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just a quick question

with all the big sales going on do yards & marine places & yards have big sales on stuff ... never asked the question before so nows like the time to ask

Jonny

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Hi Jonny, a lot of the 'outdoor world' type shops have big sales both in their stores and online, there good if your after things like sleeping bags, torches and specialist clothing, i have just bought Bill a couple of pairs of waterproof trousers (the type worn by sailies) for half price out of one of their online mega stores. Also good for buying up last seasons stock at bargain knock down prices with things like BBQs, folding chairs, tents and awnings going for less than half price, the only difference is mainly in the colour schemes, they tend to have a clear out before they release this seasons new ranges of fabrics.

Julz :wave

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Guest DAYTONA-BILL   
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I don`t think i`ve ever seen the "January sales" thing in the boating world, which i put down to the fact there are plenty of boat jumbles before the new season starts. Even they don`t have what i would call fantastic bargains, but they can be had if you spend the time looking deep into trays of clutter. Having said that, i HAVE picked up some real steals in the past, but that was "in the past", and these days, many stalls won`t haggle for a bargain. I also tend to steer clear of stalls that DON`T have prices displayed, as these types often take a few seconds to way up whether or not a customer can afford i higher price :norty::norty::norty::norty: .

Keep an eye out for any boat jumbles local to you Jonny, you may pick up a bargain or two, but then you may be just browsing through a chandlers stall full of new gear at new prices.

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i was thinking of bargain or reduced winter prices on having work done at yards ect...

i have never seen this before so wanted to see if yard do that sort of thing... everybody has a sale :naughty:

Jonny

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it also brings in extra work for the yards that are a little quite in winter that want some work

Jonny

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Hi Jonny

The sales in the shops and shopping centres at the minute are because that industry is affected by peaks and a kind of season. Basically the shops buy in lots of stock hoping to sell most of it at a profit before Christmas when people are buying gifts. Once Christmas is gone that particular little boom has gone and so the shops want to move on what they have not sold and the fact profit has been made (hopefully) on the stuff sold at full up (or close to) before Christmas means they can afford to get rid of the other stuff at little to no profit, and also out of necessaity to get back to the product lines they want for the next season or move away from things that are perhaps more gift related on the run up to Christmas.

The boating world does not have its peak time at Christmas so that is why you do not have a similar scenario - the difference of the industries means that a similar expectation might see you disappointed.

However, in the boating (holiday) world the quieter seasons are cheaper than the peak summer weeks, because of a business rationale not that far removed to in the explainings above.

Unfortunately just becaudse Debenhams are having a sale doesnt mean that all the boatyards will be (or for that matter should) too.... but if somerwhere was very quiet, needed some money in to pay the staff etc these are the kind of scxenarios that might see you get a keener quote, but knowing if and when that might be the scenario is a harder thing to work out, and varying quotes will often reflect quality of job carried out, in my experience anyway, so one has to be careful if trying to get something for nothing or at "bargain rates"

All the best

Dan

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Jonny, Hi.

We wanted some work done on Friday Girl over the Winter and were offered a reduction of £8/hour in Jan/Feb.......... from £38 to £30............ :cry:cry:cry

A very good offer.

Contrary to what seems likely, the overall winter layup period is the busiest for maintenance staff in most boatyards, especially hire yards. That's the only period they have to do extensive out-of-water work on their hire fleets.

The sheds at places like Martham Boats are jam packed over winter, with their own fleet and private boats slipped for the off season.

You can sometimes get more favourable rates in the Summer holidays, when the sheds are empty, and the fleets are all out, leaving the maintenance staff with practically nothing to do, except on changeover days.

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Strowy is right it is actually summer that is quieter for yards doing work certainly the other side of Mutford.

Our Marina offers a 'summer' package where they discount lifts, anti foul etc from memory from 1st July. Trouble is all the yotties have already pre booked :naughty:

Charges by the hour are all well and good but someone charging £30 and hour takes two and a half times someone charging £45 per hour is £30 cheap?

