Friday Girl's September visit to the Northern Broads

[goodall_m1]

just felt that not all boats would have expected or beeen prepared for that amount of wind and wild water

I quite agree Roy,

There are times when the "if you can drive your car to our boatyard then you can handle one of our boats" just doesn't ensure that the hirer is aware of things like tides and waves.

At the end of my recent trip I got talking to a couple on the boat next door who were just about to start their first trip on the Broads from Acle, and found that they were planning set at about 18:00 with the intention of going down through Yarmouth without even thinking about tide times etc. (I had just had fun getting my big yellow bungalow parked up stern to as there was a good Bf7 blowing at Acle and an inshore forecast talking about Bf9)

Luckily they saw my point and decided to stay at Acle for the night. Perhaps the boatyard might have also picked it up, but in my case it was simply a result of me asking "Where are you planning to stop tonight?"

I took a 42' Bahama across Breydon in a Bf5 cross-wind a couple of years ago (crabbing at about 45 degrees!) and when I got to Reedham the harbour master said "You must have been one of the last to come through, we closed it to hire craft a bit later due to the conditions", so the BA are obviously aware of the problem.

(with about 6 months of sea time logged, that crossing was interesting but not particularly worrying, but a novice wouldn't have found it fun)

Later that afternoon I had to right the dinghy for another hire boat when they tied up behind us. They had flipped it on Breydon, righted it at Berney Arms, and then flipped it again on the Yare on the way up to Reedham...

Martin

[thirdmate]

Could it be that some of the 'caravans' used as hire craft give the impression that Breydon is the equivalant of crossing the Bay of Biscay ?

Anyone remember the last time a boat was sunk/capsized/swamped on this mighty sea due to rough weather ?

Andy

[Hockham Admiral]

Andy, Hi

Would the "caravans" you are referring to be the "bathtubs"? I know that to you and me Breydon is a piece of doddle in any weather.. try the Black Deep in a wind against tide situation and I guarantee it would put hirers off boating for life!

But I still remember my first boat which I built of marine ply. It was 18ft, centre-cockpit and slept FIVE! Powered by a Honda-5 4-stroke.

But no-one had told me to put ballast in it and the first time we went out on the Yare a large (to us) boat went past us. Its wake threw us about violently (or so it seemed then) and we were all terrified! When ballasted it wasn't so much of a problem.

The point I am trying to make (and not succeeding very well!) is that first time hirers can and will be frightened of Breydon even when it's really perfectly safe. So as a norm we slow off the plane 2-300 yards before we pass them.

[mbird]

The thing to remember about bathtubs and Breydon is that they ain't watertight. When crossing into the wind and waves, any large amount of spray will invariably find it's was through the gaps in sliding canopies and windscreens, making the whole thing a rather damp affair. Couple that with the fact that any water that gets into the for and aft wells drains straight into the bilge means bilge pumps have to work well.

The shape of the bathtub hull means that any waves aren't ridden over, but slammed into, which can be very unnerving for the inexperienced, and it can take an awful long time to get across.

Mind you, the best crossing I ever had over Breydon in our bathtub was last year on a very windy Bank holiday. Luckily the wind and waves were behind us, and we managed 8mph!

[Antares_9]

Mind you, the best crossing I ever had over Breydon in our bathtub was last year on a very windy Bank holiday. Luckily the wind and waves were behind us, and we managed 8mph!

OOh look mummy, a surfing bathtub.

[mbird]

OOh look mummy, a surfing bathtub.

:

You don't know how right your are David, and to cap it all, whilst we were crossing the Beach Boys came on the radio with "Surfin' USA", I kid you not!

[andyfish]

OOh look mummy, a surfing bathtub.

Bet it looked like a slow torpedo!

Andy

[Hockham Admiral]

Rod, Hi

Rod said:

John as you know I gave you a about your passage in the Black Deep as any vessel with less than 6m draft should not be there. But as I later qualified it there is a designated crossing area for small craft between Black Deep #5 and into the Foulgers Gat at BD#6. For those that know the area just north of the Fishermans Gat which starts at BD#8 SE bound.

