The Haven Bridge

[JohnK]

(other than not making the booked time)
Actually JohnK - Indy did make the booked time, both of them.  She was ready in all respects for the 1615 lift on Monday and the 0730 lift on Tuesday.  Both these booked times were set by the bridge control office which Indy agreed to and complied with
Griff

Sorry, my bad, thought it had been booked for 13:30 and then changed.


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[MauriceMynah]

I rather think that at this time, when there is a possibility that things might be taken further, detailed discussion on public forum may be counter productive to Robin and/or Griff.

Without wishing to sound like a thread squasher, I feel that whilst we might talk in general terms about such situations, this incident in particular might be best steered clear of for now.

It is a very delicate balance that needs to be achieved between the freedoms of fair debate and the risks  of compromising (albeit accidently) another members situation.

Just my take on it, what think you?

[Islander]

Morning Griff, thanks for your reply. Didn't expect you to so late at night.

Although this problem of Haven bridge has no direct effect for me. I find the attitude of bridge control to be unacceptable. Just as well you didn't all have prepaid train tickets.

Colin

MM, I fully agree.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I rather think that at this time, when there is a possibility that things might be taken further, detailed discussion on public forum may be counter productive to Robin and/or Griff.

Without wishing to sound like a thread squasher, I feel that whilst we might talk in general terms about such situations, this incident in particular might be best steered clear of for now.

It is a very delicate balance that needs to be achieved between the freedoms of fair debate and the risks  of compromising (albeit accidently) another members situation.

Just my take on it, what think you?

Agreed

[Snowy]

Also agreed, Robin and Griff are probably already on the “don’t let through under any circumstances” list 

[JennyMorgan]

Lowestoft, a man made harbour, does restrict, quite reasonably, bridge lifts during rush hours and this is generally accepted and respected by local boaters. I suspect that it's the same at Yarmouth. However Yarmouth appears to have a long running reluctance when it comes to private craft, a resistance that predates VHF. I don't see a problem in questioning the attitude of Bridge Control in this instance, Robin's experience is regretfully not unique. Possibly that sets the tone for some folk's manner when using VHF.

[grendel]

along with anyone else with a London or Yorkshire accent now 

[Meantime]

Whilst the bridge lifts are down to Peel and beyond the control of The BA, I would have thought they have a vested interest, after all anything that needs the bridges lifted, is generally going to be paying a fairly hefty short visit, or annual toll! Persuade enough of them that the Broads are not worth visiting, or too much hassle to stay on long term and the toll account could shrink a fair bit.

[Davydine]

As a matter of interest, was there any VHF communication  between Indi and the bridge or was it all done by phone? I am just wondering if they treat things differently by VHF as that is how the pilot boat communicated with them.

I know you were there in time on the Monday afternoon, but had time been tight, would you have been able to transit haven bridge first and pick Robin up on the other side?

On a totally different subject, if you want to see how bridge opening should be done, may I humbly suggest a trip to Holland, they have no problem lifting bridges for boats, pleasure or commercial, fabulous country for boating on inland waterways.

David

[BroadAmbition]

Sorry, my bad, thought it had been booked for 13:30 and then changed.

It originally was JohnK.  Robin rang them hours n hours before 1330 to cancel the lift so as to not inconvenience them and show normal due consideration.  Annoyingly they did not reciprocate

Griff

[BroadAmbition]

As a matter of interest, was there any VHF communication  between Indi and the bridge or was it all done by phone? I am just wondering if they treat things differently by VHF as that is how the pilot boat communicated with them.

Yes, I first contacted Gya harbour master on VHF  then on clearing the piers approaching Haven I contacted Haven and Breydon both on VHF.   Phone calls commenced after 1617, and again Tuesday morning (Which were ignored) no further VHF comms, until the pilot boat got the bridge lifted by VHF request

I know you were there in time on the Monday afternoon, but had time been tight, would you have been able to transit haven bridge first and pick Robin up on the other side?

Yes that was an option if we were late, but we arrived at 1600 and went alongside so Robin could board, both options turned out to be immaterial seeing as it wasn't opened

Griff

  

[JohnK]

Sorry, my bad, thought it had been booked for 13:30 and then changed.
It originally was JohnK.  Robin rang them hours n hours before 1330 to cancel the lift so as to not inconvenience them and show normal due consideration.  Annoyingly they did not reciprocate
Griff

Ah ok, bad choice of words by me. That’s what I thought had happened and what I meant to convey.
What are the rules regarding rescheduling your slot. Could they say you’ve missed yours and you have to give 24 hours to your next one? I’m not saying that would be morally ok but would it be within their rules?
I think they have to move people from the port to open Haven, I think I heard three people.


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[BroadAmbition]

Monday evening at around 1630 I got to thinking if only I had just used fenders on the quay, got Robin onboard immediately then put Indy mid river stemming the tide waiting for the bridge to lift, they just might well have done so.  That would have meant stemming the tide for 15 mins - not a problem but what a waste of fuel not to mention hogging the river if any other craft appeared that didn't need the bridge lifting.  Maybe I made a wrong decision there

Griff

[BroadAmbition]

What are the rules regarding rescheduling your slot. Could they say you’ve missed yours and you have to give 24 hours to your next one? I’m not saying that would be morally ok but would it be within their rules?

