The crazy price of diesel.

[Guest]

where are you drawing that figure from? 24,000 a year and are you talking direct deaths or deaths that have winter as a exacerbating factor.

many elderly die over the winter of pre existing conditions that are exacerbated by the cold are you including them?

Many elderly will not use central heating, my own grandad amoung them, as they feel it causes chest problems and no about of persuasion will change their mind. changes in the social care system are needed but so is family responsibility a case here last year involved a elderly lady dying alone at home as she had no post box!! social services the pension agency etc had attempted to make conntact but failed, her pension was left unclaimed and nobody followed it up gross failings on the social sysytem BUT this lady had 10 children all grown up where were they?

Does all responsibility lie with the state or should we not take some for our elderly reletives.

tudor :-D must be great to be young again I am 40 next week can i have some of what you have had ? :-D

[thirdmate]

If anyone is interested diesel price is falling as we speak

ps I can now get LPG for 51p litre

[Guest Hank]

OK Monday night coming back from the boat and desperate for petrol every filling station had queues out on the road at between £1.19 and £1.21 a litre.

This morning (Tuesday) everyone has no queues and £1.13 a litre. Having been away and not hearing any news has something happened I missed?

[pks1702]

completely, possibbly it will be left to the Unions to achieve it with Industrial action, Im willing

No surprise there then!

Boy oh boy you know the leftie rhetoric shame they don't match the facts

You talk about pensioners and fighting in two world wars in which case why did the good comrade abolish the 10p tax rate that really helped pensioners, oh and funny how winter fuel payments have not been index linked

If we are talking equality and fairness lets adopt a flat rate tax so tnat we all pay the same that seems fair.

And if you were wondering why our site "Red Robbo" is puffing his chest out have a look at the article attached especially the bit about Unions. SOME uninions have been instructed to increase their profile with members now as they feel they have an opportunity to show they have teeth and prove their worth now THEIR government are on the ropes

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The idea behind Gordon Brown's 'rules'

Gordon Brown’s rules were always pretty arbitrary. And they were always going to be easy to fiddle.

I’m sure you have a rough idea of what the rules are, but just for posterity’s sake, here they are. The basic idea is that the government borrows only to ‘invest’ over an economic cycle. It has to balance its books over the business cycle as a whole. Meanwhile, the ‘sustainable investment rule’ means it has to keep debt to a ‘prudent level’. At the moment, public borrowing isn’t meant to rise above 40% in each year of the current cycle.

To put it more simply, the rules were meant to ensure that the government – unlike Labour governments in the past – wouldn’t simply tax the blazes out of the electorate and then pump the cash indiscriminately into the public sector. Past Labour governments have run the economy like a drunk with a stolen credit card, merrily buying round after round for his fair weather friends until he realises he’s spent so much that he can’t pay the bill. At which point he and his friends are all thrown out of the bar.

This carelessness has, in the past, tended to end up in a sterling crisis. And that memory was one of the things that kept Labour out of power for so long up until 1997.

Mr Brown wanted to get rid of that impression. Hence the rules. These made it sound as if he at least had some understanding that balancing a budget was important, and that getting some sort of return for the money spent on the public sector was needed. The rules gave the idea that there was some sort of restriction on government spending, exactly what the public and the City needed to hear.

And why it's all meaningless in practice...

Of course, in reality, there was no restriction at all. The Government gets to decide when the economic cycle begins and ends. So in practise, they can spend as much as they want, as long as they can still pretend that it’ll all balance out come the end of the cycle.

But despite the incredible degree of flexibility built into these ‘rules’ – perhaps it should have been called the Golden Guideline – the Government is still on course to bust them. And now we’re heading for recession. That means the tax take is going to fall, but at the same time, the Government feels it can’t stop spending, because that would make the downturn even worse (although the idea of cutting taxes to boost consumer incomes doesn’t seem to have occurred to them).

So the rules are being revised. We don’t know exactly how yet – that’ll probably be announced in the pre-Budget statement in autumn. The Chancellor will probably try to flannel his way out of trouble by saying that the current economic cycle is over, and so we need new rules for a new cycle.

But the long and the short of it is that the Government will be allowed to borrow more money. Never mind that borrowing and spending too much is what got us all into this trouble in the first place.

Even assuming that borrowing more to spend is the right thing to do, what is the money going to be spent on? Most of it has been blown on adding layer upon layer of bureaucracy to the public sector. How many more quangos do we need? Why borrow more money when you could save a pile and lose nothing at all by simply taking a metaphorical axe to anyone with the word “co-ordinator†in their job title?

Why the unions are excited about higher Government borrowing

That’s not the way the Government thinks sadly. And there’s no chance of it changing its tune for as long as it’s reliant on the unions for its funding. And now that they realise the Government is going to borrow more money, the unions are cawing like baby chicks at the sight of a worm.

