Herbert Woods....

[BroadAmbition]

Herbert Woods? - Love em to death, we hire two Jewels from them every year for our Lads Week with 'B.A' in attendance. They look after us very well with 4 x very good sweeteners that they are under no obligation to give us but they do, year in year out.  Plus for us the Jewels offer accommodation for 6 chaps (7 if we utilise the saloon) with no one having to share a bed plus they are shaft drive which is quieter and vastly more economical over the hydraulic versions. The raised steering of a centre cockpit is a plus as the large aft well deck for access / fishing gear and the like.  If other yards had a similar boat we would consider them - but they don't.  We did once use Richo's but the boats were hydraulic drive, during our lads week we do some fair distance, the noise and the horrendous diesel consumption put us off for good, in fact when we got back to the yard, not only had we used all our fuel deposit, we owed them some more brass.

We have the jewels booked again for October and also have two of them booked for a long weekend in September along with 'B.A' of course (I got roped into organising a re-union weekend for the comms department of HMS Illustrious)

Plus - historically Mum and Dad used Herbert Woods a lot from the 50's onwards so I have that attachment with them, as I used to have with Brooms, and John Williams

Griff

[NorfolkNog]

Wise words from Dan I think. And I agree, one shouldn’t be penalised for loyalty.

I hired from Swancraft for many years. They weren’t the cheapest around but the quality of the fleet and the service was second to none. I think the cost was well justified for the quality. They never discounted to any great extent apart from the odd 100 quid which they occasionally offered through Hoseasons. They didn’t really need to offer discounts.

I think Dan’s point about loyal, early bookers is a good one. I think in addition I personally got added value with Swancraft in all the help and attention they gave us which was well over and above the normal course of duty so to speak. And of course I always booked with them from one year to the next.

However regarding Herbert Woods, I have hired from them many times in February. They do offer discounts which are clear and well documented. I benefited from a 5% loyalty discount, a 5% early booking discount and a further discount of 5% for payment in full.

I guess the recent fuel offer is perhaps an added carrot possibly if bookings are a bit slow. I think generally though the yards should consider offers very carefully, ensure they are clear and well publicised and avoid, were possible, penalising loyal, early bookers.

Of course the one advantage of booking early is that you can guarantee the exact boat you want on the exact date you want. If you hang on for a possible discount you may of course have to take your chances somewhat.

I would add that I have always been very pleased with the service I have received from Herbert Woods. Their boats are well presented and the staff very helpful. I cannot praise them enough for the support we received from them recently. I would fully endorse Griff’s comments also.

[Oddfellow]

Anyone not booking early this year is likely to be disappointed; he have seen a surprising shift in the booking pattern in 2016 and already more than half of the school summer holidays are taken. In fact, some boats have just a couple of holidays left for this time. 

Easter is predictably a bit slower with it being so early, but bookings for the following week are strong. We've also had a cancellation on Absolute Freedom for Easter (customer's pooch is poorly and due an operation) - £50 saving to any forumite who would like this Friday to Monday booking. 

[Polly]

HW was always our hire yard of preference.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Went with HW twice, the second time was an "apollogy cruise" at half price, swore i`d NEVER go with them again. However, that was 20 years ago, so i hope they`ve improved their standards, and looking at the boats while on the rivers, they did look nice, but are looks deceptive?, i hope not. Reading threads like this makes me think, should i be in the market for a hireboat, i`d give them a try. Not something i would have ever considered 20 years back, but hey ho, everybody deserves a chance.

[NorfolkNog]

Hi Neil

I would think 20 years ago they were probably part of Norfolk Broads Direct, ie with Faircraft Loynes. Different animal today. I've been spoilt somewhat with Swancraft so am probably more picky than most but I must say I've been impressed with HW. Very professional and the boats are well turned out and maintained. You don't quite get the same friendly intimacy would get with say Swancraft or Bridgecraft but to be fair that's not really possible with the bigger yards.

But HW have always treated me very well and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

 

[Wonderwall]

I'm a HW fan. Staff and boats both excellent and I think price wise are much of a muchness with other yards. I could be wrong, I haven't studied it too deeply.

Any problem I have had, sometimes my fault have been dealt with swiftly with no fuss.

