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60/40% split confirmed on red

Antares_9

By Antares_9
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Antares_9

Antares_9

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Maybe now is a good time to campaign for petrol to be rebated for pleasure boats too? cheers

I imagine you could claim a rebate for using it fo heating / genny Ian, Commercial boats can already reclaim duty / VAT on it, so no different to Diesel ater the 1st Nov.

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Antares_9

Antares_9

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Applied in the rest of the EU for a very long time Ponkylav, UK and Eire and a few others had derogation for a while. The issue most of us had was that the road duty in EU was a lot lower than UK hence they would pay a lot less than we would, so it wouldn’t have been a level playing field. As this level field was the claimed object of duty harmonization it didn’t sit well. Oddly the 60 / 40 split brings us a lot closer in overall pleasure boat duty in the rest of the EU, so mayhap somebody at HMC&R has a bit of common sense after all.

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senator

senator

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Was up for the blockade, then realised it would cost me more in petrol than I would ever get back :naughty:

On a serious note though, my water is heated from the engines, my batterys for domestic light and the fridge etc. are all charged from the engines, no where is it said that you have to have a heater to claim a rebate it is just for domestic use.

May have difficulty with the at source issue if you are buying from Tesco but it will be interesting to see what happens if you try and claim it at Brooms or any other marine distributor.

Probably the same price as Tesco after the rebate is taken into consideration but it would be a lot more convienient.

Ian

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Broadsword

Broadsword

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Puzzled as to why any other Broads website needs to mentioned, especially in a negative tone?

Forgive me if I have missed this, but will it only be possible to gain the benefit on large purchases? What about the Broads sailor with a river cruiser who buys a few gallons at a time in cans? How will this be worked out in practice?

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Antares_9

Antares_9

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Puzzled as to why any other Broads website needs to mentioned, especially in a negative tone?

Forgive me if I have missed this, but will it only be possible to gain the benefit on large purchases? What about the Broads sailor with a river cruiser who buys a few gallons at a time in cans? How will this be worked out in practice?

To answer the first question Danny, because I don't like them and will take any opportunity to have a dig. :naughty:

To try to answer the second question, HMC&R have allowed the 60 / 40 split as a bit of a nod, you could still be asked to justify your split to them, so if for instance you have a boat with little or no requirement for fuel other than propulsion then it would be unwise (and illegal) to claim 60/40. If you only buy a few gallons (of red) a year in cans then provided you make the (honest) declaration to the supplier at the point of sale then you should be allowed the same courtesy, but is it worth it for a small saving? What you are actually declaring for every 100 litres purchased is that you will use 60 for moving the boat and 40 for water and space heating and generator, in the summer that may well be on the optimistic side. In the winter if you spend time aboard at the weekends and don’t go far then it may well be pessimistic. Practically, which is the important thing, I think that provided people don’t take the Mickey then all will be well and we will be left alone, otherwise we may well be faced with a far more complex system.

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Guest

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So my question is will we have to show proof of purchase at any point in the future, Do we need to keep receipts to show we have split it down, Also will we need to sign for the fuel as proof? i ask because i have bought red diesel and have it in a tank at work and this will last me around 18 months i hope, So how do i stand with this

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Antares_9

Antares_9

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I suspect the only time you would be asked for receipts is if you were subject to an inspection or audit, not unlike say, when you have a VAT or income tax inspection. All the more reason in my view to keep simple records and be sensible about what split you claim. Final details about point of purchase paperwork are still a bit sketchy but I understand that a simple self declaration will be all that is required. This situation is a lot less onerous than it might have turned out to be and I for one will be keeping my head down and not looking this particular gift horse in the mouth, much as it pains me (keeping my head down that is)

As for your tank at work, my interpretation is if it's not in your boat tank on 1st Nov then then technicaly you will need to declare what you use for propulsion and pay the difference between the duty and VAT you you paid as you put it in your tank at work and the new duty and the higher rate VAT direct to HMCR, but I don't think they will be coming looking for you. :-D

Might even encourage a few more peeps to keep a ships log, then you can have loads of other cruising info and events to read back on over the years. :-D :-D

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David maybe you can answer this for me plz?

if i buy 50ltrs of red and use it for propulsion and running the engine to get hot water. as i don't have diesel hot air hearts just one i think that runs off the engine coolant. would i get a discount on the above circumstances.

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Antares_9

Antares_9

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David maybe you can answer this for me plz?

if i buy 50ltrs of red and use it for propulsion and running the engine to get hot water. as i don't have diesel hot air hearts just one i think that runs off the engine coolant. would i get a discount on the above circumstances.

Certainly Jonny, the same goes for running the engine to charge batteries for light, calculationg the percentile might be a bit taxing though (no pun intended)

But it's not a discount, it is the purchase of red diesel for the purpose of generating heat and light, which attracts the same duty and lower VAT rate as you pay today.

Here’s an interesting one though, the word used is diesel used for propulsion, a modern diesel is about 30 – 40% thermally efficient, ergo only 30 – 40% of the diesel used by your engine converts to propulsion, the rest goes to heating the engine room and the river / sea / surrounding air via your exhaust and cooling water and therefore is not used for propulsion. Tell you what though, I’m not getting into a barney with HMC&R about that one

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Guest

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This is going to cause a few problems me thinks.. I just dont see how this can be monitored, Unless we all keep a log of how many hours we cruise against how long we run the engine, How on earth can anyone say what we should pay? What if i say i havnt been out on the boat for more than 2 hours in every month then i will only use a minimal of fuel and therefore a tank of fuel would last years, but as i said earlier i have 1800 ltrs in a tank and i just keep topping up how can anyone say otherwise, So in both cases i would not have a reciept, And this is a sticking point.... :naughty:

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senator

senator

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The 60/40 split is not compulsary, if you want to claim 100% for domestic that is up to you, what they are saying is that at 60/40 they will not expect extensive paper work and it wilol be excepted as reasonable.

If you want to claim differently then the onus is on you to prove your use, receipts, calculations, hours logs etc. Is it worth it for the few quid a year you will save?

Ian

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Yes i understand that, what i am saying is i have 1800ltrs in a tank, if i use this it is going to last a long time, I want to know if i use it i will not have reciepts, so will i have to show proof or can i argue i dont go out very often so what was in my tank is what i bought before nov 1st, i am sure i am not alone on this and i belive it is going to be very hard to show what usage you are using, Many people will have access to cheap red diesel and will use it.. unless a log is kept there is no way anyone can prove what you will use and if indeed any diesel has been bought or used !! I may be wrong i just am not sure.. :Stinky go baby go

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