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Worth His Salt


Vaughan

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I used this expression in a post yesterday and I wondered if others would be interested in its origins. Excuse me if you knew already!

In Roman times, salt was valued like gold as it was the only way to preserve food. There were huge salt fields in the Rhone Delta, on the coast of the Med, where the tidal range and the climate were perfect for it.

When the Romans conquered the area they enclosed the salt fields with a customs boundary, guarded it with their army and imposed a heavy tax duty on the sale and transport of salt. There was even a guarded salt road which ran up the Rhone valley into the centre of France.

The Roman soldiers who were garrisoned there, were paid half of their wages in salt. This became the word "salary" that we still use today.

So a good soldier, who did his duty, was "worth his salt".

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A square meal, Naval expression, square plates that fitted into square boxes on a table to stop your meal sliding about.

Brass monkeys, Naval expression, a Powder Monkey was the boy who fetched the gunpowder for  cannon, a wooden monkey was a bit of wood the held cannon balls from srolling around, When they introduced brass monkeys to replace the wooden ones the temperature differential on different metals still allowed the cannon balls to escape sometimes.

A balls up,  Sailing , when a ship runs aground, it's supposed to haul 3 balls up in a verticle line  to signify you are aground.

A Cock up, you have the cock feather ( the longer one) on your arrow in the wrong place on your bow.

 Sleep tight, old time beds used rope strung between the frames, if the rope got loose,  you rolled into the middle, tightening the rope reduced this.

Chance your arm, military, take a risk that might mean you lose your stripes,

Cold shoulder, to give a visitor a cold cut of meat instead of a hot meal.

Flash in the pan, your musket power just went flash in the pan leading to the charge, the charge didn't ignite.

 

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A sailor on his way to bed will say he is going turn in, which refers to getting into his hammock.

So what about" OK"? A common expression, but where does it come from? The initials don't mean anything.

There are one or two versions of this, so what's yours?

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38 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Brass monkeys, Naval expression, a Powder Monkey was the boy who fetched the gunpowder for  cannon, a wooden monkey was a bit of wood the held cannon balls from srolling around, When they introduced brass monkeys to replace the wooden ones the temperature differential on different metals still allowed the cannon balls to escape sometimes

In actual fact the cold enough to freeze a brass monkey was due to the differences in thermal expansion, when it got cold the cannon balls would contract, settling the brass monkey tighter, thus when it warmed up the brass monkey was frozen to the cannon balls, by the expansion

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5 hours ago, Vaughan said:

So what about" OK"? A common expression, but where does it come from? The initials don't mean anything.

Well, bein' as how nun 'er yew lot hint got nuthin' ter say about it (please note the Norfolk triple negative) here is the story as I have always heard it.

It is appropriate to mention the Norfolk dialect as there is a region of south west France which still speaks Occitain and is similar, in its heritage, to the ancient province of Wessex, which never really existed as such but all its inhabitants were fiercely proud to live there and spoke a lot of old squit that no-one else understood.

This region is known as the Languedoc (langue for tongue, meaning language, and OC for Occitain). The people have always been proud of their heritage and used to paint the letters OC all over the place, on walls, trees and the front door of the town hall. They still do now, on road signs!

In the 13th century, when the English soldiers arrived with the Black Prince during the Albigensian Crusades and spent a few years trying unsuccessfully to take the fortress of Carcassonne, they saw "OC" written all around them. In the old language of Occitain the C was "hard" so it sounded like a K.

The story has it that the soldiers took this expression back to England, saying that they had been "OK", and this then crossed the Atlantic several centuries later.

OK - if you don't believe this, then what is your alternative? What does OK actually mean?

As a footnote, a change in French regional administration last year means that the whole of this part of southwest France is now called "Occitainie". The locals are delighted!

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This is a good subject, I love this stuff.

To be taken aback I believe is also derived from nautical terminology. If the wind veers 180 degrees suddenly under sail it is the sailing equivalent of putting on the emergency brake, a ship will shudder, perhaps lose a mast, even break up.. it will certainly be taken aback.

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Well anyone can Google it, can't they? I did say that there were several versions!

I notice that almost all the above are American and therefore several centuries later.

I think I still prefer my version. Has a bit more Mediaeval romance to it!

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17 minutes ago, Ray said:

a ship will shudder, perhaps lose a mast, even break up.. it will certainly be taken aback.

This is a bit off topic but then it's my thread, so there! This reminds me of what Standley Bushell, a well known Norwich solicitor, assured me was a true story :

One very foggy morning off Yarmouth, a drifter coming out of the harbour was in collision with a large coaster on its way in. There was quite a lot of damage and the case came up in court in Yarmouth. The defence counsel was interviewing the drifter skipper and said "Now, Mr Blogg, when you came out of the harbour and suddenly saw this coaster coming the other way out of the fog, weren't you rather surprised?"

