The Haven Bridge

[Vaughan]

Donnygeoff suggested yesterday that we could start other threads apart from the Independence one, and I would like to discuss that fracas with the Haven Bridge, which refused to open, having accepted an advance booking from a vessel which arrived on time.

As far as I have always known the bye-laws, a lifting bridge on a commercial navigation must give priority to vessels, regardless of the state of the road traffic. Another example is the Cross Keys bridge on the A17 at Sutton. If a ship is coming up the Nene to Wisbech, then the bridge opens, regardless of traffic on the trunk road. I have looked at Peel Ports (Gt Yarmouth) instructions for the booking of the bridge and there is nothing there (over a whole page) which mentions any set times of opening, with respect to rush hours. They will even open for you at night, if you want to pay a large fee.

We must remember that the Yare is not like other Broads rivers. It is a maritime navigation to the port of Norwich. That was what Hardley Cross was there for, since it forms the old boundary between the responsibilities of Gt Yarmouth and Norwich, for the upkeep of the river. When the BA was first formed, it was not responsible for the Yare, for this reason, and I am not sure that it is fully responsible even now, in terms of navigation.

Loaded coasters for Norwich had to go up the Yare on a rising tide, so their time of leaving Yarmouth depended on careful timing, regardless of road traffic. On the way back, more often light loaded, they left Norwich at high tide and came down on the ebb. This also meant that they only rarely had to cross each other on the river. This is why vessels have to have priority over road traffic, since it is the state of the tide that counts. This also applies to Independence since her draft means she will want to go up the Yare with the tide.

I suppose the port authority can always fall back on a "technical fault" but that excuse only goes so far. I see this as yet another ancient right of navigation being slowly and surreptitiously swept under the carpet. If the Haven bridge no longer wants to open for pleasure boats, then neither will the railway swing bridges. That would mean the end of the Brundall Navy and of yards such as Brooms.

One wonders whether, if that pilot boat had not demanded a "commercial" passage to Goodchild's yard, whether they would have opened at all for Robin, or whether he would still be stuck there until Monday? I hope that Robin and Griff, when they have had time to catch their breath, will be making their feelings known to Peel Ports? I hope so.

 

[Polly]

I am sure so! And rightly so.

[Meantime]

Now is probably the time for those with a vested interest in bridge lifts (I don't go under Haven and can just about squeeze under Breydon ) to intereact with the BA and Peel Ports.

A story appeared on the EDP website back in January about the port control possibly relocating to Liverpool. I cannot see any update on the website, but I did hear on The Beach radio that the local consultation was happening with staff and local users of the port. Ironically that meeting was yesterday! If its bad enough getting a bridge lift now, what will it be like if the control moves to Liverpool.

Here is the link to the original story.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/business/jobs-to-go-in-great-yarmouth-port-reshuffle-1-5360856

[Cockatoo]

10 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

If the Haven bridge no longer wants to open for pleasure boats, then neither will the railway swing bridges.

 

Hasn't that already happened at Trowse?

[grendel]

I think Robin did mention that when they tried for the lift earlier next morning it failed, and the engineers were called, who were the ones who managed to get it to lift at 10.15 to let Robin and the Pilot through (that discussion may have been on the facebook page.)

[grendel]

It does however bring up the question whether essential maintenance has been skimped if every time they try to lift the bridge it fails and they have to get the engineers in to change the fuse or whatever it is they need to do. (have they tried turning it off and on again)

[Cockatoo]

It must be the cynic in me that wonders if they even tried for a lift in the morning rush hour.

 

[Vaughan]

17 minutes ago, SteveDuk said:

Hasn't that already happened at Trowse?

Not in theory, as long as you book well in advance. One wonders whether it will still actually open, though. We should also remember that those millions were spent on the new Trowse bridge, and the Breydon bascule bridge, simply because the Yare is a maritime navigation.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, grendel said:

I think Robin did mention that when they tried for the lift earlier next morning it failed, and the engineers were called, who were the ones who managed to get it to lift at 10.15 to let Robin and the Pilot through (that discussion may have been on the facebook page.)

I'm sure there was a 07:30 lift booked for Tuesday

[Hockham Admiral]

Haven bridge was always a problem in our yachting days (1985 - 2005) and Robin mentioned the tremendous tides both in speed and height range which kept him up most of the night.

The average air height at high tide is quoted as 9ft 6ins and our next boat, Friday Girl 3, had 8ft 10ins. So we were able to go directly underneath on return from abroad to Goodchilds and later Bells in Brundall.

