Advanced Alternator Regulators

[Regulo]

To save hijacking another thread (where this was starting to be discussed) I'm starting this one. Any advice on the advanced alternator regulators mentioned there? What makes are available and any preferences? Problems? Ease of fitting/setting up? As you can see, I know nothing! Reason I ask is that I've just upped my two domestic batteries from 110Ah ones to 142Ah. The old ones were perfectly adequate for the odd weekend or 3/4 day trips, but over two weeks they never got enough charge in them when only running on short trips. That's due to the fridge running 24 hours, 5 hours of telly (Rene, not me!), heating as necessary in spring/autumn. They lasted 4 years, but with the extra capacity I now have, I'd like a bit extra input to recharge them. Alternator is a 65Amp on a Beta 43 engine. Advise away, forumites!

[Guest]

Good thinking Ray , well I can only speak of the ones iv used and I have had one on all boats iv used as for living a float , there's are the sterling units and the type that require the alternator to be modified by the fitting of 2 10amp cables to the brush carrier , only one wire is req BTW but you need to perform a voltage test to determine whether the alternator is positive or negative , it can get tricky with stainless steel brush carriers being able to solder the cables in position , sounds much worse than it is  in truth its pretty easy , they do do the version that doesn't require taking the alternator apart but its more of the folding stuff , lots of other manufactures do them and basically they all do the same thing ie they trick the alternator and bypass the units inbuilt regulator forcing the alternator to charge at a higher voltage , this is good news as it keeps the battery plates clean and charges the battery to 100% not the normal 80-90% a standard alternator would do hence giving you more battery capacity and gets to that stage much faster .

Downsides , well with lead acid battery's topping up the battery is essential as fast charging costs water though in practice a check once every couple of months is fine and topping up wise maybe once every 6 months but not a lot to be honest , other battery types can't be charged as fast ie gell agm etc and the unit is set up to cope by the user ( very easy to do ) before fitting to suit the battery being charged .

Advantage's  , less time recharging , much enhanced battery life , more capacity as the battery is fully charged , full automatic operation .

Disadvantages , cost , topping up battery occasionally ( lead acid only ) and possibly increased wear on the drive belt ( but in practice its really not an issue ) oh n they will rob a bit of HP off the engine as you get  nothing for free in this world but if you notice it I'll be highly surprised .

Worth doing , darn right they are n if every hire boat had one there would be much less need to run engines at moorings as the battery's would be much more changed on arrival if not fully charged , and less likely for battery's to need changing while the boat is on hire as they would have a longer service life .

 

[BroadAmbition]

We run a Beta 50hp on 'B.A' The manufacturers supply a standard 65 amp alternator, we opted for an optional extra 100amp alternator fitted at the factory so we are running two of them on separate belts - the 100amp is on a flat wider belt, in fact it's the original belt which has now done over 2'500 x Hrs.  The 65amp belt has been changed once to date.  They are wired through a Sterling system which sorts it all out.  We did not do any modifications to the alternators as the Beta came with it's own tailor made wiring loom. There are six 120amp leisure batteries onboard (Sealed lead/acid) and 1 x cranking battery.  We also have a pair of solar panels that top up the leisure batteries only - can't report on their performance as they are a recent upgrade and have yet to be used in anger.

Hope this helps,

Griff

[Regulo]

Thanks, both. I've done a bit more research, and found the installation instructions for the Sterling regulator. A bit of faffing about with soldering wires into the alternator, but if it "does what it says on the tin", it would be a worthwhile exercise, I think.

Griff, my standard 65A alternator is run from a wide belt, not a standard V belt, is yours the same?

[Vaughan]

I agree with what has been said, but we should also consider not over-charging the batteries in a short period of 2 or 3 hours.

A lead/acid battery can be charged at its 10 hour rate + 70%, so a 100AH battery can be charged at 10 + 7 = 17 amps continuous. If you do more than that you will overheat it, cause it to "gas off" and quite soon bend the plates.

In Regulo's case, his new battery bank will be 394 A/Hours total and this will accept a continuous charge rate of 67 amps.

So it would be fine to fit a 90 amp Prestolite alternator (which the Beta will accept) as you will never get 90 amps out of it anyway! Their normal maximum will be about 70A, when charging batteries that have been used overnight and this will very quickly drop, as the volts build up.

