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pks1702

One for our Yottie Friends!

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"When they take the sails down they are a Power Boat"

Wrong - When under engine they are a power boat, if they have sails up while motoring they should be showing the correct shapes.

Amazes me the Yotties we see steering direct into the wind with full sail at 5-6 knots who think we don't know the laws of physics :roll:

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Wrong - When under engine they are a power boat, if they have sails up while motoring they should be showing the correct shapes.

Amazes me the Yotties we see steering direct into the wind with full sail at 5-6 knots who think we don't know the laws of physics :roll:

Of course, under Broads Byelaws (which specifically supercede ColRegs in areas under the control of the Broads Authority) a motoring cone (or anchor ball for that matter) is optional - you can fly one if you like, but you're not required to.

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"Of course, under Broads Byelaws (which specifically supercede ColRegs in areas under the control of the Broads Authority) a motoring cone (or anchor ball for that matter) is optional - you can fly one if you like, but you're not required to."

That's the whole point, you're not required to but it would be nice to let other boaters know how you are likely to behave, a cone gives at least some kind of a clue. Frankly from the behaviour I have experienced it seems many broads sailors have not read past power gives way to sail on to the except when bits, either that or they are simply bloody minded. Though I have many years of sailing behind me I could never understand why people sail down what are effectively wide ditches anyway, it is just such hard work, too much tacking at times, whilst though not particularly skillful is too repetative to be really enjojed. I have heard it said that if you can sail on the broads you can sail anywhere, yeah, like it prepares you for an eight foot following sea in a chanel the width of the Ant when you can't see the edges, so much AA and PB twaddle, half of 'em don't seem to know that COLREGs apply on Breydon :grin:

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Of course, under Broads Byelaws (which specifically supercede ColRegs in areas under the control of the Broads Authority) a motoring cone (or anchor ball for that matter) is optional - you can fly one if you like, but you're not required to

Which Broads bylaw is that mentioned in then?

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Which Broads bylaw is that mentioned in then?

5 The Collision Regulations as hereinafter defined shall not apply

in any waters to which these Byelaws apply.

(incidentally, byelaw 4 is worded in such a way that the byelaws now apply on Breydon and the lower Bure, since they've been taken over by the BA).

40.2 Notwithstanding paragraph (1) the master of a pleasure

vessel of less than 25 metres (82 feet) in length when at anchor

otherwise than in or near a channel shall not be required to

exhibit an anchor light or shape.

I was under the impression that there was a similar paragraph in the byelaws concerning motoring cones, but having re-read them, I can find no reference to motoring cones whatsoever. This would indicate that there's definitely no requirement to fly them, although as far as I'm aware there's no byelaw that specifically prohibits them, so if somebody wanted to then they could.

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Yes I recognise the piece re vessels at anchor but you seem to be asserting in your previous post that there was bylaw that specifically negated the need for a shape for a yacht motor sailing.

That has clarified the position.

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Yes I recognise the piece re vessels at anchor but you seem to be asserting in your previous post that there was bylaw that specifically negated the need for a shape for a yacht motor sailing.

That has clarified the position.

Yes I recognise the piece re vessels at anchor but you seem to be asserting in your previous post that there was bylaw that specifically negated the need for a shape for a yacht motor sailing.

That has clarified the position.

Well there's a byelaw that specifically negates ColRegs in all areas under BA control, which now includes Breydon Water, and there's no byelaw that requires the use of a motoring cone, so ergo there's absolutely no requirement to fly one.

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COLREGS shall not apply etc.... except they are COLREGS in different clothes with a few very minor edits.

I admit that they're similar to ColRegs in many instances, but they're not the same, as we've already established.

If I'm sailing on the Broads, I abide by the byelaws, if I'm sailing at sea (highly unlikely in my boat with it's current equipment, but technically possible), then I'll abide by ColRegs.

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So, I am on the Broads, in my little yacht and in deference to the wisdom here, I display the correct shapes...

How many Broads Motor Boaters will have the faintest idea what they mean?

Yes, sometimes sailing boats will leave their sails up and use the motor at the same time, for good reason usually. Frankly though, if you think they are trying to trick you when they do it, or they think you 'don't know the laws of physics', I can't really be bothered to explain why they do that. OK, I'll mention one reason, courtesy to other river users in motor cruisers at times where manoeuvrability under sail is limited or speed will be tediously slow (like on the Ant) - not for the sailor I hasten to add, but for the motor boat longing to get by...

