marshman

I was going to say something a bit obvious, but promised to keep out of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ST - sometimes with respect, you have not a scooby how or what I am thinking!!!! I have no relationship at all with the BA, nor do I have any knowledge of the BA's intentions in respect of their future intentions nor have I ever given any indication of what my personal preferences as to NP status is - you are merely making assumptions and as is often the case, making assumptions merely leads you down the wrong path!! I merely like, as do a few others, to point out that there are two sides to every story and my comments should be often be taken to put things in perspective. You state quite "deafeningly" that the Sandford Principle will apply - do you have an inside track into what any such legislation, even if it were to be suggested, would actually say? Perhaps the Broads could still be excluded? No one has any real idea, so lets not keep guessing both as to my preferences and the Governments legislative timetable or its intentions and save any further discussion until, or if, any real indications are seen. Crying wolf every five minutes has long seen to be one of the least effective ways of taking action so lets all just enjoy ourselves until such time as action is actually needed. We act on this Forum as if it talks for the majority of Broadland views and opinions - often it is in fact the minority and a mouthpiece of those that "shout" the loudest And no, equally, I have no intention of apologising to Tom - he doesn't expect it, it isn't necessary, and a bit like MM I shall desist for the time being, as if history repeats itself, any thoughts I have, will be in minority and further assumptions made about me, will be probably wrong again too!!! I shall comment no further at this time for fear of bringing the crowd down on my head!!!!

If Tom has any sense he would not even bother to comment - it is just a few people regurgitating an age old argument that just goes on, and on and on....!! It IS'NT a National Park, just called one, and we all know what is required for it to become one - IMHO that is not likely to happen at this time so lets all save our breath until then - as I have said time and time again, this "ranting" by some people over and over again, loses its impact after a while.

Theres the rub!!! It is more difficult to get old fashioned hemp or manila these days - sadly in this modern world even "modern" hemp ropes are largely synthetic and we currently use 3 strand hempex or polyhemp - look and feel like hemp but taste differently! And more importantly have a significantly higher breaking strain - even so we change it every other year to avoid unnecessary degradation. I take your point about the length of the splice, but in practice I am not overly concerned about that as the lead section of halyard is well on the drum by the time we get to lifting the gaff, when the real weight comes on and that is all taken by 22mm rope with a breaking strain of around 6500 kilograms, more than ample. The other benefits of this modern stuff is that it does not stretch, does not absorb water and is much more stable. You could ask why we bother as even the 18mm is ample to take the whole weight, BUT we try to do as has been done previously, and continue with the old traditions until we are forced to change! P. S. Sorry that this has turned into a conversation between Vaughan and myself and of little general interest to anyone else!!!!!

The last sail was made around 20yrs ago by Jeckells of a synthetic canvas called black Clipper canvas and came from company near Barnstable called John Heathcoat & Co - they are still around but no longer produce the canvas. We keep our fingers crossed that the existing sail will continue for a bit longer but it is heavy and although it goes up and down a lot, it is still in excellent condition. Jeckells have it every winter and continue to renew bits as and when but by and large its doing well! If we have a difficulty, its with the rope work and in particular, the main halyard - that is around 75m and is of 2 differing weights - the shorter bit is 18mm and that is joined to a longer 22mm length. The shorter piece goes onto the barrel first and lifts the gaff jaws until the luff is tight and then the gaff starts to lift, around the join to the heavier rope, carrying the sail as well. Traditionally the joining slice is what known as a tapered long splice, where each end is "thinned" or tapered and then spliced together - thats a skill that we are finding problems with individuals able to do it. A proper splice is about 4 -6' long but thats hard to do! We could use all the same length the same diameter but want to keep some old ways alive!!

