marshman

I know my views frequently are different to those of others but what is it that people expect free moorings? I pay my taxes and my local taxes through my rates, which pay for my car parks, but I do not whinge constantly about paying to park my car? (Well I do!!) I just accept it as part of life. If I go to many places, not only do I pay to go in, often you pay to park as well. When I fly from Stansted, the airport provide me with a car park and I seemingly willingly pay to park - yet the airline I am flying with also pay to use the airport to provide facilities for their passengers. If I want to go to a beach, and not necessarily stop in a grass field owned by the council, I still have to pay the owner of the land to park. Except where leased, the BA do not own river banks but even if someone puts in and supplies facilities, why should they not charge?

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24013813.richardsons-leisure-reveals-plans-hemsby-stalham/

All very interesting but I don't see anywhere what you could be expected to do if you have double the amount of rain expected over a couple of months as we have just had. Perhaps the EA should just hand out more buckets but I have to say, we have seen far less damage than other communities around the country. Of course some damage will have been seen but I do NOT include in those possible claims by those landowners who have tried to turn the flood plains into arable land. Eventually they would have come under threat at some time - its called commercial risk. I guarantee come May when the grazing rights are put up for auction for the season, they will all have recovered and the cattle will be happy chewing the cud as before, and f**ting methane!! Why encourage bad husbandry - it was always going to be a risk and the toss of the penny as against them this year - for what its worth, perhaps they should let the natural habitat be restored. Interfering with nature always must carry a risk

Andrew - the trouble with tidal barriers are twofold - or perhaps more! Firstly the water will just find another place to go - it won't just disappear! Whilst I appreciate its difficult to think of GY disappearing its hold on the land could be tenuous for the very reason Grendel mentioned. The Thames Barrier was, and is, a major success but at the same time they had to build new, and higher, defences all around in many of the creeks and rivers, just for that reason. The other problem is that the ebb tides are always flushing silt out of the system and again, that silt would accumulate. Breydon as we recognise it today is a very different place to what it was 200 or more years ago. Before they built GY harbour and dredged the channel, built the walls and altered the bar, Breydon was more similar to a Broad, which is why early books show wildfowlers living on it in houseboats etc. It certainly had more water in it at low tide than just a mere channel as it is today - or so I believe! Again I suspect it was The Law of Unintended Consequences getting a look in again!!!!

You are probably right but the death knell of canals etc was well under way by then as the railways had even arrived in Norfolk! Even Norfolk was covered in railways by then and transport by water, with a degree of uncertainty attached, was undoubtedly second best!

The Broads have always had saltwater surges and they have always caused problem for fish - hence the barrier at Herbert Woods and the report of dead fish at Upton. This has been exacerbated currently however by the fresh water coming downstream caused by excessive rainfall - with the ground already water logged, further rainfall will not soak away, even on higher ground. Around where I live it is almost impossible to walk that far along any road before you come up against a large puddle its often impossible to skirt without wellies - exacerbated by the fact the excessively large tractors continue to stray off the road onto the grass verges blocking drains and any gullies. Just up the road nearby, they have only just lifted the last potatoes and today they were doing the sugar beet opposite - quite literally the road was 4/5" deep in liquid mud, although to be fair they did have a sign out "Mud on Road" ! It was almost impossible to drive along and the tractors were struggling in the field with fully loaded trailers - I do wonder what damage is being done to soil structure by these very heavy machines. I have rarely seen such mud, and this on light soil or old heathlands.

As the wind causing the surge was NW and associated with Storm Pia, it was obviously a bit of a good thing that it was neaps - it was still more than 1.5 m over predicted levels, neaps or no neaps. Had it been springs, the surge could well have been worse and caused even more problems!

To be fair Steve, the situation is not really comparable at all. Any surge coming down the North Sea is effectively "stopped" to some extent by the Dover Straits which acts like a neck of a bottle and in relative terms the Romney Marsh is quite a small area - neither does it have any major rivers draining through it. Someone somewhere may know the actual figure, but the catchment area of the 3 main rivers draining out through GY is enormous - I doubt its much less than 1500 sq miles! (Thats a total guess off the top of my head!) If the BA were responsible for drainage of fields and marshes, then your tolls may be even higher - thats down to the IDB's who generally cope quite well but like many places they can only cope with a certain amount that falls out of the sky!! What occurred last night was just not a very high tide, aided and abetted by a NW breeze, but a classic example of a (blocking) tide where the tide didn't just go out very much if at all -see here https://ntslf.org/data/realtime?port=Lowestoft and the chart for Brundall above

The tide at Lowestoft was 1.5m above predicted level but thankfully, after not going out very far at all on the following low tide, it now seems to be returning to more predictable levels. I suspect other places other than the Broads were affected up and down the East Coast too

Wind again I expect!

My apologies to you all and Dom - the restrictions by the lock sizes I gave were for the NWDC canal, not the Aylsham Navigation!! They were 54' length and width 13'9" up to Buxton and 12'8" above, But Dom you have made one classic error in assuming that the two surviving wherries were typical - even in those days they were big and a more typical wherry could have been perhaps nearer 40'. Indeed some of the tiddlers were only around 25/30' long plenty small enough for the width of the navigation above Coltishall - walk it these days and you will see that it was plenty large enough for them to pass! Don't forget the winter occupation of wherrymen, was cutting any trees down - it has only relatively recently the luxuriant riverside growth has appeared! They did that to reduce the quanting!! And talking of excess water which is covered at length in another thread , nothing compares with the storm of 26th August 1912 when the whole of the area was devastated. 15,000 people had properties destroyed especially in Norwich and it effectively destroyed the Aylsham Navigation. Buxton Lock was destroyed, famously trapping the wherry Zulu, and road bridges at Coltishall and Ludham Bridge were washed away. That day over 8" of rain fell in under 24 hours! Some storm - bet they would have named that one!!