Rod, I bow to your superior knowledge but cannot find any Notice to Mariners which prohibits small craft navigating the Black Deep. Here's the only NOTOM I can find relevant to it:

http://www.pla.co.uk/notice2mariners/in ... recreation

Not that we have any thoughts of going along it in the future! What about Antares9, David?

[Antares_9]

I’ve seen nothing specific John, I would always cross any channel at right angles in accordance with good practise anyway but other than that the only places I stay completely out of are specific exclusion zones. Apart from that if I keep out of the deep bits then big stuff has hit the bottom before it hits me.

[Hockham Admiral]

I've also seen nothing specific but Rod says that the Admiralty Charts prohibit any vessel less than 6m draft from entering the Black Deep except to cross at Foulgers Gat. My own (Imray) don't have this exclusion on them.

I also keep well outside the channel marks! I suppose I could argue that as I'm outside the channel it's OK. (But I won't as I am not, and never have been, a barrack-room lawyer!). Also Rod quite sobered me up with his story of taking a large ship down the Deep at 20-25 kts... I wouldn't want to be anywhere near there when he did!

[Antares_9]

I'll check my charts, electronic and paper this weekend but if Rod says it's so then you can be sure it's so.

[Hockham Admiral]

23. NAVIGATING, WAITING AND ANCHORING

(1) No vessel shall navigate in a Fairway of the Thames or anchor in a Designated

Anchorage in the Thames unless such Fairway or Designated Anchorage (as

the case may be) is the Fairway or Designated Anchorage most suitable for a

vessel of that draught and size. In particular, vessels with an operating

draught of less than 6.0 metres shall not be navigated along the Black Deep,

except with the express permission of the Harbourmaster.

Rod, that says it all! But is a boat of our size defined as a "vessel"? Now I'm splitting hairs and bow to your knowledge... You won't have a problem with Friday Girl in the Black Deep channel again!

[Antares_9]

Strangely enough John there have been some legal precedents lately because of PWC behaviour and MIAB involvement. We are indeed “vessels†but PWCs are not. The classification of PWCs is currently under review and is being contested.

[Antares_9]

A salutary tale Rod, what it boils down to really is you guys are easy to see, we are not easy to see either with MKI eyeball or electronic means so we need to stay out of your way. Yotties excepted of course, their job is to get under everybody’s feet even each others.

[Hockham Admiral]

quote="Antares_9"]A salutary tale Rod, what it boils down to really is you guys are easy to see, we are not easy to see either with MKI eyeball or electronic means so we need to stay out of your way. Yotties excepted of course, their job is to get under everybody’s feet even each others.

[Hockham Admiral]

Rod, Hi from Gt Hockham,

Just off to the pub for a few but had to reply to your always excellent post.

I remain totally in awe of your vast experience of all things floating!

If I've learned anything at all in my 17000+ hours aloft it's that you always expect bloody amateurs to attempt to do you in! Unlike in ships/boats in an aeroplane even a microlight can kill a Jumbo! So apologies if I've conveyed anything but respect to you.

Look forward to our next session down some pub or other!

[pks1702]

In a nutshell 'keep from under the feet of big stuff' seems to cover it

[Hockham Admiral]

In whatever, Perry!!!

[senator]

Rod,

The knowledge of those with more real expierience and there are a number on here, as opposed to those that never venture beyond the yacht club walls, is always stored away in the old grey matter for future use but especially yours.

The expieirence of a professional such as yourself, when shared with those of us just starting to learn the ropes, brings a huge amount of realisation as to why the rules are there.

Having said that I seriously wonder as to the wisdom that allows anyone who wants to play in the path of a tanker to walk free in society, even if they do believe that rule 376 sub section B means they are within their rights. All you can hope is that they do not involve others in their pursuit of a Darwin award.

In my very limited boating life I have crossed only One shipping channel but that involved me reading and re reading, plotting and checking the plot many times, I can only hope that by continuing to apply the same approch I may keep myself and crew alive long enough to one day call myself a seasoned salty.

Ian

[Antares_9]

Not necessarily Rod, a lot of people read this forum and if just one learns something safety related they will hopefully talk about it and others will learn too. I think any safety related posts are worth repeating and reinforcing. There is of course the argument that some stories may put a few people off taking a boating holiday but if the posts are well tempered and offer solutions as well as highlighting the dangers I believe that is a risk worth taking. Your posts are not in vain.