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Tragedy at Acle

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There is a total sadness over this particular death and although details are sketchy at the moment it again brings the reality that boating, although enjoyable, requires a sensible approach as it is dangerous

Our thoughts are of course with the family concerned.

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Its the fourth this year - speaking to someone today it appears the man was pulled into the water where he then suffered a massive heart atack and later died in hospital. The over riding message which again has to be re-iterated is the bouyancy aids and life jackets save lives and as this topic comes up regularly, it comes down to personal choice everytime, however the point is, no matter how well acquainted you may feel with a boat or the water, you must make that risk assessment...

..What amazes me is that whenever we post photos of those doing daft things there is a large number of people who criticize us for doing so, and yet in my view, if by doing so just one person puts IPE on just one extra time, it may be just enough to save their life!

A sad case, but as the points and the story emerges, probably wholly avoidable. And what makes this story worse is that it looks as if not one member of the family took one bit of notice on their 'how too from Summercraft' and left it all up to the deceased as whilst he clung to a rope as the boat swang out into the river, the rest of the family did little to help. Questions must also be asked as to why the boat was also trying to moor up UNDER the bridge too?

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I think a big well done to Phil is in order even though the man was still pronounced dead with the aid of first aid from phil in a situation that may well present it self in the future having a riverside pub manager who is trained in first aid might save a life next time round.... unfortunately not this time

i think all riverside pubs restaurant businesses should maybe adopt the approach of training staff in first aid when it comes to rivers/water people of all ages races ect can always become in danger it might save a life you dont think about it but its times like these you do....

thinking about it am going to look at doing a course before out VIP's holiday if i can get something sorted in time it costs nothing to save a life what if you were in that families situation just waiting for the services to arriver there fast but its a long wait till they arrive

http://www.firstaidtrainingassociates.co.uk/

Jonny

P.S sorry for the rant

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I think a big well done to Phil is in order even though the man was still pronounced dead with the aid of first aid from phil in a situation that may well present it self in the future having a riverside pub manager who is trained in first aid might save a life next time round

Johnny - where did you get this information? as Anglia TV said - "He was pronounced dead on arrival at hospital" as, the mis-reporting in the news paper that the para-medic pronounced him dead is incorrect as they cannot pronoune anyone dead..

As for your second point, in order to hold a license to sell alcohol on a licensed premises you must also now hold a first aid certificate and/or have someone who is qualified to that minimum standard on the premises and has been the case for some time - also if the establishment is frequented by more than 40 people then there has to be an SIA licensed person on the premises too - who must also be qualified... However, as this guy wasn't in the pub I'm sure that those in the pub were totally unaware of the commotion outside - until it was too late!

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As for your second point, in order to hold a license to sell alcohol on a licensed premises you must also now hold a first aid certificate and/or have someone who is qualified to that minimum standard on the premises and has been the case for some time - also if the establishment is frequented by more than 40 people then there has to be an SIA licensed person on the premises too - who must also be qualified... However, as this guy wasn't in the pub I'm sure that those in the pub were totally unaware of the commotion outside - until it was too late!

yer even if it was to late by the time somebody got there to help you neva know what can happen....

Jonny

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..What amazes me is that whenever we post photos of those doing daft things there is a large number of people who criticize us for doing so, and yet in my view, if by doing so just one person puts IPE on just one extra time, it may be just enough to save their life!

Surely a description of the incident is enough ....... the photos usually prove nothing and act only to embarass/ridicule the subject.

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Ah - just read that - good effort from phil, but the ambulance crew must have had a qualified doctor on board in order to pronounce him dead, as they would not be able to 'confirm' his death as until then he would still be classed as alive..... as up until a qualified doctor says you are dead you are still alive!

A bit odd I know, but I saw the Anglia TV report before reading the article and there are a few differences... Well done to the Kayaker for pulling him to safety - I guess still alive at that point...

Anyway - enough speculation...

..WHEN MOORING UP AND MOVING AROUND ON DECK WEAR PPE!!!

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Ah - just read that - good effort from phil, but the ambulance crew must have had a qualified doctor on board in order to pronounce him dead, as they would not be able to 'confirm' his death as until then he would still be classed as alive..... as up until a qualified doctor says you are dead you are still alive!

A Paramedic can pronounce death to the point of abandoning attempts to resuscitate. In fact anyone can pronounce a person dead, just not confirm it.