Hi PW and to Vaughan too!! That could well be Postwick Grove - but artists employed a huge amount of licence when it suited as you all know! The beach was however very real and is one of my first memories ever!! In those days I, and the family, used to spend many hours with Nobby Clarke of Bungalow Lane fame and we had a 16' old lifeboat to which my Dad built a little cabin just after the war - wood was in short supply then so I have no idea where he got the wood from!! He built it in the front garden of our house in Cecil Road Norwich and I remember the day when a little crane came and loaded into one of those BR three wheeler trucks (Scarab?) and it was launched at Jewsons by Foundry Bridge. How did he know these people??? Anyhow the point is that before we had our own boat, we rowed downstream one sunny Sat/Sun from Nobbys to that very beach for a picnic - probably only about 4 then but thereafter began my affair with boats.Still finding excuses for my "affair"!!!! Like Vaughans comments on the colour of wherry sails - I am not sure what to believe as there are so many "variations " on that theme! The truth will of course never be known but Vaughans view is plausible - possibly originally the colour was as the old Thames barges or earlier estuary boats, and of course the fishing vessels. Why "invent" a new substance when there was already a very durable one available? The darker black sails that seemed to come later, were probably from the coal tar - a well known by -product of the production of town gas. This started up in very early Victorian times and as the wherries took the coal up river, I suspect the old wherrymen just got the stuff for free out of the back door and decided to slap it on the sails - I suspect fish oil stunk a bit, but the coal tar would have been messy too but seeing as they stuck it on the boat, they also did the sails too! Sad in a way we have to "guess" so many things about what was so commonplace, but who on earth would have ever bothered to record what squit was painted on the sails and why????

Without seeing the boat, or looking at it or the mechanicals, I don't find myself in a position to make any pronouncement one way or another! You can make comments such as "you don't think it necessary" or what ever else but my guess is that their fitters/engineers are every bit as qualified and experienced as most, and if they are recommending it, then you will have to just take their word for it! I have to say having worked with them in the past with their outboards they are not exactly prone to recommending new engines unless absolutely necessary - indeed if anything they are apt to being the other way, often using them beyond their expected life!! Like it or not, they do these days use a lot more volunteers than in the past, and there is no question that volunteers work assets far harder than you would your own! Its a bit like hire boats really - hire boats have a far harder time of it than private boats even if you take out of the equation, the amount of time they are being used. Ask those in charge of the syndicate boats - maintenance is an ongoing issue I suspect

Although Aweigh does indeed give you the What3words location, its not the same as the App itself! Unless i have missed the link to the App itself which i could easily have done!!

Aweigh - https://aweigh.co.uk/#/ what three words - https://what3words.com/products/what3words-app/ Definitely both of the above - the best thing about the first one is the tides bit. Always use it - better than a table! And of course what3words for giving your position in need to the Coastguard and Broads Control. Because of the ease of use, this now seems to be of most use to the emergency services

BUT if the BA do not promote the Broads (and I am not saying they should ) just who will on a national or global basis? If they are so dependant on hire tolls, you can perhaps see the temptation! So back to the earlier point - whose job is it to advertise the Broads home here in Norfolk and away???

Hardly dare ask this question but quite how, and what, if any, evidence is there that a National Park tag has anything other than a positive effect?? Surely the tag line can only have a positive effect ? (Now I know that some will believe that it could have a negative effect but just wondered how this thread will develop???)

Do all hire boats wait for the tide - at least 50% just seem to turn the wick up irrespective!! Sorry Vaughan, I did not make myself quite clear on the luggage point. If indeed any person comes into France by air, and you confirm how many do, their luggage is limited by airline baggage restrictions. If you arrive by car ,as virtually all do, they seem to want to bring everything and two kitchen sinks, and this paraphanalia all has to be shifted if you don't have a car to hand. what I was trying to say was that just as peole like huge boats they cannot clearly use to their fullest potentail, they like to bring loads of tat they are never going to use just for the sake of it!!!

Two things - luggage and logistics!! If you fly to France for a holiday, say, you only have limited luggage. As has been said, just look and see what they bring today, for a long weekend. You would be astounded!! And clearly Vaughan, you have not checked whether its even possible by train!! Cost pp £6.40 single and one connecting train every 2 hrs, time taken 35 mins. And at both ends hirers would have to WALK!!!! Alters the equation a bit methinks - there are good reasons why its not practical on the Broads and why it has not been successful even when tried.