They can give me free fuel,if they want!!

[BroadAmbition]

Just had an E-mail flyer from Herbert Woods stating during national Pet month, 01 Apr - 02nd May - all pets go free 

(Note to self - Don't go there Griffin, you have already had one telling off from Polly today)

Griff

[ranworthbreeze]

24 minutes ago, Jonzo said:

I turned up at HW reception a couple of years back, but we were told that as an all-male party we couldn't have the boat we wanted.

We were a bit surprised that they were happy to turn away a £1500 booking when they have been running offers etc to get occupancy. I'm sure by speaking to someone senior and explaining our position we could have got the booking, but why should we? We just got on the blower to Richardson's.

They're the only yard we've had that issue with - Silverline for instance have told us that booking their newest wouldn't be a problem.

Hi Jonzo,

Silverline is a great yard, we have friends who used to hire each year from them, each time they had a pair of boats.

Regards

Alan

[deebee29]

We had Silver Elegance last year (same spec as Serenity) and it's a great boat, very high quality. We have it again in 4 weeks time.

Serenity had just been launched when we were there last year.

Great yard. 

[NorfolkNog]

Hmm, I think in deference to HW they were probably just  reading by the book. Not ideal I know. As Griff has said he has no problems hiring Jewels for the lads week. There are times, I think, when the smaller yards like Swancraft and Bridgecraft come into their own. Because they can think on their feet and be flexible. For example Bridgecraft don't normally hire in winter but were willing to accommodate us for which I was most grateful. Richardsons, good as they are,  don't do winter hire. So perhaps small is beautiful sometimes?

[Timbo]

We'd been a regular customer of Herbert Woods for over forty years, never had a major problem...odd break down sure...but nothing to complain about...until we bought our own boat and got rammed by some half wit in a HW bathtub. Advised to be a 'gentleman' and let HW do the repair. Three years later I'm just about to start on the last of the repairs myself that HW were supposed to do and maybe get my boat back out on the water again...fingers crossed. HW just poked some putty between some sprung planks...which fell out a week later... and ignored the collapsed deck, canopy, bulkhead etc etc. Lesson learned...let my insurance company deal with any incident in the future.

[JennyMorgan]

Timbo, this is a drum that I have banged long and hard for several years now. Boat owners should insist that their insurance companies deals with any incident.

In my honest opinion it will only be when insurance companies are involved that the hire yards will wake up to reality, it's an issue that has been skirted for far too long in my opinion. We have to be insured, it's the law, it's what insurance companies are there for so why don't we use them? There is no logical reason not to use the insurance companies, it what we have to pay for.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Timbo, this is a drum that I have banged long and hard for several years now. Boat owners should insist that their insurance companies deals with any incident.

In my honest opinion it will only be when insurance companies are involved that the hire yards will wake up to reality, it's an issue that has been skirted for far too long in my opinion. We have to be insured, it's the law, it's what insurance companies are there for so why don't we use them? There is no logical reason not to use the insurance companies, it what we have to pay for.

Yes, its come up on here before, and I agree completely too.

It's too risky to allow a hire yard to repair structural damage to your private boat unless it's very minor and cosmetic.

Once you go down that path, your ability to reject poor workmanship is severely hampered.

Also, and perhaps even more importantly, if hire companies had to pay the full cost of their customers' damage, then they may eventually reconsider their almost universal  "non-returnable damage waiver" policy, whereby the majority of the hirers pay for the often culpable damage of the few, that treat boats like dodgems.

[JennyMorgan]

11 minutes ago, Strowager said:

Yes, its come up on here before, and I agree completely too.

It's too risky to allow a hire yard to repair structural damage to your private boat unless it's very minor and cosmetic.

Once you go down that path, your ability to reject poor workmanship is severely hampered.

Also, and perhaps even more importantly, if hire companies had to pay the full cost of their customers' damage, then they may eventually reconsider their almost universal  "non-returnable damage waiver" policy, whereby the majority of the hirers pay for the often culpable damage of the few, that treat boats like dodgems.

Yes, yes, yes, 100% in agreement!

That damned damage waiver policy has a lot to answer for, in my honest opinion.