Tony Woodley of Unite tells The Telegraph: “We are not going to let a pay cut be imposed on our members purely because of an economic crisis coming from elsewhere in the world. If a change to the Government’s borrowing rules makes that easier then so much the better.â€

And Adam Lent of the TUC has a great idea. “Given that one way to boost the economy is to ensure public servants have higher pay – it might be worth considering borrowing extra to afford this.â€

That’s a cracker, Adam. Tell you what, another way to boost the economy would be to deposit quarter of a billion pounds sterling in my bank account. I promise to blow the lot on flat-screen TVs and buy-to-let flats, and will only keep a small 10% consultancy fee for my pains.

The unions know they’ve got it made - but only until the general election in 2010. So expect them to step up the pressure between now and then – it’s much harder to reverse a pay deal once it’s been made. So that’s one more thing for the Bank of England to worry about.

And for Mr Brown? Well, the rocks he founded his Chancellorship on, his Golden Rules, have now crumbled, along with any reputation for good governance he had left. As The Times puts it, regardless of how they spin it: “for the financial credibility of Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, this is not the end of the beginning. It is The End.â€

[Antares_9]

87 BILLION paid in the City last year in bonuses,too City spivs and gangsters,who reap havoc on the economy, the VICTIMS the PENSIONERS! and the rest of us!

And how much paid into the greedy robber baron union pension funds from the City,? their pension funds need for growth are still a major influence on the need for more and higher dividends.

My income depends entirely on what I can sell my skills for and that in my view is all anybody is entitled to, I had the larger part of my pension stolen by a fat socialist git and neither SOGAT or NUJ were any use at all in the whole time I was a member, I now don't feel the world owes me anything and will make my own way without reliance on a gang who I have to pay protection money (or union subs)to to look after my interests. I know you have to protect your job by expounding the virtue of the Unions, but please, somewhere else, frankly you're begining to bore me, if you have something DIRECTLY constructive to contribute to this boating forum then please do it otherwise, shut the F)*&^% up.

Now look what you've made me do, can we please get this thread back on line.

[Guest]

tudor :-D must be great to be young again I am 40 next week can i have some of what you have had ? :-D

Broadsbean - you are young - make the most of it! I can't even remember being 23 !

The trouble is with being old, (born in 1962 !!) I can remember when petrol was selling for 29p per gallon - now it's selling for £5.40 per gallon (118.9p per litre).

However, I would willingly pay a bit more if it meant voting out this corrupt and inefectual Prime Minister and his weak Government.....

Nigel

[Heron]

The problem is Nigel, you will not be paying a bit more, you will be paying A LOT more. When will we ever learn.

Ken

[Guest]

Ken,

You're right - I must vote myself in for Prime Minister one of these days, as soon as I have the time, cos I know things will be so much better!!

Nigel

[Heron]

Nigel, fancy a job share?

Ken

[Guest]

Ken,

Yup - you give your time, and I'll take the pay - that's the sort of give and take I like !!!

[Guest]

hi flanaguff...........I have noticed that your posts are deep felt ....But they are not broads politics ,,,,don't know how others feel but i come here to get a rest from the ills of the world..!!!! .......It is the same reason i come to the river .......I personally don't mind politics that directly concern the broads ....... But I'm sure there must be better places to air your views.......

regards r.b....

[Paladin]

hi flanaguff...........I have noticed that your posts are deep felt ....But they are not broads politics ,,,,don't know how others feel but i come here to get a rest from the ills of the world..!!!! .......It is the same reason i come to the river .......I personally don't mind politics that directly concern the broads ....... But I'm sure there must be better places to air your views.......

regards r.b....

What a lovely, gentle post this is. Thank you, r.b... I have been trying to think how to ask flanaguff to go elsewhere without incurring the wrath of the mods by my language and you have done it perfectly.

It probably won't have any effect though, because I seriously doubt that those posts are "deep felt", but are couched deliberately in such inflammatory terms so as to stir the icky stuff. The moderators on this forum give an extraordinary amount of leeway to this type of behaviour.

In other forums I visit, he would have been named and shamed as a TROLL a long time ago and banned for his intemperate and offensive language. It is a fact of life that practically every forum will suffer from trolls from time to time. I have witness forums ruined by such behaviour when it has been allowed to continue unchecked, as those who find such conduct offensive leave to go to other friendlier environments. Mods please note.

...and to bring this thread back on topic, I note the price of oil has fallen. Has anyone noticed the price of diesel coming down yet?

[thirdmate]

Back on thread boys and girls

Asda's price change came into effect on Tuesday, making unleaded petrol 113.9p per litre with diesel 128.9p at its 170 forecourts

BP said petrol and diesel at the 310 stations where it controls prices had fallen by 2p a litre on average

Now of course our idiots in westminister may now not delay a duty increase !!!!

Andy

[Guest]

[

It probably won't have any effect though, because I seriously doubt that those posts are "deep felt", but are couched deliberately in such inflammatory terms so as to stir the icky stuff. The moderators on this forum give an extraordinary amount of leeway to this type of behaviour.

In other forums I visit, he would have been named and shamed as a TROLL a long time ago and banned for his intemperate and offensive language. It is a fact of life that practically every forum will suffer from trolls from time to time. I have witness forums ruined by such behaviour when it has been allowed to continue unchecked, as those who find such conduct offensive leave to go to other friendlier environments. Mods please note.

