternative style of window but stuck with windows as close to the original as we could. I know some people prefer opening windows, tinted windows, double glazed windows, metal surrounds and all sorts of fancy things, but we opted for the original., 

The side was screwed and glued in place , and once dried the holes were plugged. With the sides in position, it was now time to give a final shape using a chisel and plane to ensure the side fitted perfectly.

 

Looking at what I have just written it does not seem much. After all, we had survived the apocalyptic predictions of various prophets of doom who claimed we could not get the sides on in one piece, wouldn't find a plane large enough this side of Murmansk and that the side would split when we tried to fix it to the boat. The prophets of doom continue to predict,  they changed their sermon as they turned their attention to the hatches. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

So pleased that you have posted this update, always loved this class when I saw them on the river in their heyday, fantastic to see that someone cares enough to preserve these important craft. 

[Lulu]

Really pleased to see your latest update Socrates.  This is one of my favourite threads 

[Springsong]

Socratese  so good to see you are still up dating us with you work on your iconic Ripple craft.

Your are making me relive the ups and downs of restoring these old bits of history.

Somewhere I have photos of our cabin sides being done but cannot find them at present. I do

remember the front having to be clamped to get the curve right . The windows are old coach 

windows wind up and down, these were very problematic to seal.

Keep up the good work and make yourself known at Beccles I will be on Emily B. this year.

[quo vadis]

Great to see you posting again Socrates keep it coming 

[grendel]

nice to see the updates Socrates, I am at the same point in model #2 of Broad Ambition, I have the side planks,  but now face mutilating them by cutting out the windows, and adapting to the roof profiles. Always a tricky point of no return.

[socrates]

If you visit Liverpool you will soon encounter someone who is an expert on football or a comedian. In the same way, a visit to the Broads will result in encounters with people who have a similar expertise about boats. They are more than happy to tell you all about the time they crossed Breydon Water in a force 10, or how they were planking wooden boats when they were five years old. Like the football pundits of Liverpool, the boating experts of Norfolk tend to be short on knowledge and big on talk. It must have been one such Norfolk "boat builder" who convinced the previous owners of BG that he could make a hatch that actually fitted the boat. The result was something that resembled my granny's bedside table being plonked on the rear of BG and held down with a combination of gravity and luck. Every time it rained the rear of BG would get wet, to the extent we could have a shower in the aft cabin. We sort of resolved the issue by fitting a better cover but this was only ever going to be temporary and the time had come to make a new hatch. Our guests (and we tend to have rather a lot of them) had had just about enough of trips on BG where they went to bed in oilskins on the back bunk. I believe some people like that sort of thing, but it was not the ambience we wanted to promote on BG.

The issue with the aft hatch on Ripplecrafts is the angles involved, it is rather complicated because the hatch sits off centre and is curved in several directions. (see illustrations). We asked for advice from two well-known boat builders who had been recommended to us. As usual, both had different opinions and, after the usual teeth sucking, very different solutions. Neither could actually do the job because they were too busy. This left us with the prospect of leaving the hatch until next year which was hardly an ideal situation. With new cabin sides and a good deal of work having been done internally, a leaking hatch would be a potential disaster. By chance, a good friend looked at the job and with no fuss whatsoever decided that he could do the job. He had worked on another Riplecraft and was available to carry out the work.

Making the new hatch was well beyond my own skills, so I acted as coffee maker and general "go for", while our friend (who became our very own hatch wizard) did the technical stuff. We decided on making the hatches from high quality 18mm marine ply Whilst this is heavy, it will be durable and robust enough  to withstand the weather and even being stood on. Instead of a sliding hatch we opted for a lifting hatch The issue being with the sliding hatch was that it tended to trap water and cause rot and, whilst not original, a lifting hatch would be easier to maintain. We have to remember to lower it under some of the bridges! 

Several different designs were discussed over a beer in Brundall , drawn on a beer mat an a plan decided. A slight modification made in that the weight of the hatch would be too much for gas struts so we opted for manual struts and bolts. 

The old hatch surround was well rotted and removed. This was replaced with iroko screwed to the roof beams and deck beams. The wood was treated with wood preserver and reinstated to make a secure basis for the seal. Two pieces of ply were cut to size for each hatch and then glued together in order that they could be bent to shape. (see photos). 

 

[socrates]

From the photos you will be able to see the complexities of the aft hatch. The hatch wizard may wish to comment further if he/she wishes to reveal himself! 

[Labrador]

Take no notice of some of these so called "experts", X as in unknown quantity, spurt as in drip under pressure. As you seem to be doing a good job.

 

[socrates]

A couple of photos showing where the hatch fits.

[grendel]

as someone who has curved 12mm ply to make norman kite shields, I can appreciate the work involved in this hatch

[socrates]

22 minutes ago, grendel said:

as someone who has curved 12mm ply to make norman kite shields, I can appreciate the work involved in this hatch

I can't take the credit (except for holding and carrying), but the person certainly knows what he/she is doing.

[Regulo]

Great stuff, Socrates, good to be updated. 

[socrates]

The front cabin of BG (other wise known as the adults playroom) is a rather comfortable place marred only by a leaking hatch, and a few other things to be dealt with later. If you look at the phot of BG you will see a rather fetching blue cover has been fitted over the hatch, well there is not really a hatch under there, rather the remains of what was once a hatch. Entering Somerleyton marina last summer, we were surprised by a loud bang. I know we shouldn't really be surprised by bang coming from BG, there has been a fair few over the years we have owned the boat, but this was a loud bang. What had happened was the wind caught the fibreglass cover of the rotten front hatch and ripped it clean off. The cover was doing a pretty good impersonation of a kite as it sailed through the air missing the mast of a sailing boat by inches and then plunging into the marina some 100 metres away. Before we could launch a recovery operation it sank to the bottom leaving only a floating bit of rotten wood as evidence of its existence. The rest of the summer was spent with just the cover and nothing underneath. Clearly, there was a need for a new hatch. 

The previous owners had scavenged a hatch from a different type of boat, possibly a scrapped Hull trawler given the weight and construction of the hatch. It simply did not fit properly and had seen better days protecting fishermen from Icelandic gales. We didn't really have a proper pattern from which to work on a new hatch. But our hatch wizard came up with a simple solution - design and build from scratch. Again he/she had constructed a hatch on another Ripplecraft so knew the difficulties involved. Once again, this task was beyond my own skills. We used the same ply as for the aft hatches and a similar construction. 

The rotten wood was cleaned out and replaced (see photo), the surround of the hatch or hatch combing was built up to form a base for the new lifting hatch. 

[socrates]

The original hatch on a Ripplecraft was on runners, on BG these had long since gone to be replaced by the wooden monstrosity as previously mentioned. 

Again we opted for a lifting hatch which will allow ventilation into the front cabin when cruising on hot summer days. In the evening when it is hot, the hatch can remain open and if need be we can fit a bug screen to prevent the ingress of critters. Personally, I think it is unnecessary for a boat such as BG to be fitted with air-conditioning, again a personal choice because it is the Broads not the Everglades. I now some might disagree.

for security and to prevent unwanted critters, we are fitting two securing bolts on the inside of the hatch. These will remain unlocked when the boat is occupied in order to facilitate escape in the event of emergency or emergencies.