[Matt]

We were clobbered by a hirecraft at Reedham, tore of a fender and pushed us up the concrete mooring and pulled off the rubbing strake where they struck us. They never stopped. Took witness details and rang the hire company in question. They questioned why I rang them on a Sunday and did not wait until Monday. 5 minutes after the call ended they rang back saying the hirer said they had not hit anybody. I then disclosed the witness details and said I would stop by their yard. I did and then they down played it saying it was minor damage and not worth worrying about. So informed them that they had two choices- through our insurance company or Brooms will repair it and they can pay. They chose the Brooms route and the "minor damage" invoice was over £500.

 

 

[BuffaloBill]

We were rammed HARD at Sutton Staithe in May 2010 to our Aquafibre 38 which actually lifted the topsides off the hull and punched a hole in the bow.

I immediately rang HW who said that they would be in contact shortly, and true to their word, they did. By Michael Whitaker. He came out within 30mins of the phonecall and saw the damage, spoke to the hirers, and then said that at the end of our trip, they would collect the boat from Wroxham, repair it, and then return it to our Marina. As it turned out, we dropped off the boat ourselves at HW and was told it would take about 2 weeks and they would ring when it was complete and then collect us from our mooring by car to take us to PH.

In short....The job was excellent and they even polished the hull for us while it out the water in their shed and even pumped the 2 toilet tanks for us, all free of charge and on time too. Good communication by phone to keep us up to date and shown the damage repairs by John Butler and Michael Whitaker when we arrived to pick her up.

Our experience was excellent service from them and no issues what-so-ever.

 

[NorfolkNog]

In fairness our recent experience was more akin to BB's. Following our recent  problems HW collected the boat from Wroxham and even refunded our fuel deposit in full. I certainly can't fault them for the way they have treated us.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

Our experience was excellent service from them and no issues what-so-ever.

 

1 hour ago, NorfolkNog said:

In fairness our recent experience was more akin to BB's. Following our recent  problems HW collected the boat from Wroxham and even refunded our fuel deposit in full. I certainly can't fault them for the way they have treated us.

It's good to hear that they were true to their promise and did such a good job.

However, is it still worth taking the risk of agreeing to let a hire yard attempt the repairs ?

It's a no-going back decision, which could end up costing you a great deal of money or a devalued boat, to say nothing of inconvenience and confrontation.

Over the years on this forum, there have been so many instances of poor repairs by hire yards in the same circumstances.

[LondonRascal]

I know this is fast turning into a discussion about hire yards and insurance but when it comes to insurance generally, but there is a big difference between a cosmetic scrap and bang and incidents where actual structural damage or a larger more complex repair is involved. 

Not all, but most boat owners are not going to keep the boat they have bought for life this means it is an asset to them both financially and for also as to their enjoyment using the boat.

Let us take an example whereby a private owner suffered major damaged through the result of being in collision with a hire boat. Let us also presume that the boatyard that hired the boat accepted liability on behalf of their customer and agreed at no cost to the private owner to repair all damage.

It sounds like a win win situation for all parties...But is it really?

By going along with the above the private owner has relinquished so many avenues of recourse if things go wrong and conversely the hire yard undertaking the repairs know they have ‘washed their hands’ of the owner being able to claim more from them at a later date – even if the workmanship was not found to be ‘tip-top’ this would be especially difficult when the work that was carried out by the hire yard was done for free. 

Now, let us think ahead when the owner comes to sell the boat. A shrewd prospective purchaser will have a full Survey carried out and this may throw up some of the issues from the repair made in the past, this may result in a very much lower price being sought or that the boat be repaired to a better standard prior to purchase at the expense of the current owner. 

In such case it is hard for the owner of the boat to then try to get anywhere – certainly the hire yard who carried out the repair would not wish to play ball and the buck, so to speak, lands at the wallet of the owner.

Now if such had been dealt with through an insurer matters become far more formal, there is a paper trail, estimates bills and the insurance company would be the people to chase if such repairs were not done to the right standard by their ‘approved boatyard’.  There is a clear value here, money does pass between insurer and boatyard and through it would not be easy by any means, should there be evidence at a later date backed up by a qualified Surveyor such repair had not been done properly or meant there was a risk to the boats structure or safety it would be the insurer could be pursued to pay to have such put right (and they may in turn chase the boatyards insurers for payment on an indemnity basis). 

