Red Diesel prices

[Hockham Admiral]

I note that since early Apri, when red diesel was at 73p/L, it's down to 62p/L today ( figures quoted from BoilerJuice.com).

So when are we going to see a reduction on Broads prices? (Or indeed, anywhere else).

They seem happy enough to put them up when their supplies go up in price...........

[pks1702]

You may well ask John

I guess it depends when the last supplies were purchased.

Oil prices have dropped by 20% over the last couple of months but I have seen very little signs at the pumps. In one of our businesses we purchase a Petrochemical by product and have done for the last 20 years.What you learn very early on is that it is nothing to do with Oil prices but more to do with supply & demand (or in laymans terms what they can get away with).

Petrochemical companies always have a good story in our industry; Oil is decreasing "yes sir but there is an issue with Naptha supply and this is impacting our costs", exchange rates etc etc when all that fails they 'decide' who is going to switch off capacity and invoke 'Force Majeure' (An unexpected or uncontrollable event ) lack of capacity means demand is still there and prices remain at reasonable levels, when demand picks up they 'turn up the wick' and so it goes on.

When we go to our customers and regrettably have no option but to increase prices based on raw material increases many ask "can't you move to another supplier". The truth is increases are well orchestrated and controlled between these businesses, if for instance to beat an increase I wanted to stump up and buy 6 months supply ahead I can't or I am not allowed to, and of course there will be a very plausible reason..... supplies are tight. They have a very nice way of saying 'take it or leave it' too.

Interestingly over the last 20 years as more of the products we produce are made in the Far East instead of buying on a monthly contract basis most of them buy spot and with cash. It is interesting to note that when prices are pushed up these buyers hold back until the very last moment meaning the impact of no orders is much more immediate so it is a game of who blinks first - often it is the petrochemical companies! The fall over there have been much larger than anything seen in Europe.

I mention the last bit only because the much vaunted 'lets not fill up at" Shell/BP/etc probably would have an effect but trying to orchestrate it is like herding Cats!

Oh and the last bit of good news is that there is another 3p Tax hike in August planned. My money is on prices dropping by about 3p just before the tax rise

[Hockham Admiral]

That's a very interesting reply in an internatoinal context but I am only concerned with small businesses on the Broads who really can't say

"Petrochemical companies always have a good story in our industry; Oil is decreasing "yes sir but there is an issue with Naptha supply and this is impacting our costs", exchange rates etc etc when all that fails they 'decide' who is going to switch off capacity and invoke 'Force Majeure' (An unexpected or uncontrollable event ) lack of capacity means demand is still there and prices remain at reasonable levels, when demand picks up they 'turn up the wick' and so it goes on."

I am not going to call it profiteering but it does have an unsavoury taste to it...

[pks1702]

In a local context it will be:

1) When are they due to re order as this may be at a potential lower price; how much does he sell, higher volume might mean a slightly lower price.

2) Using the 'international' context it depends on supply & demand. If a supplier (not yard) is selling most of what he can at price A he might decide not to reduce to price B.

3) I would imagine most suppliers are independents and not Petrochemical Refiners direct so the above may well apply again in that the refiner is selling all the diesel he can at the price he wants.

Oil Refining is a Global business and even in sleepy Norfolk/Suffolk its tentacles reach. I was just trying to outline that supply and demand is as bigger factor as Oil prices.

[Hockham Admiral]

But I am quoting prices that I can get now if I had a big enough tank to put it in! So they will be buying at the prices I quoted!

[Hockham Admiral]

Or probably much less as that was a quote for 1000L.........

[pks1702]

Time to fit some 'Belly Tanks' then John.

Fill her up

[pks1702]

Has he been listening to us

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18588855

[gary01]

to get cheaper prices then why not form a syndicate in your moorings, 5-6 boats order 1000ltrs between them and fill up same day. as long as your all there and side by side am sure the lorry driver will be ok with that. just make sure u all have 200-220 ltr tanks. fit an extra tank if needs be , will pay for itself the first season am sure.

[Hockham Admiral]

Not that easy, Gary as you then have to pay the 60% rate to the Revenue men and I'm not too sure how you'd do that.............

[ExUserGone]

As far as I'm aware theres nothing to say you can't fill up at the low duty rate and send a declaration letter and cheque direct at the end of the year when you know the percentage you have used for propulsion, after all you can fill out one declaration for the whole year if you use the same supplier each time and the supplier is only required to submit funds/declarations annually, the 60% is only a guideline for guess work, if you genuinely use more than 40% for domestic you can declare any percentage you want, I know live-aboards that declare 0% propulsion as they never move anywhere other than the nearest pumpout facility (which is still domestic use).

Keep a log book of miles travelled and fuel used for heat/light/water and your covered.

I've had red delivered to the house in large quantities and as soon as you say marine to the driver they don't care.

It may be worth a call to your local oil supplier to see how they stand on IBC tanks, I think up to 2500 litres doesn't have to be bunded, my 1000 litre heating oil tank isn't bunded and thats never had an issue with deliveries, a bit of common sense on positioning near water courses and drains wouldn't go amiss though.

[Hockham Admiral]

Thanks, Leo... if I still had a gas-guzzler (sorry, Salties) I'd certainly go that way!

[Antares_9]

So when are we going to see a reduction on Broads prices? (Or indeed, anywhere else).

Can't speak for the Broads but as for the "anywhere else" Shotley have recently dropped theirs by 12p a litre for 60/40 split.

[wombat nee blownup]

SHOCK HORROR PROBE. GOODCHILDS REDUCE PRICE OF DIESEL BY 40p A LITRE !!!!

[quo vadis]

Reminder to sef, fill up at Goodchilds Monday

[Hockham Admiral]

SHOCK HORROR PROBE. GOODCHILDS REDUCE PRICE OF DIESEL BY 40p A LITRE !!!!

Surely you mean 4p??????