[jillR]

hi smelly loo

us mods do feel like were on a hiding to nothing some times

but we know we can trust peeps to make their feelings known :

jill :-D

[Paladin]

I imagine it is a very difficult job for the moderator's to decide who or what to censor; to decide whether an individuals view is heart felt or not is almost impossible.

Rude comments directed at an individual is not appropriate. To reply to a post in a strong ways so as to illustrate an opposing view leads to lively exchanges which can make interesting reading. Please don't try to turn this forum into a old pal's area, it just makes for a very boring site for guests.

I have received a finger wag by a moderator in an early post. Personnaly i find this smilie to be quite rude, however the moderator concerned made their point known.

Perhaps when a thread get's completely off track a transfer to the naughty chair would be appropriate. Those of us who enjoy heated debate can continue to view leaving those that don't, free to view more appropriate topics.

There is an "Ideas for the Site" forum and perhaps there is a case for a thread to discuss what it is that members want from the site. I have no objection to lively debates, provided they are conducted in a civilised manner. Calling for innocent (in the eyes of the law, if not flanaguff) individuals to be hanged,for example, is hardly civilised.

It is a matter for the site owner, in discussion with the mods, what level of moderation should be applied, keeping in mind the type of poster they wish to attract and keep. I acknowledge that I am a guest in their "house". I pay nothing to be here and will treat other "guests", and expect to be treated, with respect. I will stay or go, depending on whether I enjoy my time here.

On this particular thread, I was expecting to read "crazy price of diesel" related posts, not inflamatory, offensive and totally party political orientated diatribes that had little or nothing to do with the subject of the original post or The Broads.

I'm not trying to turn this forum into anything - it existed before I came and it will exist after I leave. I am simply expressing my view in, I hope, a civilised manner - sorry if you find that too "old Pally". I note you haven't made a call for the forum not to be turned into a highly-charged political arena where extreme forms of abusive behaviour are welcomed - perhaps you would welcome that, though.

Oh, I nearly forgot, the topic - my local Tesco has a policy (I think it was a planning condition) that they do not undercut the prices at local, independent filling stations. Do other supermarkets have similar policies and does this make it easier for Shell, BP etc to keep the prices artificially high.)

[Poppy]

Calling for innocent (in the eyes of the law, if not flanaguff) individuals to be hanged,for example, is hardly civilised.

That was me, Paladin. I accept that in this country ALL are innocent until proven guilty. In the case in point case, I am sure there is enough evidence for a conviction!

However, I agree with the majority, we've done that aspect of the discussion to death, time to move on. How about having a go at all those bl***y Scots in Parliament?

[Antares_9]

[quote name=Poppy How about having a go at all those bl***y Scots in Parliament?

Everybody will have the same opportunity come 2010 Poppy, let's leave it 'til then :-D :-D

[Paladin]

That was me, Paladin. I accept that in this country ALL are innocent until proven guilty. In the case in point case, I am sure there is enough evidence for a conviction!

However, I agree with the majority, we've done that aspect of the discussion to death, time to move on. How about having a go at all those bl***y Scots in Parliament?

I'm terribly sorry, Poppy. I hope that you and flanaguff will forgive my mis-attribution

With the news that fuel prices are falling (at some supermarkets anyway) I'm going to try to sell my full tank of fuel, that I recently purchased at a higher price, on Ebay - some mug will buy it, then I can top-up again at the new lower price. Who thought that putting fuel in your car could one day become as risky as buying stock and shares?

[thirdmate]

Try hard to be back on track !!!!!

check out BBC web site with latest fuel price drops round the country

[Guest]

I note you haven't made a call for the forum not to be turned into a highly-charged political arena where extreme forms of abusive behaviour are welcomed - perhaps you would welcome that, though.

I am aware of the posts to which you refer. It was obvious from the first few words and the length of the posting that it contained material that held very little interest to me. However the Forum rules clearly state that obscene or inflamatory posts are not permitted and may be deleted. Whilst it is a matter of opinion whether the post was abusive(depends on your political leaning) the call for violent action, whether said in jest or not could be considered inflamatory. If such a remark was aimed at minority groups then it would clearly be deemed inflamatory.

I repeat the moderators lot is not an easy one. Luckily those that hold and wish to share their extreme views invariably post lengthy replies. Having the on-line attention span of a gnat i usually can't be bothered to read beyond the first para.

[Antares_9]

Sorry ponkylav, I lost you after "I am aware " :-D :-D

[Guest flanaguff]

Agreed that weve probably flogged this issue to death, but how you can debate it without discussing POLITCS?

Anyway I respect the opinions of the majority, and have no wish to upset the members of this excellent site, so if anyone wishes to continue lets do it via Pms!

This Sat i will be on Royall Diamond you will notice the huge RED FLAG flying, give us a wave

JAW JAW IS MUCH BETTER THAN WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest flanaguff]

Someone asked where i got info on pensioners try this one www.natpencon.org.uk

And thats it i PROMISE

[Antares_9]

Can you be sure he hasn't?

Easily