Herbert Woods....

[Guest]

Public liability is a form of third party liabilty (very simply, party 1 = you, the insured, party 2 = the insurer, party 3 = everyone else). My (comprehensive) policy summary, for example, only mentions third party liability, not public liability (which is more likely to be covered separately in a commercial/business policy).

Edited March 24, 2016 by Guest
Clarification

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Spider said:

Public liability is a form of third party liabilty (very simply, party 1 = you, the insured, party 2 = the insurer, party 3 = everyone else). My (comprehensive) policy summary, for example, only mentions third party liability, not public liability (which is more likely to be covered separately in a commercial/business policy).

Yes, I incorrectly restated Alan's "public liability" rather than the correct "third party liability" statement..

The BA require a minimum of £2 million pounds third party cover, as per their text that I quoted on their website.

Here's a link to a typical boat insurance cover, by Newton Crum:

https://www.newtoncrum.com/Insurance/Powercraft

They go even further, by giving a standard £5 million indemnity for third party or comprehensive.......

 

[Oddfellow]

On one hand, we're singing the praises of Herbert Woods, (but it might be any hire operator) and then we're telling people that we don't trust hire companies to do a repair job. 

In all cases, the hire company has a reputation to uphold; whether it is letting a boat or repairing a boat. Many hire operators do private work too, so by association people are suggesting that even if you pay a particular company you'll get an unacceptable job. 

I find this very hard to take. My reputation starts and ends with the quality of my work and service, whether to a hirer or a private boat owner. 

Some people talk about the true cost of repairs. What's that about? Don't you realise that if staff are busy repairing a boat for free that they are unable to earn money whilst they carry out that repair? If that's not a true cost, I don't know what is. It all comes off the bottom line; it's just in this case, it comes off in a reduction in income rather than a direct expenditure in terms of labour. 

 

 

 

[JawsOrca]

Hi Andy... As you have seen there is one yard up there who I wouldn't trust to get anywhere near my boat... Funnily our insurer never dared asked if that was an option for us... They knew the answer  .  The majority of yards are without doubt brilliant but sadly from experience now, there's exceptions

[Oddfellow]

Not a hire operator, though.

In any walk of life there are good and bad. You're sometimes able to tell from the cost, but not always. 

 

 

 

[JawsOrca]

2 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Not a hire operator, though.

 No not a current operator but an experienced yard.  

This aside the service I had from people like yourself and others did restore my faith  

I'm sure you will agree though Robins advise of getting your own insurer involve is good advise to protect ones own interest. Sadly our own insurance surveyor put a recommendation on Orca's policy which meant I had to get her resurveyed after the repair to get insurance again so that's something people need to be aware off to..

Apols for drifting off  

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

On one hand, we're singing the praises of Herbert Woods, (but it might be any hire operator) and then we're telling people that we don't trust hire companies to do a repair job. 

In all cases, the hire company has a reputation to uphold; whether it is letting a boat or repairing a boat. Many hire operators do private work too, so by association people are suggesting that even if you pay a particular company you'll get an unacceptable job. 

I find this very hard to take. My reputation starts and ends with the quality of my work and service, whether to a hirer or a private boat owner. 

 

Quite right Andy, any reputable hire company does indeed have a reputation to uphold.

If a customer hires a boat or pays for work to be done on their private boat, then a normal contract is entered into, and the customer can expect a satisfactory result or take the matter further.

The crucial point in discussion here though, is that if a private boat owner allows a hire yard to carry out repairs on their insured craft in lieu of making a proper claim, they lose the right to reject the repair workmanship if it should prove unsatisfactory.

Yes, most hire companies do indeed have very high standards of workmanship, quite apparent from the appearance of their fleets.

It's still an unfortunate fact over the years though,  a number of private owners have had unsatisfactory repairs carried out by hire yards when done in lieu of making a proper claim through their insurers.

 

Like Timbo's post, on this thread, to name just one......