[Regulo]

Hi, Vaughan, thanks for this input. I have only two batteries on the domestic side of 142Ah each = 284Ah, plus the starter battery of 135Ah. Fed through a sterling "no loss" electronic splitter. According to the Sterling Advanced Regulator bumf, these things regulate the charging rate depending on the state of charge of the batteries, in some 4-stage way. They can also be configured for different battery types. Are you saying it might be detrimental to battery life to use such a system?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Regulo said:

Hi, Vaughan, thanks for this input. I have only two batteries on the domestic side of 142Ah each = 284Ah, plus the starter battery of 135Ah. Fed through a sterling "no loss" electronic splitter. According to the Sterling Advanced Regulator bumf, these things regulate the charging rate depending on the state of charge of the batteries, in some 4-stage way. They can also be configured for different battery types. Are you saying it might be detrimental to battery life to use such a system?

Its actually beneficial to use one , and yep the electronics work out the state of change and adjust the charging time appropriately , they in no way increase the amps coming out of the alternator they can't do that all the do is increase the voltage a bit , there are various safe guards built into the unit for excess battery temperature and unit failure , mine has also a switch on the signal wire ( described in the instructions) which turns the advanced unit off .

Basically they are 4 stage smart charger that will extend battery life rather than reduce it and give the battery's s much healthier charge regime .

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Regulo said:

Thanks, both. I've done a bit more research, and found the installation instructions for the Sterling regulator. A bit of faffing about with soldering wires into the alternator, but if it "does what it says on the tin", it would be a worthwhile exercise, I think.

Griff, my standard 65A alternator is run from a wide belt, not a standard V belt, is yours the same?

The soldering of the 2x cables Ray is extremely straight forward , standard 13 mm vee belt's will run alternators up to around 100 amps without breaking or excessive slipping or so iv found in practice , that said flat belts are much better .

[Vaughan]

It still means that on the basic calculation of amp/hours, you can happily increase your alternator from 65 to 90 amps.

Electronic charge splitter/regulators are most beneficial and they do indeed do what Ricardo says on the tin!

Crown Cruisers built all their modern boats with the X-SPLIT, which comes in various numbers of inputs and outputs and is very reliable. Available from Peachments in Brundall.

[BroadAmbition]

65amp - V belt,  100amp - flat belt

Griff

[Regulo]

Vaughan, yes, the X-split, that's what I've got - couldn't remember the name offhand.

Griff, ta for the info, that's odd then. Why would I have a flat drive belt for the standard alternator? I definitely declined the option of the 100 Amp alternator when Jason fitted the engine. I'd better have a look and see exactly what I do have!

[BroadAmbition]

Why would I have a flat drive belt for the standard alternator?

Dunno, maybe Jason thought you might increase your battery bank at some future stage and put extra load on the 65amp so he specified the flat belt, belts n braces perhaps?

Griff

P.S I bet in hindsight you wished you had taken up the option of the 100amp !

[FairTmiddlin]

Multi vee belts or flat as you call them, have almost three times the contact surface of an ordinary V belt.

V Belts usually inly contact the pulley in an area of about one quarter of an inch. But a Vee belt with all those ridges contacts about three quarters of an inch. Less chance off slippage under load which is why power hungry modern cars with all of their gadgetry use them.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, FairTmiddlin said:

Multi vee belts or flat as you call them, have almost three times the contact surface of an ordinary V belt.

V Belts usually inly contact the pulley in an area of about one quarter of an inch. But a Vee belt with all those ridges contacts about three quarters of an inch. Less chance off slippage under load which is why power hungry modern cars with all of their gadgetry use them.

 

Probably depends on where you did your apprenticeship but V belt was a single v belt, Multi V was two or three single V belts on the same pulley and a Poly V was the flat belt with typically 8 mini grooves or otherwise known as a Serpentine belt..

[annv]

There are two ways to alter charging rate of a alternator one you solder a wire to brush box before regulator this would invalidate your warranty if any. cant be done on some later alternators or 2nd way is to run + cable to a box that fools regulator into charging its maximum,Sterling do one that you can connect two alternators together for even more power,this does not invalidate any warranty as it doesn't interfere with unit,it's also very easy to connect no soldering or removable of unit Bth units check temp of battery bank and adjust charging accordingly to not overheat batteries they also adjust charging rate for different types of battery, you can reduce topping up of cells by using the next lower charing rate. The rule of thumb is one v belt will run max 43 amps one serrated belt will run 65 amps twin belts which have to be matched pair 75 amps single flat ribbed starts with five groves 120 amps 7 or more groves 200 amps, to much tension on belt will wear front crank pulley. John

[FairTmiddlin]

38 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

Probably depends on where you did your apprenticeship

Apprenticeship 50 years ago now Blooming hell time goes so fast

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, annv said:

There are two ways to alter charging rate of a alternator one you solder a wire to brush box before regulator this would invalidate your warranty if any. cant be done on some later alternators or 2nd way is to run + cable to a box that fools regulator into charging its maximum,Sterling do one that you can connect two alternators together for even more power,this does not invalidate any warranty as it doesn't interfere with unit,it's also very easy to connect no soldering or removable of unit Bth units check temp of battery bank and adjust charging accordingly to not overheat batteries they also adjust charging rate for different types of battery, you can reduce topping up of cells by using the next lower charing rate. The rule of thumb is one v belt will run max 43 amps one serrated belt will run 65 amps twin belts which have to be matched pair 75 amps single flat ribbed starts with five groves 120 amps 7 or more groves 200 amps, to much tension on belt will wear front crank pulley. John

Too much tension can also cause a fatigue fracture of the crankshaft

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, annv said:

There are two ways to alter charging rate of a alternator one you solder a wire to brush box before regulator this would invalidate your warranty if any. cant be done on some later alternators or 2nd way is to run + cable to a box that fools regulator into charging its maximum,Sterling do one that you can connect two alternators together for even more power,this does not invalidate any warranty as it doesn't interfere with unit,it's also very easy to connect no soldering or removable of unit Bth units check temp of battery bank and adjust charging accordingly to not overheat batteries they also adjust charging rate for different types of battery, you can reduce topping up of cells by using the next lower charing rate. The rule of thumb is one v belt will run max 43 amps one serrated belt will run 65 amps twin belts which have to be matched pair 75 amps single flat ribbed starts with five groves 120 amps 7 or more groves 200 amps, to much tension on belt will wear front crank pulley. John

Hang on a minute that's not quite correct , for a start the unit that doesn't require splitting the alternator costs 3x the price , the only alternators it doesn't work on are brush less ones and that goes for both the cheap unit and the one 3x the price .

Both units monitor battery voltage and temperature as a matter of cause in their installation , true yiu can on the more expensive version gang 2 alternator's together but they then need splitting to charge the various banks of Battery's .

How do I know , we that's easy via installing both units on various boats and more than one conversation with Charles sterling himself n trust me he knows his stuff he really does n he doesn't mix his words either as I found out the fist time i spoke to him .

[Regulo]

Thanks, everyone. I'm going to get the Sterling Pro Reg BW. I'm not averse to a bit of mechanical and electrical fiddling, so that holds no fears. Good advice from you all, as expected!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Regulo said:

Thanks, everyone. I'm going to get the Sterling Pro Reg BW. I'm not averse to a bit of mechanical and electrical fiddling, so that holds no fears. Good advice from you all, as expected!

Good choice Ray , trust me its easy even team dog could do it  , don't ignore Charles sterling re the 2 negative wires ( not that you would obviously ) but they run as a pair but I'm sure you realise why that is , mines a pro reg B  shows how old it is ( 6 yrs) n still on too of its game n doing a sterling job ( pun intended ) 

[Regulo]

Bit beyond team pigeon then? I'd be happy to fall between Team Dog and Team Pigeon on the intelligence scale! 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Regulo said:

Bit beyond team pigeon then? I'd be happy to fall between Team Dog and Team Pigeon on the intelligence scale! 

Na your far higher than team dog he only works for biscuits , team pigeon , she's the boss n yea that's right team pigeon is a girl  having laid 2 eggs the week before this one , hence the instant name change to Davina 

[Regulo]

OK, just back from fitting this Sterling thingy. What a difference! Although we didn't run the batteries down too much, they re-charged much, much faster than before. I'm a very happy chappie.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Regulo said:

OK, just back from fitting this Sterling thingy. What a difference! Although we didn't run the batteries down too much, they re-charged much, much faster than before. I'm a very happy chappie.

Excellent news , I honestly don't know why more folk don't use them all my boats have been fitted with them as they charge better , charge faster , and a much better life for the battery's to say nothing of the increased level of electric available from the same size battery bank , all you have to do is keep an eye on the fluid usage with open lead acid battery's but in reality its not a problem .

Happy days Ray happy days 

[Regulo]

On 02/05/2018 at 00:44, BroadAmbition said:

Why would I have a flat drive belt for the standard alternator?

Dunno, maybe Jason thought you might increase your battery bank at some future stage and put extra load on the 65amp so he specified the flat belt, belts n braces perhaps?

Griff

P.S I bet in hindsight you wished you had taken up the option of the 100amp !

Griff, for info, I've got the 65 Amp alternator with a flat belt. Who knows? Or cares? .