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£30 per hour is very cheap if it is a yard with overheads, personally I prefer a "job done price" as hourly rates can, as Perry points out, be very misleading in the end.

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Strowy is right it is actually summer that is quieter for yards doing work certainly the other side of Mutford.

Our Marina offers a 'summer' package where they discount lifts, anti foul etc from memory from 1st July. Trouble is all the yotties have already pre booked :naughty:

Charges by the hour are all well and good but someone charging £30 and hour takes two and a half times someone charging £45 per hour is £30 cheap?

I charge £15 per hour, so can i take twice as long as your cheap £30 per hour guy?

Oh and i promise not to drop my pants!!

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I know of one yard dropping his pants at the moment, but it will probably only be for this year :-|

I meant prices not pants :naughty:

Dont tempt people Clive you might see an influx of boats just for saying that PMSL :lol::lol:

Jonny

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MBA Marine wrote:

I charge £15 per hour, so can i take twice as long as your cheap £30 per hour guy?

Oh and i promise not to drop my pants!!

Not my guy like David I get a quote for the job I don't buy a price by hour its pants!

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Not my guy like David I get a quote for the job I don't buy a price by hour its pants!

to me per hour you have more chance or being ripped off rather a quote for the job to be done good & rite

Jonny

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To be honest it depends on the job, if you can see 100% of the job then you can price it without a problem, but with boats often people want you fit somthing in an area thats not seen light of day for years and when you start to look you find more and more wrong, or when you begin to disasemble some woodwork you find its all been glued.

So to combat the unknown when pricing the job you have inflate the price for the unforseen, but if the job goes to plan or even as somtimes happens is easier than first thought, then hourly rate is much better as if you honour the price you have just ripped of the customer. You might argue why not give a price and if the final bill worked out cheaper then just charge that? fine.....but what about when you give a price then you find aload of rotten wood or find a dimwitt had played DIY sparky. Or like i have found with boat with the fuel pipe change, the gas bin drain has been installed with a rise that terminates about as high as the top of the box! this was not only not accessable but not visible. now found i cant leave it. On a fixed price if the client was argumentive i would have to battle to get paid for the work.

What would i suggest? when you know and trust the guy you have do your work then you know he wont rip you off on an hourly rate. if its the first time then if you can get a price great, but from personal experience I have lost money on jobs that way and worked for nothing! my rates are very low as i like to give great value, i only try to earn what i need to support the family, and it really hurts when i work for nothing.

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I guess it is how well you survey prior to the work.

I had two examples.

JPC surveyed our boat and quoted for fitting a three outlet 3.5kv Webo. We agreed the price but on fitting they found the stringer they had planned on going through was just too thick so they came up with another solution. This solution took more time but they did not quibble on the original price. Their view was they should have seen this. The upshot is I would recommend JPC to anyone that asked as the workmanship and attitude was first class.

Second example Goodchild quoted me for fitting a Raymarine Autohelm, quote accepted and actioned. Top class installation and when the bill arrived it was under the quite as the job had not taken as long as anticipated.

I guess with both the above I had full confidence in the companies that were carrying out this work, I would certainly not trust our ship to anyone. The old adage relating to if it looks too cheap to be true it probably is I would suggest is what to keep in the forefront of you mind. I am never looking for a 'cheap job' I am looking for value which to me means competitively priced; top quality work, right first time.

Check how qualified the person you are thinking of engaging to carry out the work is.

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I guess it is how well you survey prior to the work.

I had two examples.

JPC surveyed our boat and quoted for fitting a three outlet 3.5kv Webo. We agreed the price but on fitting they found the stringer they had planned on going through was just too thick so they came up with another solution. This solution took more time but they did not quibble on the original price. Their view was they should have seen this. The upshot is I would recommend JPC to anyone that asked as the workmanship and attitude was first class.