[vanessan]

I have yet to get Potter bridge to lift for me despite many requests. It’s just not on!!

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, vanessan said:

I have yet to get Potter bridge to lift for me despite many requests. It’s just not on!!

What's needed at Potter is a decent riverside pub in which to wait for the bridge to lift!!

[BroadAmbition]

I hope that Robin and Griff, when they have had time to catch their breath, will be making their feelings known to Peel Ports? I hope so.

Tis already done.

I  chased around Tuesday afternoon to get hold of the top honcho at Peel Ports in GYA - His communications with me to date have proved promising and I await his findings.  I can of course comment on this thread about the subject matter but not about what I have emailed to Peel Ports Gya.  I wrote a fully detailed report then finished it of with a list of questions, discussed the same then with Robin.  I emailed said document off last night at 2330 and got two further replies around midnight - Impressed

Griff

[BroadAmbition]

I think Robin did mention that when they tried for the lift earlier next morning it failed,.

They made no attempt to lift Haven at 0730 despite promising they would do so the night before

Griff

[Guest]

Just now, BroadAmbition said:

I think Robin did mention that when they tried for the lift earlier next morning it failed,.

They made no attempt to lift Haven at 0730 despite promising they would do so the night before

Griff

0730 was a published bridge opening at 1657 Monday.

[BroadAmbition]

It must be the cynic in me that wonders if they even tried for a lift in the morning rush hour.

I seem to have the same cynical thoughts.  Thing is 1615 isn't in the rush hour that normally commences at 1700-ish doesn't it?  Not opening in case emergency vehicles are inconvenienced does not hold any water (Pun intended) either as the same emergency vehicles would be inconvenienced no matter what time of day.  However it was the bridge control that suggested the time of 0730 on the Wednesday.  It was also the same bridge control that gave Robin the 1615 time on the Tuesday that we battled to comply with and made it - just

Griff

[BroadAmbition]

0730 was a published bridge opening at 1657 Monday.

I believe you 100%  I also believe 100%  the eye witnesses onboard seeing no staff or barriers being lowered either

Griff

 

[FairTmiddlin]

I believe all Emergency services are kept aware by Port authority of the lifting of either bridge.

So can make plans accordingly

[BroadAmbition]

but what the heck,

Easy for you to say, it messed up Team Indy's plans no end.  Missed the Breydon / Yare trip which we were all looking forward to  more than any other leg of the trip, that was to be our reward if you like.   Plus my boy had further to drive to collect us and a longer journey home for all of us. By the time I got into bed with a full days work the following day booked in we had been on the go for 22 x Hrs, of which eleven of those hours were tough, eight of them especially so and for what?   It put Robin onboard overnight single handed having to tend ropes / tides etc, then having to ask at short notice for volunteers from the NBN (They were the lucky ones) to be onboard early the next morning by 0700 to get Indy ready for the lift at 0730 as promised which never happened.  The volunteer crew could have bimbled along for 0930 and still had plenty of time in hand.  But the real biggy was Team Indy having a 'Call the hands' at 0400 for a 0500 departure, battling huge seas (Well huge to Indy) initially during a night navigation to GYA when we could have run for a safe haven on numerous occasions as Robin suggested.  That is just some of the consequences - There are others plus a host of questions

But what the heck.

While I'm not having any of it.  If I let this one go, the Haven operators will just become even more blasé and start treating river users as a nuisance or second class travellers.  I'm taking them to task over it and hope it will benefit all of us

A very annoyed - Griff

[LondonRascal]

I was in communication with the bridge control updating them on progress of Independence and her ETA - and asking what the latest time they could open the bridge would be (16:15).

I then called again at about 15:30 to explain Independence would be there on time, and they said nothing still about any fault or issue. We know then the bridge did not lift, and I again called and refereed to their website and the importance of getting the boat through, and my willingness to pay the fee to do so outside of normal operations - I was then told the bridge lift crew had signed off for their shift and that was that. I was assured that 07:30 the following morning the lift could go ahead.

I did say how unusual it seemed that the fault would be fixed overnight with no bridge crews on duty - I was met with a silence.

Come the next day I was trying to confirm things, but my calls were left unanswered and having left a voice mail to explain things - and be willing to pay what it took to get the boat through, I still had no call back or response. At sometime between 09:30 and 10:00 radio traffic was heard between a Pilot boat and Haven Bridge - no mention was made to them of a fault or that something was being done and a lift was 'hopeful' it was all matter of fact and then I was called up on VHF to be told to follow the Pilot boat through (as it turned out they followed us) through.

