TheQ

I tend to use xcweather which is meant for pilots, if anyone is going to get it right they will http://www.xcweather.co.uk

I only kick up a wash, if I'm sailing and it's half a gale!!!! Maybe this afternoon or tomorrow looking at the forecast!!

"Humour! If you don't like it, have a quiet little 'tut' and move on!" Shall we go up river or down river?

That may be something I have to use, once I have fitted my 240V system, until I next get the boat lifted and get a permanent installation.

There needs to be a circuit to make the anodes erode, the only way I can see that happening would be for power to enter the boat somewhere, Propshaft? and then loop back to the anode for that to happen, with an external source they would have to be VERY close. Or did the owner have a battery charger connected for sometime as that would complete the circuit, because I doubt they would have a galvanic isolator on an extention lead!! Also on the broads we have an interesting problem, If you only use the boat in: Fresh water the anodes should be Magniesium, Brackish water the anodes should be Aluminum, Salt water the anodes should be Zinc, So depending on where your boat is based, depends on what type you need , the wrong type and it will erode very rapidly or not give you protection. (There are other considerations depending on hull / prop / propshaft / outdrive, materials as well)

Everything is a question of risk, And actually there are laws which do cover this, since You are responsible should there be an accident. Now, there is no law that anything needs P.A.T. testing (yes I know it's not actually called that anymore) anywhere, only that it is the responsibility of the owner and user of any Electrical equipment for it to be safe. The regulations on Electrical installations fixed and portable are there, But no one I've ever heard of, has their electric lawn mower or kettle checked at home ( there is no specific requirement to do so, but you are still responsible for your equipment should family or visitor get injured), and I would bet there are many more accidents with them, than electricity on the water. Now I P.A.T. a couple of clubs ( model railway and Sailing) I belong to, I also do my own mains leads and Equipment. But I would say It's likely that my boat will probably be the only Non hire boat to be checked in this way. The Problem of whether to earth or not earth all metal equipment on board is an interesting one. Do you just use Live and Neutral with no earth? This actually seems to be the way the world is going with more and more equipment having no earth and so relying on "double insulation". It is something I can see the merits of both ways. Since an RCD does not need earth to work, it just looks at the Live and Neutral and looks for an imbalance (because the extra power is going through YOU). Most homes 99% of the time are protected by the RCD and not the earth. The Earth is just for that exceedlingly rare occurance on something going short to the metal case. How many mains operated metal cased Items are there these days? at most cooker, toaster, microwave , fridge / freezer, dish and clothes washers. How many have you ever heard of them going short to metalwork? (I know Beko equipment keeps catching fire but thats not Short to metalwork) I do think that ALL of that household equipment will soon be supplied double insulated. As for galvanic isolation, it's your boat and if you wish to risk your boat by not having an Galvanic isolator or Isolation transformer it'll be your wallet that pays...

Yes WD40 is a non conductor of Electricity, there wouldn't be much point in displacing the water off of cables, if it wasn't.!! It's propellant theses days is CO2, which is also a non conductor (CO2 is used in Fire extinguishers for electrical fires.) You do have to be carefull picking up cans marked WD40 now, as there has been "brand expansion" and some cans whch have WD40 as a brand label have in smaller print a different substance such as: Gell lubricant or Easing oil or engine degreaser!!!.

Well I'm sat here with 1000v, on bare connectors 1ft away from me and when I change the frequency, my fingers will be within 2 inches of the connectors. but that's the sort of thing I do. I used to have to do strange things like changing 3 Phase contacts, connected to the national grid while they were live or working on very large CRT's with covers off, and they needed a high voltages, as you can tell I didn't get that wrong or I wouldn't be typing this now. The only time even been burnt on the fingers from electricty was when some clown stole the light bulb from the wall mounted light above the head of my barrack room bed, I reached under to turn it on (the switch was next to the bulb connectors) and my fingers touched the bare pins of the bulb connector, leaving 2 small round burn marks and the air in the barrack room blue with language. As for life changing or near life changing I've not experienced that with work myself, But I know of two killed, doing the things I did, who did get it wrong. The nearest to a life changing was driving the car, a drunk driver pulled out in front of my my car, just outside Lanark race course. I was doing 50 when I hit the brakes, as I T boned him, the car floor pan rippled and I cut both legs and I had a beautiful bruise from the seat belt come up the next day. but other than that I was OK...