The trouble is that even in the Broadland area, there are just too many worthy charities and there are even more projects some people think are very worthy! Against that, is that all these do in reality, is spread the available pot, more thinly!! Believe me when I say that I understand the issues very well - but there is just not an easy answer! The costings given are an approximation at best but if the boat is used on a more intensive basis, i.e. equivalent to "hiring", then I reckon to absorb that, you may need to double them! There is a great deal of difference between using your own boat, and maintaining that, and it being used by other people on a regular basis, who don't own it! No disrespect to them in any way, but its like a holiday cottage, it is not treated by others, the same as if it belonged to you, and you alone! An old lady such as WR needs to be used "sympathetically" and like other older ladies, not overused - it is easy to overuse such an asset but you are torn between overusing her to provide revenue, but at the same time, not overusing it, to help preserve her!! Setting it up as a charity helps in getting funding but be mindful of the strings inevitably attached to most money "freely" donated or given under a scheme - is that the best way forward? It is often easy to accept with enthusiasm the efforts of volunteers etc, to restore something BUT that's not the real problem - ongoing maintenance is just as important and just as expensive and where most of such operations fall down beyond the initial flush of enthusiasm of restoration. Believe me when I say, I would wish to encourage the restoration and preservation of all aged Broadland craft, but the reason why there are so few "publicly" owned ones are the very many pitfalls and problems about securing the longevity of such operations!!

You can pretend to hide from Amazon, Ebay, internet shopping, and indeed internet banking for as long as you like, but these are popular services simply because people use them and want them! You really cannot stand in the way of progress forever, so you might as well use them - like dealing directly with real people in the past, there is no guarantee that you will not have issues and to be honest, whilst I use all mentioned regularly, I rarely have issues. As one would expect, there are too many scare stories about promulgated by the likes of the Daily Mail about everything going wrong for everyone and every transaction, but it a bit like the views expressed on Forums, the vast majority of people are quite happy and just get on with it! I do not think these days it would be possible to live as I do without these facilities and am grateful for them.

Please don't hit it?????

Probably about 2/3 years ago - and probably better for it.

There was talk of retirement homes sometime ago on the Windboats site but not heard of that lately. My guess, for what its worth, is there is less likelihood of that in that position- that site is probably the best used tourist site in the whole of Norfolk. Now if that was announced at Brooms, i would not be surprised - still expecting that one!!!!!

I might be mistaken but I believe the posts on the Lower Bure have been numbered as long as I can remember and thats a long long time. I also believe that there are other reasons why there is a "hump" in the Bure - and thats nothing new either but not entering into that discussion!!! The saltwater surges are still getting further upstream every year, despite arguments over the "hump" and everytime you get a big one, one, more fish die! The Broads are generally full of freshwater fish so they dislike saltwater for too long and surges will kill them. Not sure too many fisherman, or indeed many others either, want to see thousands of dead fish rotting in the rivers!! The recent floods on the Don were sad but dredging per se is rarely the answer - frequently it just moves the problem elsewhere! But going back to the bridge - its not the air draft especially that stops transit but almost all Broads cruisers these day are built to the maximum allowable beam and because the arch width is narrower than at Wroxham, it is the beam that causes the main obstacle. So try and pick a 10' beam rather than the more standard 12' - that will help but they are few and far between. Or hire a day boat as suggested

The answer to that is probably connected to what sort of season they had this year from the WRC. The good news is that it is still around at the moment, and the bad is probably , like many up on the Northern Broads, I think the summer of 2019 proved to be pretty indifferent for most yards. One good thing to come out of the takeover is that NBD has a good record of turning out new builds - although in the past Waveney has done several, Ferry certainly had the edge but now Len has more space at Wroxham to continue to invest in new boats - historically he has always invested in new boats and my guess he will still do so. Whilst I know that many continue to bemoan the cost of these new additions to hire, there is no question that they continue to let well and he probably recognises this!

I agree that comment about Paul and Barbara - and especially nice people too!! Len's repurchase shows his belief in the Broads going forward too. Having said that, I wouldn't hold your breath about mooring in their basin - my guess is has never been about not wanting to let private boats in, it is because it can get very busy and add into that cocktail, the traffic with the bigger trip boats, it can get pretty busy, especially as almost every day has become a changeover day.

I always suspected WRC was too far away for him to pop in on a daily basis - its still a little further than Ferry Marina, but not much!!

Well, well, well! Who'd have guessed that one then!!!

You will be pleased to know that society has finally given up the unequal struggle with apostrophes - the guy who ran "The Apostrophe Society " has decided to call it a day -( faxcheck correct ) because no one takes any notice of them and they are no longer taught about them in school, or most of them! So Jay you can stick them where you like with impunity or a care that you may be caught being just a little naughty as you will no longer be brought to book for littering your writing with them! Pesky things anyway!!!

I doubt it is the Inner Broad - that belongs to Fairhaven. However I am probably wrong!!