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A Paramedic can pronounce death to the point of abandoning attempts to resuscitate. In fact anyone can pronounce a person dead, just not confirm it.

Sorry Jimbo I recall that you have training in this field (Or maybe I'm getting confused with someone else??) but...., and I stand corrected if I am wrong.....- Terms have to be used carefully here - An ambulance crew use something called a ROLE form or Recognition of Life Extinct form and on the basis of that cease treatment - this is commonly called 'pronouncing' life extinct, however 'pronounced dead' is a legal term and in recent times these terms have become jumbled.

Ambulance crews must perform clinical checks to 'recognise life extinct' which is a different process than certifying death, which has to be done by a Doctor. Normally, a copy of this ROLE form plus a heart trace strip showing asystole , will be given directly to the Police in attendance (a legal requirement), who act as a representative of the coroner. The exact details are below in cases where obvious injuries that are non-conducive to the contiuance of life exist (such as decapitation etc);

Conditions Requiring ECG Evidence of Asystole

a) Patients who have received no resuscitation for at least 15 minutes following collapse and are in Asystole (pacing spikes do not

demonstrate a complex or a rhythm and in this context may be disregarded), with no pulse or respiratory effort on arrival of

ambulance personnel. (Paramedics and Technicians)

B) Continuous ASYSTOLE (pacing spikes do not demonstrate a complex or a rhythm and in this context may be disregarded), despite basic and advanced life support for more than 20 minutes in a normothermic patient (Paramedics and Technicians).

c) Patients who have been submerged for more than three hours (this applies to both hypothermic and normothermic patients). (Paramedics and Technicians).

As for a member of the public 'pronouncing dead' that you again cannot do, however if you give first aid and become physically too tired to continue you are within your rights to stop, HOWEVER, if you are trained and current in methods of sustaining life and stop without good reason once treatment is started you could, as a member of the public, be reported for manslaughter or unlawful killing - although this would be highly unlikely... so sorta right, but I have been trained never to mix up these terms - but then again we are bloomin perfectionists!!

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I will stand by your greater knowlege on this one and go back to our medical rep and bash him over the head until he tells me the truth!

i hope that won`t lead to another death on the Broads Gav?

I`ve only just read the article, and near the top of the comments on the story, a family member states that the man was already in very poor health, and even if he WAS wearing a life jacket, he would still have had a heart attack and died. This seems very similar to the lady that died at Gt Yarmouth a few months back. I may be wrong, and i wilfully stand to be corrected if i am, but that lady died of a heart attack, and not drowning. She was also pulled from the surface of the water shortly after falling in, so a life jacket may NOT have been any more effective. We must ALL remember that not all deaths caused through falling from boats are as a result of drowning through NOT wearing a life jacket.

Like everybody, my sympathies go out to his widow and family. Regards to all, ................. Neil.

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In both tragic cases a life jacket may not have helped save a life,but if the poor souls had both died while in the water,recovery of the bodies would have being a lot safer for all involved .ALL should wear them at ALL times when mooring or moving around the outside of a boat and then we wouldnt be reading about these tragic events so often

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Then Neil, if indeed he was in poor health why on earth was he engaged in mooring a vessel? I havent read that anywhere, can you post up the link?

However, the panic of falling in without being able to swim once the coldness of the water in both the cases you mention may have been equally the reason or a contributory factor why those souls lost their lives - the point is, lifejackets save lives, and as pointed out above, make the recovery of those overboard a whole lot easier. Unfortuanetly I haven't seen the coroners report on the other incident you mention and it would by wholly wise not to speculate on the cause of death without such facts, but I would like to point out one thing;

Early defibrilation saves lives too - In fact it is the biggest saver of heart attack victims and the fact that we have 'first responders' in the county, who volunteer their time have ensured that many are alive today when they, ordinarily, may have died

The longer you spend recovering them, the further off the defib curve you go and it goes without reason that, even if the sudden cold-shock brought about the trigger for the heart attack, if they are recovered quickly enough, without too much loss of body temperature, they will naturally have a better chance of survival, and therefore it goes without saying, that at the times of mooring especially, a life jacket could save your life in more ways than one!

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Difficult topic to answer with a death so recent.

Condolences to all the family.

My belief is that all activities hold a certain amount of risk.