Actually WD40 IS not an easing oil, although it does often work that way, WD40 stands for Water Dispersant number 40, ( The 40th attempt to get it right!). It's designed purpose was to be sprayed onto things like ignition leads to expel water, which, if you've old ignition leads that don't like the cold and damp it it's extremely good at reviving.

Yep that useful sounds like option 1 to me.

I remember talking to someone about a chipshop that had been divided up, after a couple of years customers started feeling tingling as they leaned against a wall, over time this was getting worse and eventually an investigation was carried out. As part of the dividing of the shop a light switch pattress (back box) had been plastered over. But left connected to the mains, as the high humidity of the chipshop soaked into the wall the wall was becoming more and more live. ( i must assume that the power was off, when the wall was pastered and dried out orginally)

i see Vaughan is getting involved with "Adult Education".

Yep, I bought one of their chargers from Screwfix some years ago, I do like it a lot. They are available on the site of the very strong women and electronic site of the concave coastline as well. Though, If thats the way I go, then the site I linked to, has all the fittings which would make it convienent. There is a lot of interesting equipement on that site that could be used on boats.. Here's another thing I came across while reseaching info, for the questions on this thread, One site had a warning NOT to leave those 3 light reverse polarity detectors plugged in, they have enough leakage current to affect the operation of RCDs and the like!! So I think I'll have to add "Press to test Switch" to my shore power control panel. A double push to make should do it.

Jackpot!!! just found what I was looking for, a bit expensive £169, But a battery charger that can take 50V DC in and charge a 12 V battery. http://www.bushbatteries.co.uk/campervan-boat-electrics/contents/en-uk/d82_ring-rscdc30-microprocessor-split-charge.html "Ring Automotive" DC SmartChargerNew Lower Price!! Takes the energy from a vehicle's main battery (engine running) and converts it into multi-stage output for charging an auxiliary battery. Input voltage (starter battery bank) can be between 12v - 50v and output is 12 volts to charge a 12v leisure / auxiliary battery bank. Compensates for high voltage or a drop in voltage to maximise charge to auxiliary battery. Programmable for most battery types. 3-Stage smart charge output for optimal battery performance. Suitable for battery banks from 40-500Ah. Will work with smart alternators to deliver accurate charging voltage. Low battery shut off to protect main battery. Sleep mode to eliminate battery drain. Solar panel input with MPPT feature for charging at rest. Applications include utility vehicles, vans, motorhomes, caravans and boats. Manufacturer: Ring Automotive Model #: RSCDC30 Charge rate: 30amps Voltage input: 12v - 50v Voltage output: 12v Dimensions (mm): L 236mm x W 203mm x H 87mm Warranty 1 year Multi-stage charging: Yes Instructions included: Yes Installation difficulty rating:

Sadly SWMBO is not interested in sailing, (or hair straighteners) and taking all my venerable relatives out on trips in a sailing boat, is not an answer when they can barely get to the boat in the first place. Although it is the answer I'd prefer. I am an electronics Technician / engineer, so electronics to me is no more difficult than pulling bits of string during Horning regatta week. These pages and pages of discussion almost all depend on one (EARTH) point that even the UK authorities seem not to have made a recommendation on. Oh Vaughan, I've had a look at the Only X-splt I could find, It appears to be made by Driftgate 2000 ltd who's directors seem to have resigned in 2015!! SO if i go that route I'll probably uses something like. http://foundry4x4.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=173

Vicking 23. Yes, my system would be less efficient, except for: My electric motor is direct drive, so no Gearbox losses, A diesel has a gearbox for which you need to take the losses off for that. A diesel is less efficent when warming up (like my generator), at low revs it's less efficient as well. Some of my power comes from solar, So short trips from my mooring to the sailing club (or anywhere else) use no outside power source, where as the diesel would be very cold and inefficient for trips like that. If I've done a long trip and used power from the batteries, the generator will be warm and stay at high revs (more efficient)

Someone , Grendal? asked where the earth pin is connected to on an inverter, well, wading through dozens of Circuit diagrams and pages of information generally it seems the answer is.... nothing. Also the 240V is spread equally across the 2 pins so it is 240V relative to each output pin. I've been wading round many UK web sites (because the yanks do all sorts of strange things on their systems.) The conclusion I've found on UK Narrow boats WITH INVERTERS and generators, is that when running an inverter onboard you do not have an earth. This requires that your Shore power / inverter switch, switches Live, Neutral AND earth SO the alternatives are, 1, Onboard Earth, as Vaughan says, bonded to it's own sacrificial Anode. 2, OnBoard Earth, as the Yanks do, bonding AC earth and DC Low, together to a sacrificial anode. 3, No Onboard Earth, But if I choose that, then I would ensure ALL onboard electric equipment is double insulated. though the narrowboaters seem not to go for double insulated. My preference is for 1.