On 24/03/2016 at 0:26 AM, Timbo said:

We'd been a regular customer of Herbert Woods for over forty years, never had a major problem...odd break down sure...but nothing to complain about...until we bought our own boat and got rammed by some half wit in a HW bathtub. Advised to be a 'gentleman' and let HW do the repair. Three years later I'm just about to start on the last of the repairs myself that HW were supposed to do and maybe get my boat back out on the water again...fingers crossed. HW just poked some putty between some sprung planks...which fell out a week later... and ignored the collapsed deck, canopy, bulkhead etc etc. Lesson learned...let my insurance company deal with any incident in the future.

[Poppy]

1 hour ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

On one hand, we're singing the praises of Herbert Woods, (but it might be any hire operator) and then we're telling people that we don't trust hire companies to do a repair job. 

In all cases, the hire company has a reputation to uphold; whether it is letting a boat or repairing a boat. Many hire operators do private work too, so by association people are suggesting that even if you pay a particular company you'll get an unacceptable job. 

 

 

 

 

In my view, it's not necessarily the unacceptability or otherwise of a job, it's the entire issue of the iniquitous 'damage waiver' system. It leaves some hirers under the impression  that bumping into other boats doesn't much matter - to them, anyhow !

And some yards expect to (and undoubtedly do) make money out of the payments.

[JennyMorgan]

Andy, fair comment, but some yards are better than others & reserve the right to choose who might repair my boat. Some yards do not 'do' wooden boats any longer, in any case I would most definitely wish to choose. 

I'm sure that I am not alone in being out on the water most days of the season, I do see which yards maintain their fleet well & those who obviously don't. October is the best time of the year to pass judgement on that one, some boats look almost as spi*k and span as they did back in April, others very clearly showing the scars of a summer's hard work. Some yards care more than others, I would prefer to avoid those that don't, even if they are capable of top class repairs.

As for valuation, a boat that has been repaired doesn't normally command as high a price as a similar one that hasn't been damaged, fact of life. 

Poppy, as usual, is bang on the money with this one.

Regarding the use of the word S-P-I-C-K, why on earth should the super sensitive auto censor take exception to that? Presumably another good English word hijacked by some US minority group?

 

[Guest]

No, rather a US majority group. In the US it is a derogatory term applied to some ethnic minority groups - mainly South American, I think.

[Guest]

Referring to their inability to "speak" English - so you can see the derivation! 

[JennyMorgan]

Obviously I live a sheltered life! That aside, this is Gt Britain.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Regarding the use of the word S-P-I-C-K, why on earth should the super sensitive auto censor take exception to that? Presumably another good English word hijacked by some US minority group?

"another good word hijacked by some US minority group"........

Quite so Peter. Like my occasional use of the perfectly legitimate and common word q-u-e-e-r.

As fast as our vocabulary grows with new buzzwords like "selfie", we find so many fall into disrepute because of PC taken to extremes.

Auto sensor applications will eventually  need to take context into account or it will become difficult to make a coherent sentence.

Many years ago I was in a group of programmers that had to construct an auto sensor from scratch.

In those days it was sufficient to only focus on the literal (eg four letter) words.

How times have changed.....

[vanessan]

About 5 years ago we were rammed in the bow by a large Alphacraft boat at Reedham. The helmsman was trying to leave the moorings with the wind and tide and both were strong at the time. He had been moored around 150 feet in front of us with nothing in between us and clearly had no idea how to get himself away. As it was quite early in the morning we were actually still in bed but the severe jolt soon got us up to find him still trying to get free of us. We were left with a damaged hull although luckily nothing too serious. To cut a long story short, having contacted Alphacraft, we were accused of trying to get damage we had done repaired on the cheap. The hirers apparently maintained they had hardly touched us! No witnesses around either but I had taken photos of the damage to send to Alphacraft. After a lot of tooing and froing, the damage was finally taken care of but it was an unpleasant experience. If (more like 'when'!) something similar happens, I would certainly go through my insurance company. It might be useful for us to have some sort of checklist to use in the event of an incident and this could be used by both hirer and privateer. Something along the lines of:

Note boat name, registration number and hire yard if appropriate

Obtain helmsman's name

Get details of hemsman's insurance if appropriate

Take photos of damage to boat/s

Get names and contact details of any witnesses

It seems from reading this thread that most hire boatyards are sympathetic to incidents but my experience with Alphacraft was certainly not that. 