Second example Goodchild quoted me for fitting a Raymarine Autohelm, quote accepted and actioned. Top class installation and when the bill arrived it was under the quite as the job had not taken as long as anticipated.

I guess with both the above I had full confidence in the companies that were carrying out this work, I would certainly not trust our ship to anyone. The old adage relating to if it looks too cheap to be true it probably is I would suggest is what to keep in the forefront of you mind. I am never looking for a 'cheap job' I am looking for value which to me means competitively priced; top quality work, right first time.

Check how qualified the person you are thinking of engaging to carry out the work is.

Well you have me there and the companies need that sort of referal, you made me chuckle though as i used to intstal Webasto systems on yachts supplied by JPC and fitted to the spec they required, also used to install the Raymarine/autohelm autopilot systems on the same boats, maybe you have a good piont perhaps i could double what i charge, it might annoy my current clients but i could pick up some that like to pay more, then i could work less. ummm maybe.

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I am never looking for a 'cheap job' I am looking for value which to me means competitively priced; top quality work, right first time. Check how qualified the person you are thinking of engaging to carry out the work is.

That's it, in a nutshell.

Too many "Decision Makers" in contract letting today use price as the only criteria.

When multiple quotes are sought, anyone significantly cheaper is going to cut costs somewhere, or make a loss.....

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It`s very easy to say that because something is cheap it`s going to be rubbish, be it to buy an object or pay for a service. However, it`s also worth considering that it could be cheap because the vendor does`nt have huge overheads, such as large marina`s with a dozen or so staff. If it`s a travelling engineer who only has a van and tools to run, all he would need to do is charge for the job at hand. His (or her?) only overheads would be the running costs of the van and the cost of tools where nessecary. If you knew someone would do an equally good job as a reputable yard, for less than half the cost because they have few overheads, it would be financially irresponsible to pay for the unnessecary use of a yards facillities.

As for MBA`s £18 per hour, that`s amazingly cheap for the marine industry, especially when you consider some in the motor industry have been charging in excess of £100 per hour for a many years, and i`m sure he has MANY satisfied customers. At that price, if i had a boat on the broads that needed some work doing, i`d definately be giving you a call. Sadly, that`s not going to be the case for at least the next 18 months :cry:cry .

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It`s very easy to say that because something is cheap it`s going to be rubbish, be it to buy an object or pay for a service. However, it`s also worth considering that it could be cheap because the vendor does`nt have huge overheads, such as large marina`s with a dozen or so staff. If it`s a travelling engineer who only has a van and tools to run, all he would need to do is charge for the job at hand. His (or her?) only overheads would be the running costs of the van and the cost of tools where nessecary. If you knew someone would do an equally good job as a reputable yard, for less than half the cost because they have few overheads, it would be financially irresponsible to pay for the unnessecary use of a yards facillities.

As for MBA`s £18 per hour, that`s amazingly cheap for the marine industry, especially when you consider some in the motor industry have been charging in excess of £100 per hour for a many years, and i`m sure he has MANY satisfied customers. At that price, if i had a boat on the broads that needed some work doing, i`d definately be giving you a call. Sadly, that`s not going to be the case for at least the next 18 months :cry:cry .

and your call would be welcome, you just gave me a £3per hour pay rise. many thanks thats my first rise in 4 years self emloyment! cheersbar

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There is a factor that's important to remember here.

The main reason that boatyards have higher overheads than mobile contractors is the cost of their premises, adjacent to the water.

Slipping and lifting facilities and hard standing are at a premium in the Broads area, and are a considerable extra overhead to boatyards, in capital investment and business rates.

One of the main reasons they quite rightly expect a percentage whenever an independent contractor works in their premises, whether the craft is afloat or slipped.

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Ah Strowy has beaten me to the point and saved me a Lakesailor :naughty:

I am not denigrating your business model MBA I am sure you do a great job. Where you sub contracting from JPC as a Webo agent or just working for them? You will know Tom then.

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