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So, What Would You Do?


Davydine

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40 minutes ago, TheQ said:

4) The master of a manually propelled vessel or a quanted vessel underway which is less than 4.5 metres (14 feet 9 inches) in length shall ensure that there is ready at hand in the vessel an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light and shall cause such torch or lantern to be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.

Thank you for that Q. A bit complicated isn't it? What I have quoted used to be the rule for all vessels under 50ft, in international Colregs, pre 1964, so this is why boats on the Broads never bothered with nav lights.

I assume they mean a masthead light is different from an all round white light although they don't make it very clear. A masthead light would therefore be a "steaming" light, which shows through the bow to 2 points (22.5 degrees) abaft the beam on each side. The same arc as both the red and green lights together.

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2 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

We shouldnt be hanging any hirers or privately owned boats skippers, educate them yes but hang or try them no .

I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand about after dark.

 

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3 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

I'm not sure what is printed in the hirers manual, but the byelaws which take precedent over any hire yard rules, are that Navigation lights apply from sunset to sunrise.

String'em up then.

 

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17 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I am sorry if the above sounds flippant but I return to the fact that the boatyard is not responsible for the civil behaviour of its customers, any more than Hertz car rental would be.

 

 

However and this is the important bit, any damage caused by a driver hiring from Hertz, even if they were drunk, would still be covered by the third party part of Hertz's insurance, even though they didn't give permission and probably even explicitly prohibit it, in their terms of hire. Whilst Hertz cannot be responsible for the actions of the people they hire to, under the UK Road Traffic Laws, they still have to insure against damage that their hirer could cause to a third party. They chose to make money from hiring that car, they have to accept and insure against the risks that could be created by that hire.

I remain adamant that similar third party cover must apply if a company takes the decision to hire it's boat to a customer. Whilst they may not be responsible for the actions of the hirer, they MUST be responsible for ensuring that third party cover is in place to cover any incident involving their boat, no matter how caused, with or without their express permission.

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15 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

String'em up then.

 

Why oh why are people wanting lynch mobs for hirers, there could be a very valid reason for a hire boat moving in darkness, a medical emergency on a boat mud weighted moored wild with no access other that water etc etc ...

Lets quit this trial by forum, its not nice, and mostly its all heresay and opinions any way. So why not wait until full facts are known.

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18 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

and my prop last time it came out the water

How much of that came from running through peoples line when they had them in the water????? Bound 2 Please came out this last winter, and not a single strand of line round its prop. She hadnt been out for over 3 1/2 years to my knowledge maybe more.

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4 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

How much of that came from running through peoples line when they had them in the water????? Bound 2 Please came out this last winter, and not a single strand of line round its prop. She hadnt been out for over 3 1/2 years to my knowledge maybe more.

To the best of my knowledge none as I always go out of my way to avoid fishermen, despite the way they like to hide in the reeds in camouflage gear at times. I know most of the popular fishing spots on the rivers and do keep a good look out.

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59 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

To the best of my knowledge none as I always go out of my way to avoid fishermen, despite the way they like to hide in the reeds in camouflage gear at times. I know most of the popular fishing spots on the rivers and do keep a good look out.

Maybe they hide in camouflage gear as they haven't got a licence as I can't see how it would improve the chances of catching a fish.

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10 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

Maybe they hide in camouflage gear as they haven't got a licence as I can't see how it would improve the chances of catching a fish.

It's always puzzled me, but surely trying to make yourself conspicuous to any oncoming boats is the way forward?

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4 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

So you and your tackle can be seen, and your line doesn't get run over.:default_icon_rolleyes:

Can understand not wanting to show "your tackle" unless you really have something to brag about.

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7 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

So you and your tackle can be seen, and your line doesn't get run over.:default_icon_rolleyes:

But at the end of the day the rivers are for all, why should anglers change habit's that were established long before motorised craft were thought of.

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14 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

But at the end of the day the rivers are for all, why should anglers change habit's that were established long before motorised craft were thought of.

Well then anglers must be prepared to be seen at the last minute, and potentially have their line accidentally run over, or are you saying that motorised craft shouldn't use the rivers in case they accidentally run over a line cast by someone hiding in the reeds? You cannot have it both ways :default_icon_rolleyes: Make yourself visible, or don't your choice, but as you say, the rivers are for all, so surely the sensible option is to change the habit so you can be seen?