 

[Matt]

33 minutes ago, vanessan said:

About 5 years ago we were rammed in the bow by a large Alphacraft boat at Reedham. The helmsman was trying to leave the moorings with the wind and tide and both were strong at the time. He had been moored around 150 feet in front of us with nothing in between us and clearly had no idea how to get himself away. As it was quite early in the morning we were actually still in bed but the severe jolt soon got us up to find him still trying to get free of us. We were left with a damaged hull although luckily nothing too serious. To cut a long story short, having contacted Alphacraft, we were accused of trying to get damage we had done repaired on the cheap. The hirers apparently maintained they had hardly touched us! No witnesses around either but I had taken photos of the damage to send to Alphacraft. After a lot of tooing and froing, the damage was finally taken care of but it was an unpleasant experience. If (more like 'when'!) something similar happens, I would certainly go through my insurance company. It might be useful for us to have some sort of checklist to use in the event of an incident and this could be used by both hirer and privateer. Something along the lines of:

Note boat name, registration number and hire yard if appropriate

Obtain helmsman's name

Get details of hemsman's insurance if appropriate

Take photos of damage to boat/s

Get names and contact details of any witnesses

It seems from reading this thread that most hire boatyards are sympathetic to incidents but my experience with Alphacraft was certainly not that. 

 

Quite a similar experience to mine above.....

 

same me company as well.

[SwanR]

On 11 March 2016 at 3:23 PM, BroadScot said:

Just had an email from Herbert Woods offering "free fuel" on hires over  Easter. Anyone else receive a similar mail?

Iain

This has certainly wandered way off topic! 

[BroadScot]

57 minutes ago, SwanR said:

This has certainly wandered way off topic! 

Very true, Jean, but I have had another mail from HW....  http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=3b9d161caf6bb9ad264cb395d&id=92364d8d61&e=63dc11297a so a tad back on thread! 

Iain

[Oddfellow]

Well, Alphacraft is no longer operating and the damage waiver system is solidly in place. I would happily change to a system of deposits, but it is likley to be business suicide for me if the rest of the industry does not do this en-masse. I think it is unlikely to be honest. 

More likely is the opposite - all inclusive. We started this move in 2007 when we published headline prices including the fuel deposits and four years ago, Ferry Marina went all inclusive. Nobody else on the Broads has yet moved in this direction, but I think it is a more likely forward step than one of reverting to deposits again. 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Well, Alphacraft is no longer operating and the damage waiver system is solidly in place. I would happily change to a system of deposits, but it is likley to be business suicide for me if the rest of the industry does not do this en-masse. I think it is unlikely to be honest. 

More likely is the opposite - all inclusive. We started this move in 2007 when we published headline prices including the fuel deposits and four years ago, Ferry Marina went all inclusive. Nobody else on the Broads has yet moved in this direction, but I think it is a more likely forward step than one of reverting to deposits again. 

I can completely understand your problem there Andy.

Yes, your business would indeed suffer if you were the only boatyard that didn't give hirers the soft option of the damage waiver.

It's still unfair to private owners though, as other posters on this forum have found.

Although the overwhelming majority of hirers do respect other people's, (and your) property, the small remainder have no financial incentive to avoid hitting other craft.

[NorfolkNog]

would it be in idea to start a thread on damage waivers/ general damage to private craft??

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, NorfolkNog said:

would it be in idea to start a thread on damage waivers/ general damage to private craft??

Oops, too late...... 

Agreed though,

.....for a thread simply entitled "Herbert Woods" it has wandered a bit, (partly my fault too)....

[Stranger]

main argument i have over Woods is the return of your fuel deposit  "we have to return your cash to your bank account or credit card" to stop money laundering  what a load of cobblers  no problem with Rickos returned when you return the boat not up to 10 days later

[vanessan]

12 minutes ago, Stranger said:

main argument i have over Woods is the return of your fuel deposit  "we have to return your cash to your bank account or credit card" to stop money laundering  what a load of cobblers  no problem with Rickos returned when you return the boat not up to 10 days later

Probably a ploy to avoid having to have a shedload of cash available. In all the years I hired I always got cash back from the yard immediately. As for ‘money laundering’, that’s the flimsiest excuse imaginable! I think the few pounds involved would hardly qualify for that.