Another issue later was with Reedham Bridge - I had read in the past boaters posting questions about VHF calls going unanswered - it was the case with us - silence yet the bridge sign said 'Open on Request'. With no answer from the bridge and it in the closed position, we came to moor at the waiting pontoon - no sooner had I shut down engines then,  with no warning,  the bridge began to open and we had to make a dash to get untied and underway again. How long do you know the bridge may remain open for in such an example.

So my overall experience with bridges has not been that good but none the less it was certainly nice to have been the one to take her through these and see them all open for us.

[BroadAmbition]

You're ok Mate, no need for the apology but it wasn't just missing the Yare trip, there were so many other consequences.  The Team, Robin etc were treated with ignorance and an appalling attitude

Griff

[Vaughan]

Well, this turns out to be an awful lot worse than I thought it was!

One could be forgiven for feeling that it sounds like deliberate embuggerance.

[ExSurveyor]

Perhaps someone taking the attitude of,  sod them,  they can wait.  What these people don't take into account is that if the bridges aren't used they would be out of a job.  Sadly an all too common attitude in many types of employment these days,  the customer is no longer King,  just an inconvenience.

They ought to try self employment.

Vaughn, I like embuggerance,  I shall remember that one

Edited February 7, 2018 by psychicsurveyor

[Vaughan]

33 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Vaughn, I like embuggerance,  I shall remember that one

Especially as it seems to get past the forum filter!

We had a system in the Army, when looking at a job to be done, of grading its embuggerance factor, from one to ten!

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Donnygeoff suggested yesterday that we could start other threads apart from the Independence one, and I would like to discuss that fracas with the Haven Bridge, which refused to open, having accepted an advance booking from a vessel which arrived on time.

As far as I have always known the bye-laws, a lifting bridge on a commercial navigation must give priority to vessels, regardless of the state of the road traffic. Another example is the Cross Keys bridge on the A17 at Sutton. If a ship is coming up the Nene to Wisbech, then the bridge opens, regardless of traffic on the trunk road. I have looked at Peel Ports (Gt Yarmouth) instructions for the booking of the bridge and there is nothing there (over a whole page) which mentions any set times of opening, with respect to rush hours. They will even open for you at night, if you want to pay a large fee.

We must remember that the Yare is not like other Broads rivers. It is a maritime navigation to the port of Norwich. That was what Hardley Cross was there for, since it forms the old boundary between the responsibilities of Gt Yarmouth and Norwich, for the upkeep of the river. When the BA was first formed, it was not responsible for the Yare, for this reason, and I am not sure that it is fully responsible even now, in terms of navigation.

Loaded coasters for Norwich had to go up the Yare on a rising tide, so their time of leaving Yarmouth depended on careful timing, regardless of road traffic. On the way back, more often light loaded, they left Norwich at high tide and came down on the ebb. This also meant that they only rarely had to cross each other on the river. This is why vessels have to have priority over road traffic, since it is the state of the tide that counts. This also applies to Independence since her draft means she will want to go up the Yare with the tide.

I suppose the port authority can always fall back on a "technical fault" but that excuse only goes so far. I see this as yet another ancient right of navigation being slowly and surreptitiously swept under the carpet. If the Haven bridge no longer wants to open for pleasure boats, then neither will the railway swing bridges. That would mean the end of the Brundall Navy and of yards such as Brooms.

One wonders whether, if that pilot boat had not demanded a "commercial" passage to Goodchild's yard, whether they would have opened at all for Robin, or whether he would still be stuck there until Monday? I hope that Robin and Griff, when they have had time to catch their breath, will be making their feelings known to Peel Ports? I hope so.

 

Iv a little problem here with this tide thing , if independence arrived at 4.15 pm and the draft was a problem explain how it cat get to brundall when high tide there was around 5pm , the marina is the place where there's a higher percentage of grounding than anywhere on the yare , that leaves just 3/4 of an hr to cross braydon and refill at good child's then at least + 4 hrs of travel up the yare so arriving at around 9 pm 4 hrs after high tide , given the tides prior to her arrival at Yarmouth around the brundall area  it would have been crazy to take her to her mooring in the dark at half tide .

I highly doubt anyone would have got home any earlier had the bridge opened , that said this thread is sort of not about the right of navigation in my eyes its far more personal but that's just my opinion and no doubt at all one which will see a huge amount of backlash heading my way