Crossing the road holds a certain amount of risk.

Going on holiday holds a certain amount of risk.

I would love to see a risk assessment for Broads holidays verses a holiday in say Benidorm.

I am fairly sure that the highest risk in a holiday in Benidorm comes at the point where the holidaymaker drives to the airport. Likewise the highest risk of a Broads Holiday is the drive to and from East Anglia.

On a day to day basis I have to drive to work, then board a fast boat that takes me 14 miles offshore, climb up a rickety rope ladder up to 9m up the ships side, then drive a tanker laden with over 100,000t of volatile oil on board, berth it alongside a fixed steel structure, climb down a rickety gangway, drive thru an oil refinary where one spark could set the lot off, get in a taxi for 60+ miles then drive home. Where is the highest risk identified in our risk assessment?

The Taxi ride of course.

I will not slate anyone on here who does the risk assessment and decides not to wear a LJ at any time on board.

The ones I will slate are the ones who never do this risk assessment and think " well no one else wears a LJ so I will not either cos I will look silly".

Newbies can be forgiven when they see no others wearing the LJ's so do not so so themselves but us who populate this forum should be more aware of the dangers.

Contraversial as this may sound I do not go down the route of sympathy with the emergency services as that is thier job and if they have any sense should know what they may see when they took the job.

If you choose to work in A+E and cant stand trauma then you are in the wrong job. But if you do work in A+E then a certain Kudos comes with the job.Respect.

Same goes for all Emergency services and any Military job.

The known risks I take in my job ( getting in taxis :naughty: ) brings a certain Kudos to which I am not immune :oops:

Do I/we wear LJ's mooring up and letting go ? Well we try to.

Why?

Cos we are both getting older and I wear this PPE all the time at work so why not on the boat.

Do we wear this PPE at the most dangerous time of stepping on or off the boat when moored alongside when probably we have had a sherbert or 3 ?

No

Why?

Cos its a risk we are willing to take :oops::oops:

Rod

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Do we wear this PPE at the most dangerous time of stepping on or off the boat when moored alongside when probably we have had a sherbert or 3 ?

Been there, got the T shirt. Had fun last December when the boat was covered in snow and ice. But Rod’s right, it’s a risk you take with you eyes open. Also unless you’ve got one of those posh LJ’s taking the bulky orange ones in the pub could be a bit awkward not to mention the chances of leaving them behind after a few Little Sharpies 4.gif

cheersbar

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Being "Newbies" last year. During the handover of the boat 5 life jackets were brought on board for us & we were given

a demonstration of how to wear them. We all had to put them on to ensure they fitted ok.

They were very new looking too ( whether they were new or just very little used I don't know)

The life jackets are so big & bulky & not being a size zero myself I was more worried about bouncing off the boat trying to go along the sides

wearing one.

We were then shown where to store them in the appropriate locker in the saloon on the boat and I have to say I think that is where they stayed. :oops:

I think if they were the inflating type then yes I would have been more inclined to wear one (even having a fear of them but that's another story)

Also as the inflating ones don't take up so much room they could be more strategically placed being hung by the exit doors rather than having to pull out seat

cushions etc to get to them in the lockers. You may see an increase in their use. But at the same time they are so expensive it would cost the hire companies a fortune to invest in new ones.

We were also made well aware of where the life ring was located on the boat & the grappling hook along with fire blankets extinguishers etc.

In our defence whenever we got off the boat to moor up it was always once the boat was close enough to the quay or moorings to just

step off & there was always two of us getting off.

Our next trip is just my husband and I and It will most likely be me doing the mooring ropes so yes like them or not

I hope I will always remember to wear mine.

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Then Neil, if indeed he was in poor health why on earth was he engaged in mooring a vessel? I havent read that anywhere, can you post up the link?

Unfortunately Gav, i have`nt mastered that one yet :oops::oops::oops: , and i have to admit to being a bit of a "Technophobe", but if you click on the link in the original first post, and then read the comments below the story, there`s a posting by "pinkorchid" who is a family member, and she(?) says quite clearly that the man was in poor health, and that a life jacket would not have made any difference. I was only quoting (not in the exact wording though) what pinkorchid said.

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Calamityjane. If you are intending coming back more regularly have you thought about buying your own they aren't expensive and, as you say alot more comfy than the big ol' Mae West types the hire crews usually get?

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