Thanks for the Colregs lesson...

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P.S. What I guess I am trying to say is, after all this time, do we still need to descend to saily/stinky sniping? We can all testify to numpties in both camps... so what we are really talking about is numpties, isn't it?

P.P.S. Broads yachts hired from local yards don't have any equipment on board for alerting you to the fact that the skipper is a)asleep B) motoring c) taking a leak d) at anchor or e) any combination of the afore mentioned.

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It is actually a fair point in that unless a broads motor boater also goes to sea the chances of them knowing the Broads Bye laws are probably remote and colregs even more remote.

Broads motor boaters are no better in general than broads sailors, the only difference being that motor boats go in a straight line and steer round obstructions, Sailors tend to zig zag even when there is no need and expect obstructions to get out of their way.

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Oh dear Danny bad day at the office?

The :naughty: at the start of this post should have been a clue perhaps it was missed by a couple of folks so I will point that out to make it clear :roll:

Meant as bit of light hearted banter but it was turned slightly more serious; no sniping on my part.

Oh well I'm off to get my Fray Bentos out of the oven :cry:

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The only issue I have with yotties is when they won't give a signal as to which way they want you to go (other than the rude ones :lol: ), I've never sailed and have no clue what effect the wind will have at different angles on a sail, I'm far too stupid to operate flaps and sticks, often the best way to pass/overtake is to aim to be in the way as they will tack before you reach and you pass safely behind them, all it takes is a point one way or the other and I'm happy, shout 'give me water' at me and I'll turn on the tap and keep going in the same direction.

Happy to be a stinkie but like to see raggies out on the water too.

Can't we pick on the fishermen instead? :naughty:

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Leo, fair point (your first... the rest, well... :) ) however, some helms get very sniffy about a yachtsman telling them what to do... As I say, numpties is the issue... the rest of us usually get on fine.

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however, some helms get very sniffy about a yachtsman telling them what to do...

That would be their problem, in a restricted channel any vessel should take instruction(or should that be advice) from any other vessel resticted by it's manouverability or draft, wether or not that instruction is acted on is down to the helm to decide if it's a safe thing for their vessel to do.

It usually only takes a simple hand gesture to make things run smoothly.

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In my experience most yacht helms are very helpful and when tacking will frequently indicate where they would like you to go. The key is, if in doubt, hug the starboard bank and move slowly. On occasions where the is some doubt and we don’t get a signal, the first mate (Mrs Nog) will hold up her hands and this usually elicits the necessary directions. They key also is never to attempt to cross in front of a tacking yacht, always behind. They often get up a surprising spurt of speed when they have turned. :o

The only thing that does confuse me a bit is when a yacht has the wind astern (is this called running free?). In such circumstances the yacht can be in the middle of the river or even on the wrong side. The helm is often obscured the by sails. I usually just give the yacht a wide berth, if necessary going over to the other side if I am in doubt. But to be fair I have encountered very few unhelpful yacht helms. In fact we had quite an entertaining encounter with a guy tacking down Meadow Dyke, not the widest waterway on the Broads. We followed very slowly for a while but to be fair the yacht soon pulled in and let us pass. It was all very good humoured.

:Sailing

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There are rules that apply, even to a running yacht, but there is no such thing as 'the wrong side' even for motor boats...

Ahhh point taken, I wasn't sure if a running yacht would need to use one side of the river or other. I suppose with a motorised craft, yes there is no wrong side as such but convention would dictate that you generally stick to the right.

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Danny, Hi

We have over 20 years experience of sea-sailing from the Channel Isles to Denmark and to-and-fro across the North Sea. I previously raced for the RAF in 470's; so do know a bit about yots and dinghies...

Why anyone should want to sail up and down the rivers beats me but each according to their own!

Last Sunday in a fresh Westerly we encountered quite a few yotties racing up the Yare just past Cantley... I slowed down and hugged the RHS as they were tacking hither and thither into wind. One tacked on the otherside and remained sationary in my line of sight; so I stopped. He them moved forwards (in my line of sight) and would have safely just passed in front of us when a gust veered the wind and again had him pointing directly at us...

It very soon became apparent that he hadn't seen us or was either just plain daft or bloody-minded and I put on full reverse power to get out of his way...

Thanks? Not likely..... a mouthful of invective and a fist-salute as he turned just ahead of us... his stern missed us by 5-6ft.

I mention this beacause if I can get into situations like this then how on earth will some poor hirer cope?

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