The official measurements of the locks were 50' long, 12'4" wide with a 3'draught - no doubt the slipping keel arrangement was used as the Canal was always short of water. The term wherry is pretty generic and on the Thames were often just passenger skiffs - the Norfolk Wherry was specifically built for the Broadland navigations to carry cargo

Thats quite interesting and I note the Bridgwater Barrier work is going to happen - as a result some 13000 homes and many business premises will be protected. But if you read the current objectives, it is designed to stop a high tide coming in and flooding the Somerset Levels which in many cases are below sea level But there are not direct parallels with the situation here surely ? We have seen extensive flooding of marshes and some "marginal" agricultural land but has life been in danger? Indeed the main effect has been the flooding, with fresh water, of what is often just summer grazing marshes - my guess is that in summer 2024 they will still be full of cattle as the grass will regrow and the land will be back to normal. I also believe few properties were directly affected, other than those that you would expect, and there have not, to my knowledge, been reports of the " new" river walls being breached. I am sure the EA are well aware of whats happening and if I recall, did put out a report somewhere where I cannot find anymore ( just found it!!) Whats is worth remembering, and highlighted in this report, and which I have mentioned before, is keeping the balance right - removing silt further downstream may enable the salt surges to encroach further inland and everyone knows what happens, I suspect, if you increase, salinity too much. It impacts the whole eco system , and the first impact is on the fish population and then beyond, in fact it could destroy much of the Broads as we know it. As I frequently comment, beware of what you wish for and the Laws of Unintended Consequences.

The Race results will, I guess, still be held, by the clubs concerned. I bet that certainly Wroxham will have theirs, Horning too but you are facing an almost impossible task without knowing the name of the boat. Almost certainly the owners name or the skippers name will be recorded but you are asking a lot without a name. I guess many names will be familiar as a number will still be around, but if not even you remember the name of the boat, my guess it is it will be an uphill battle!!

So on that hypothesis, don't fall over on board or bump into anything, as that could feasibly fire your jacket - perhaps thats a specific jacket type but generally I believe the firing mechanism shouldn't fire until its immersed in water and only then will the pin fire to activate the inflator cartridge.

I don't think that actually happens - you should be able to do it quite tight as it is the firing mechanism that fires the pin to pierce the cylinder - there would be no point at all in it going off just by screwing the bottom bit up tightly. If that were the case, a mere trip on the deck could inadvertently fire it and it is the firing mechanism that has to get wet, before the pin fires. The two parts are entirely separate and screw into the either end but don't touch until the firing mechanism actually fires the pin to pierce the cylinder. Please correct me if I am wrong but thats what the You Tube videos seem to state and thats what I have always done without mishap.

Still on the safety issue, whilst it is always important to check the date on your little gas bottle, it is always important to ensure you still have one! The bottles have to tendency to work loose, and it merely takes a few seconds or so, as you are putting your lifejacket on to check firstly, you actually have a little bottle attached, and secondly it is done up!!!!!

Suggest it to GYBC - I think they basically run it??? Sadly I think the lockers would last about a week in GY before they were all broken into by the locals.

Vaughan - thanks for the launching pictures! Reawakened some hidden memories!!!! That bit of the brain not used for 50 years or so!!!!

Still there as far as I am aware - it would be cheaper now to build another one rather than sort the Lord Roberts out. She was in a bit of a state when she was moved to Wroxham, and I doubt she is any better now! I suppose as she is probably nearly completely submerged, it will help to preserve her! It is hard enough to keep the existing wherries going and running without adding another and to what end, I wonder?

Two slight hazards - Postwick flyover limited to 35' so mind any sticky up things but modern coasters dont have them but Trowse bridge may be more difficult! Requires a couple ( or so ) Network Rail or whatever gangs and you can only it between 2 a.m. and 4 a.m !! And bizarrely around 9 a.m on a Sunday morning - and oh, you need to give 7 days notice! Norfolk County Council also want to weld shut Carrow Bridge but thats a dispute ongoing with the BA who confirm the 1920 legislation remains valid. So indeed an Act of Parliament would be needed I guess, despite other practical difficulties in sailing your coaster in for an official visit!!!!

Bells used to have a boat shaped shallow dyke into which boats were dragged straight away - launchings I guess were always done at high water and as they sat on the bottom almost immediately, water was not too much of a problem although they did have have a few smaller pumps around to cope with differing conditions The mud was pretty soft and boats being lighter in those days enabled you to drag them in pretty sharpish and use the smaller pumps than those Vaughan talks about. Launching was always quick - they used to have an old adapted bomb trolley to move stuff around and an old farm tractor to push and shove as required. Used greased wooden ways and someone had to slap the the stuff on......!!!!

Don't think its as bad as it was but we have had quite a bit of rain this week so wouldn't be surprised much if it comes back up again - thats the nature of having more rain!!!

As explored elsewhere on this thread, there are a myriad of reasons but chiefly a huge change in social habits over the last ten years - why go to a pub for a drink? Most people go the the fridge - its cheaper and more convenient. Just see from this thread alone how many pubs all around are closing? The few survivors will have to provide a good reason to go there, and if the food is not up to a better than "acceptable" standard then they won't go there just for a drink. Personally I don't think the mooring fee has had any impact - if it had then the Granary would not be doing well! When I have been to the Granary, I tend to book - says a lot too that people will drive to the Granary. Would that many drive to the Malsters for a drink let alone a meal - I doubt it except on a lovely summers evening but even then?

All of them i guess!!!