So if it was me and anything more serious was to happen I would like that ’official route’ to be taken even if it meant that the premium thereafter was a little higher I would certainly feel more comfortable that there was something, an avenue to go down if things were not done properly.  Also, often when an insurer is involved there is a small warranty on the works – 3 months for example.

I am not saying that a fender being broken, a rubbing strake scuffed, paint chipped needs insurers – but sprung planks, deformed decks etc certainly should.

 

[JennyMorgan]

Perhaps it could be argued that HW & others are doing what they can to avoid involving insurance companies. Suspect that the 'damage waiver' is quite an earner whilst the inevitable rise in insurance policies if everyone took that route would surely hit profits.hard.

[JawsOrca]

Robin, Problem with that approach is I suspect there's lots of boats about who are only third party. Intentionally or un-Intentionally.

Like you should there be a major impact we would always go through our own insurer, (although having seen a certain yards work (and being surveyed post that repair)  I would be happy for them to do any other repair), although from this experience you may find your own insurer will ask if you are happy for the yard to fix.. your own insurer will probably not send a surveyor (If the other party offer fix) and they don't send a surveyor to inspect post repairs, so it will be down to you to get the boat surveyed (out the water) after the repairs if you are worried and that isn't cheap.. Thus it's probably cheaper to take the risk...

I would think most yards would repair to a good standard (thankfully the one we used for Orca did a good job).  Also it may not be a quick task when you get your insurers involved.  Sadly with fibreglass (as JanetAnne keeps reminding me!! )  any repair is always going to be a repair, it can be obvious and therefore even if well done it will probably be noticed at survey.  Our new boat has a professional repair (you can see as the jel coat don't quite match) but it hasn't affected the value of the boat. You may find you will get a picky seller who wants an emulate boat but I doubt anyone will be that fussy, if they are it's best to keep looking for a buyer.

So yup my advice. If the other party/boatyard offer to repair then it's probably better to go with that. (contact your insurer for advice) then get the boat surveyed before accepting the boat back (That should help the repairers do the best job).

Fingers crossed we never have to go through such thing. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JawsOrca said:

Robin, Problem with that approach is I suspect there's lots of boats about who are only third party. Intentionally or un-Intentionally.

That's an interesting thought Alan, I wonder......

My boats represent a very significant outlay of my overall finances, so I've never had anything less than comprehensive insurance. They would be difficult to replace otherwise.

Especially with the large increase in UK wide thefts over the years.

Even when I just had sailing dinghies, they were fully insured.

I doubt whether many private owners of boats on here that are worth many thousands of pounds would risk just third party insurance.....

[ranworthbreeze]

1 hour ago, Strowager said:

That's an interesting thought Alan, I wonder......

My boats represent a very significant outlay of my overall finances, so I've never had anything less than comprehensive insurance. They would be difficult to replace otherwise.

Especially with the large increase in UK wide thefts over the years.

Even when I just had sailing dinghies, they were fully insured.

I doubt whether many private owners of boats on here that are worth many thousands of pounds would risk just third party insurance.....

Hello Strowager,

I thought that as part of Broads Authority toll that the boats insurance had to have a 2 million pounds public liability  as part of the insurance, somehow I don't think that would be covered by third party insurance.

Most of the larger marinas are asking for similar cover these days, where it was a question on our mooring renewal this year our marina asked for a copy of the cover.

Maybe its all box ticking, who knows?

Regards

Alan 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Hello Strowager,

I thought that as part of Broads Authority toll that the boats insurance had to have a 2 million pounds public liability  as part of the insurance, somehow I don't think that would be covered by third party insurance.

£2 million public liability is in fact quite common with even just third party boat insurance Alan.

Many years ago when I was well into dinghies at sailing clubs, most of them required 2 million public liability insurance, and in fact it is fairly standard on both third party and comprehensive boat policies.

Here's the exact wording from the BA website at

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/owning-a-boat/tolls/insurance-and-adjacent-waters

"Owners of boats are required to have third party insurance with a minimum cover of £2 million.
An exception is made for unpowered craft with a block area of less than 6m2.
You must sign an insurance declaration when you pay for your annual or short visit toll."