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11 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

Or maybe boats slow down so that anglers have time to bring in their lines... works both ways

Technically it doesn't, as long as the motor or sailing boat is within speed limits. It's up to the angler to remove his lines Broads regulation 29(3) applies

 

Broads regulation 29

(3) a(1) Subject to paragraph (2) no person shall conduct any fishing or any associated activity from a power-driven or sailing vessel which is underway or cause or permit any net or fishing line to hang from such a vessel into the water whilst the vessel is underway.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to a vessel which is:
(a) engaged in the handling of licensed eel nets; or
(b) under the control of the National Rivers Authority in connection with its fishery duties.
(3) Any person fishing from a boat or the bank shall show reasonable consideration to any other person using the navigation area and shall ensure that his rod or line does not obstruct the passage of a vessel along a channel.

 I would add it's very hard to see a black or dark green rod with line that's designed to be invisible, when having to be aware of all the other boats around.. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

Or maybe boats slow down so that anglers have time to bring in their lines... works both ways

Off course that's based upon the assumption they were speeding in the first place! From your dig about light bulbs on another thread, to your attitude on this thread you seem intent on winding me up. Guess what? it isn't going to work. No teddies out of the pram here, go and find someone else, to take whatever frustrations you have, out on. :default_biggrin::default_beerchug:

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The only major fallout I’ve had on a boat was with a fisherman (keep reading before the flaming starts )
I was on the river Trent pulling a Ringo with a couple of teenagers on it at about 12mph or so. I had all permissions / licenses / insurance / qualifications.
About 200m ahead a boat was coming towards me on my side of the river. No problem, the river was wide, I went over to the left. So did the other boat. No problem, I came off the plane and went back to the right bank. Then I saw fishing lines in front of me. I went into reverse and the Ringo came up behind me (jetboat so no prop danger). Then the fisherman started shouting and swearing at me. That’s when I lost it officer
Was it my fault? Absolutely, at least in a big part. But it could have been avoided if I (or my spotter) had seen the camouflaged fisherman sitting between two bushes earlier.

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The thread started as what would you do if you saw another boat cruising after dark;  My position here is that unless it  directly affected me in any way like it hit my boat...... Answer, nothing at all.

As for fishing rods in the path of passing boats; My position here is "give and take", if the river is wide enough, the boat should deviate around the fishing rod & line. If the river is not wide enough for that then the fisherman should move the rod and line so the boat can pass without snagging it. Benefit of the doubt goes in favor of the boat on the basis it is bigger.

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I'd agree with Philosophical, however, as a sailor most of the time. The problem comes when the sailor needs the whole river to sail in as he's tacking or due to wind shadow needs the fishermans side of the river. Many times I've had fishermen shout at me saying you can use the rest of the river (along with other words).

 As to Hire boats or private boats navigating at night, would I report them?  Probably not if they are behaving sensibly. I have reported a dory about speeding along at night, the boys, dad wasn't happy when I told him...:default_biggrin:

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6 minutes ago, TheQ said:

I'd agree with Philosophical, however, as a sailor most of the time. The problem comes when the sailor needs the whole river to sail in as he's tacking or due to wind shadow needs the fishermans side of the river. Many times I've had fishermen shout at me saying you can use the rest of the river (along with other words).

 As to Hire boats or private boats navigating at night, would I report them?  Probably not if they are behaving sensibly. I have reported a dory about speeding along at night, the boys, dad wasn't happy when I told him...:default_biggrin:

I have to admit I've not sailed on the broads for 30+ odd years, but can well imagine the scenario you describe.

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If I want to help my fellow water users (in this case the Anglers) it would help if I knew exactly what the anglers wanted me to do.

If they are casting well over towards the other bank, do they want me to cruise over their swim, Or close to them? Do they want me to change my engine revs so close to the fish they are after, given that the fish will have sensed me approaching for ages before hand.. If they wish that I should take ANY action to assist them, is it not reasonable that they should make it clear to all boaters just whereabouts they are. Sorry Bound2please, but I'm having difficulty seeing your side of the discussion here.

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