Skipper Blogg replied "Surprised?? You could have buggered me through me oilskins!"

The defence council swung round to the judge and said "What my client is trying to say Your Honour, is that he was somewhat taken aback!"

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1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

 

Skipper Blogg replied "Surprised?? You could have buggered me through me oilskins!"

The defence council swung round to the judge and said "What my client is trying to say Your Honour, is that he was somewhat taken aback!"

Hope that they weren't Yarmouth Store's premium grade with triple layer crotch reinforcement. 

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17 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Hope that they weren't Yarmouth Store's premium grade with triple layer crotch reinforcement. 

You mean the ones you could stand in but couldn't bloody walk in them

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On 06/03/2018 at 10:25, Wussername said:

Vaughan do you know the bishop of Norwich?

Andrew

At one time the nobility sat at the 'high table' and their commoner servants at lower trestle tables. Salt was placed in the centre of the high table and only those of rank had access to it. Those less favoured on the lower tables were below (or beneath) the salt.

 

For those above the salt it was common to take port and in doing so it was imperative to pass the port to the left, pouring a glass for your neighbour on your right before you do so.

Ideally, the decanter (vintage port is always decanted because of the extreme level of sediment in the bottle) should never stop its clockwise progress around the table until it is finished.

If the decanter should ever stall it is considered very bad form to ask for it. Instead, you ask the person hogging the decanter: "Do you know the Bishop of Norwich?". If they are au fait with port etiquette they will immediately realise their faux pas and pass along the decanter with an apology. If not, and they answer in the negative, you should say: "He's a terribly good chap, but he always forgets to pass the port."

It is unclear which forgetful and inebriated Bishop of Norwich is responsible for inspiring this particularly part of the etiquette.

Andrew

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Before I reply to Andrew I would just like to thank the Mods for letting me get away with that joke yesterday! I just thought it was time we had a bit of a laugh!

So I was not quite "taken aback" but may have been sailing rather close to the wind!

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On 3/6/2018 at 11:25, Wussername said:

 

Vaughan do you know the bishop of Norwich?

 

 

I hadn't heard of that one, but there are many traditions about the passing of port, most of which come from the Services. My father always said that you should never replace the stopper in the port decanter until everyone has retired from the table. If you do, it is a sign that you are ready for your guests to go home!

Imagine a Regimental Dinner Night, where officers are seated around a polished mahogany table, about 50ft long. The colonel of the regiment sits half way down at one side and at the head, at one end, is the president of the mess committee (PMC), usually a Major. At the other end is the junior lieutenant of the mess, known as the vice president, or "Mr Vice". Once the last course is cleared away, decanters of Port and Madiera are placed in front of the PMC and Mr Vice.

 The PMC and Mr Vice can't actually see each other, for all the regimental silver down the middle of the table, so the PMC has a little hand bell, which he rings. The port then goes up each side of the table, to the left, and when the decanters get to the other end, this means everyone's glass is charged.

The PMC then rings his bell for silence, gets to his feet and calls "Mr Vice, the Queen!". Mr Vice then starts to rise to his feet and discovers that someone has been under the table and tied his shoelaces together. If he manages to get upright, he will reply "Gentlemen, the Queen" and all will rise and toast "the Queen". Everyone sits down, the little bell tinkles and the port circulates once more. After a suitable interval the PMC rings for silence and says "Mr Vice, our Colonel in Chief".

In our regiment, the honorary Colonel was the Duke of Gloucester. Poor Mr Vice has been sitting all night among his fellow lieutenants at the far end of the table, who have all been whispering a dreadful mis-spelling into his ear, so when he rises to his feet, full of Bordeaux and Port, he will be sure to announce "Gentlemen. The GLOOK OF DOSSTER!" 

For which he will find himself in the Adjutant's office in the morning for the award of at least 4 extra duties!

In the Navy they always sit down for the Loyal Toast. This is said to date from Nelson's ships of the line, where you couldn't stand up below decks without banging your head on a beam. There are five senior regiments in the Army which are not required to take the Loyal Toast. This is because, over hundreds of years, they are considered to have proven their loyalty in battle.

If you think this all sounds a bit archaic and out-dated, don't worry - it's all coming out of the defence budget!

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4 minutes ago, Wussername said:

Beware of the Chinese my dear chap. The Chinese Gybe and his old mate Lee Ho!

At our flying club we have "Chinese take-offs":  Wun Wing Lo

For landings we have the "Lufthansa Landing" (main wheels touchdown but rather fast) and the Beethoven Landing.
(Think about his 5th symphony).

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