It could be well be.  If so they should have said so. They didn't,  they confirmed to Robin that they would lift the bridge at 1615, we naively believed them, why wouldn't we?

If they had said Robin needed another 24 x Hrs notice then  fine, just be honest and TELL US!  That would have given me the option to seek a safe haven en-route instead of the battle we went through, alternatively I could have reduced speed and made the journey more comfortable for my crew.  I would have had other options to consider, Lowestoft being an obvious one.  But I didn't need to as we had been informed if we made 1615 we could go through.  We were were doggedly pressing on.  I had promised Robin months ago that I would deliver his boat safely to her new mooring.  Robin also of course is a mate not a customer.   I had a promise to keep and I would do my utmost to keep it.

Griff

 

[deebee29]

No need to beat yourself up about this Griff, you didn’t let Robin down. You did everything within your power to make sure your promise was delivered.

What happened was out of your control.

I understand how you must feel though, I feel the same way if I promise to do anything for others and something goes wrong.

[BroadAmbition]

No need to beat yourself up about this Griff,

Thanks, I'm not.  There a few others that I would happily 'Beat Up' though

Griff

[Davydine]

1 hour ago, BroadAmbition said:

As a matter of interest, was there any VHF communication  between Indi and the bridge or was it all done by phone? I am just wondering if they treat things differently by VHF as that is how the pilot boat communicated with them.

Yes, I first contacted Gya harbour master on VHF  then on clearing the piers approaching Haven I contacted Haven and Breydon both on VHF.   Phone calls commenced after 1617, and again Tuesday morning (Which were ignored) no further VHF comms, until the pilot boat got the bridge lifted by VHF request

I know you were there in time on the Monday afternoon, but had time been tight, would you have been able to transit haven bridge first and pick Robin up on the other side?

Yes that was an option if we were late, but we arrived at 1600 and went alongside so Robin could board, both options turned out to be immaterial seeing as it wasn't opened

Griff

  

Thanks Griff, it seems very poor service from the bridge operators, I saw your arrival,  I had been visiting a customer nearby and, although I don't know any of you, couldn't resist going to wish Robin well in person. 

They really do need to explain what happened. As you were talking to them as you came through the harbour the bridge could have been raised and you could have passed straight through with minimal delay to anyone and ahead of the 16:15 deadline they had given you.

Always had two way vhf communication from the dutch bridge operators (in English! ) and they were always opened as advertised. We had to stooge around occasionally for a train to cross but the service was excellent.

[BroadAmbition]

Oh and Btw - I'm not putting up an argument here with any forumite,  just answering questions or replying to points and telling it simply - Like it is (Was)

Griff

[Smoggy]

Just to add a bit of balance here, I used bridge lifts at haven a good few times last year and each time they were great, one time we had to be called through as were waiting in the flow for the light to go green but the lock was jammed so the light wouldn't change, I've always been told by port ops that certain hours are avoided for traffic reasons and once they dropped it back down for an ambulance which I won't complain about but I've always found them on station waiting for me and had good comms over vhf.

I don't think they ever lift while you are moored up but they call you on the vhf to get you on station so they can lift.

I've found the bridges at lowestoft good too as long as you aim for the normal opening times and book in advance, it's normally mutford lock that goes wrong.

VHF comms to reedham bridge is another matter, I've been ignored by them many times and had it start to open as soon as I tie up to the waiting pontoon, sound a bit like anchors.

[Hockham Admiral]

3 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

I rather think that at this time, when there is a possibility that things might be taken further, detailed discussion on public forum may be counter productive to Robin and/or Griff.

Without wishing to sound like a thread squasher, I feel that whilst we might talk in general terms about such situations, this incident in particular might be best steered clear of for now.

It is a very delicate balance that needs to be achieved between the freedoms of fair debate and the risks  of compromising (albeit accidently) another members situation.

Just my take on it, what think you?

John, hi.

It can be moved into full members  if Vaughan, Robin & Griff wish?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Hockham Admiral said:

John, hi.

It can be moved into full members  if Vaughan, Robin & Griff wish?

Not exactly what John suggested really , but better than on open forum I guess.

[Smoggy]

As long as everything said about the actions of peel ports is true does it need moving?

[Hylander]

The best of it is,  not just two days ago on the local television  news Anglia,   there was a special report all about Great Yarmouth applying for a grant from the Heritage Lottery.     All this flies in the face of some poor souls in Great Yarmouth that are desperately trying to promote tourism to the area.      I feel they are going two steps forward and three back at times , despite their best efforts.      Visiting pleasure craft should be made more than welcome.

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, grendel said:

along with anyone else with a London or Yorkshire accent now 

Good job I can fit under at all tides then 

[Meantime]

17 minutes ago, Hockham Admiral said:

John, hi.

It can be moved into full members  if Vaughan, Robin & Griff wish?

It would be a shame to see it moved into full members since the trip has resulted in so many new members and people following the forum. Those new members will not be full members yet!

Although as suggested, whilst Griff is talking to the port authority, it is probably best if everyone keeps this topic about Haven bridge in general and avoids specifics related to this one passage.

Just my opinion off course.