I will be buying an inverter as shown somewhere back in this monster I seem to have started, but going from 48V to 230V to 12V is electrically very wasteful with a lot of losses. My background is electronic maintenance and calibration, not design, because it should be a simple task to design a 48V to 15V dropping circuit followed by a charge controller. Integral to that would be a circuit to stop overdrawing of current from the 48V battery, and an "if all else fails button" to use more than you should, as you really do need to the generator started.

LondonRascal, I have actually fitted a similar system to your description, like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mitsubishi-2-5kW-Conditioner-System-SRK25ZMP-S/dp/B01BKWDK7G/ref=pd_sim_sbs_107_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=804PEZ40Z3R8T4YPV0C0 It went on Our Mobile home, and has been very successful. It came precharged with gas, and plugs into a normal mains Socket. It was a simple job to do, you do have to be careful making the pipe runs and gas connections as the copper tubing is very soft. There is a club member that has such a system with the exterior unit sat on the rear roof of his boat, however he did bring the boat back from the south of france where the need for such a system was somewhat more than here.. Reading the thread on "unexpected visitors" would make me worry about having the exterior unit on the swim platform. Right, thats enough of me catching up with the thread, time for others to stick their oar in

Oh two points I missed, Even if a sacrificial anode is not fitted to the boat, many boats have a route to Earth on Negative DC through the engine , propshaft , prop. Also this blog, http://worcesternb.blogspot.co.uk/ has a detailed system similar to that installed on my boat and is what Inspired me to go for the system I have. I have been in contact with Mr Osborne and must get round to sending a few pics of the installation, when I get some decent ones. I'll put them on here too...

Vaughan, My Motor boat has a 10KW 3 phase electric motor, this comes from a Box of tricks that converts the 48VDC of the battery pack , into 3 phase AC, the dashboard just has a simple "throttle" lever (a potentiometer) and a battery level left meter on it. You can use full power just from the batteries, however every time you do that you are eating into the number of battery recharge cycles you have left. So if I'm not just trickling across from my mooring to the sailing club, I'll start the generator, then as you use more power you can hear the genny loading up, it takes power more from the genny than the batteries at that point. The Genny cannot drive the Motor without the batteries, there are quite severe warnings about that in the genny manual. As a help to keep the batteries charged there are also solar panels on the roof of the boat, and if I've just done the trip across the river only, then the panels can replace the power used.

"They also suggest (can't remember the paragraph) that there is a risk of electric shock from an inverter installed in this way, in a boat. The neg on the batteries is a return not an earth so why the hell would you put a 24v ac earth onto a 12v dc return? Charlie" Actually on many boats 12DC negative IS an earth , because 12DV is connected to the Engine Block / Starter motor, which is connected to a sacrificial Anode attached to the hull in the water, That gives you earth on the Negative DC line. I'm not saying that is the best way of finding earth, just that some authorities such as the USA one shown demand that all negative DC and AC earths are bonded together. This Is not uncommon on land based systems, I have worked on many equipments , where Negative DC of 5V ,12V, 24V or more, is bonded to the same earth as ACV. I've also suffered from the odd shock when it failed as well..

If you follow the American system shown by BroadScot links (Projectzen), then Mains earth and DC Low are connected together. Since an engine, metal work and the Sacrificial Anode are connected to DC Low then it's the Sacrificial Anode that provides the earth. Better alternatives than this, no one has yet suggested. Although... I wonder if you could have a one anode for the engine and your metal work and another separate anode for AC earth? I would have liked to keep my Starter battery totally separate from the drive system, but as the Panda-Fischer is a quiet boxed unit, there is absolutely no provision for a separate alternator nor anywhere to fit one. it is a most peculiar omission by Panda -Fischer

The worry would be if I'm wanting to start the generator, then any 6 of the 2v batteries might not have enough voltage / current left, to charge the starter battery. I could do with a circuit that would use 12 or all 24 of the 2V batteries to charge the 12V battery to full charge.

Right now you mention battery charges here's a problem I do have to sort. The panda - fisher generator charges a stack of 24, 2v traction batteries. What it doesn't have is a 12v charging circuit for its own car type starter battery. What would be the best way of charging this battery when not on shore power, note I do have a small solar trickle charger.