Jump to content
  • Announcements

    Welcome! New around here? Take a look at the New Members' Guide for some pointers.

    You can Sign up or log in with your Facebook account and you can soon be chatting away with friends old and new..

    Check out our Handy Information section if you're after something quickly!

  • calender payment

    Calendar Paymene

    Delivery Options
    Your NBN Forum Username:

  • If you would like to support the forum, please consider visiting the forum shop, where you can purchase such items as NBN Burgees, Window Stickers, or even a custom Limited Edition Wooden Throttle Control Knob

    Forum Shop

BryanW

Save Our Broads (bins)

Recommended Posts

Here is an idea...

Where I work we have commercial waste - put into pre-paid bin bags (purple for waste and orange for recycling).  Of course not everyone abides by the rules, so every day your see the odd plain black bin bag in the mix but in the main it works and the buying of the bags from the waste contractor thus pays for the service (likely with a top up/grant from local council)

I think they should put back the bins on the Broads, but all hire boats come with color bin bags - added into the cost of hire, which over a weeks holiday might be an extra £5.00 say spread out over the fleet of boats and season. 

So, the boatyard buys in bulk the stock of bags - then divides this cost over the the seasons hires so each person hiring is 'taxed' a small amount for the waste they produce.

Maybe this is controversial asking for people to pay for waste collection as an added charge to their holiday cost, but how else does the collection of this waste the hirer produces otherwise get paid for? 

Local residents may argue that their council tax is subbing that of the additional costs of waste collection that the influx of visitors to the area brings - by having the cost of the collection of waste paid for through the hire companies purchase of the bags (then passed to the customers) it would do a lot to raise the needed money to run the service with the local council likely having to add far less 'into the pot' to cover those who abuse the system not using pre-paid bags.

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

Here is an idea...

Where I work we have commercial waste - put into pre-paid bin bags (purple for waste and orange for recycling).  Of course not everyone abides by the rules, so every day your see the odd plain black bin bag in the mix but in the main it works and the buying of the bags from the waste contractor thus pays for the service (likely with a top up/grant from local council)

I think they should put back the bins on the Broads, but all hire boats come with color bin bags - added into the cost of hire, which over a weeks holiday might be an extra £5.00 say spread out over the fleet of boats and season. 

So, the boatyard buys in bulk the stock of bags - then divides this cost over the the seasons hires so each person hiring is 'taxed' a small amount for the waste they produce.

Maybe this is controversial asking for people to pay for waste collection as an added charge to their holiday cost, but how else does the collection of this waste the hirer produces otherwise get paid for? 

Local residents may argue that their council tax is subbing that of the additional costs of waste collection that the influx of visitors to the area brings - by having the cost of the collection of waste paid for through the hire companies purchase of the bags (then passed to the customers) it would do a lot to raise the needed money to run the service with the local council likely having to add far less 'into the pot' to cover those who abuse the system not using pre-paid bags.

 

It is a very sensible and simple solution Robin.

BUT: £5 on a weeks hire! It will kill the holiday trade stone dead! 4000 souls will be out of a job and the region will be £10 Billion the poorer.

Or so we will be led to believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ChrisB said:

It is a very sensible and simple solution Robin.

BUT: £5 on a weeks hire! It will kill the holiday trade stone dead! 4000 souls will be out of a job and the region will be £10 Billion the poorer.

Or so we will be led to believe.

This is pure guess work - I doubt it would be that much, but let us presume it was a fiver a week, I think if it was explained correctly, it would be a bitter pill yes but one a holiday maker could swallow.

It would not effect private boaters - and here comes another generalisation - that the majority come for weekends and bank holidays and not so much for a weeks holiday (or longer). It therefore follows that their waste could be kept  to be disposed of at their home Marina upon return.  If that was not possible then I'd not think it too terrible to buy some waste sacks, at oh I don't know 10p each, to put the waste in and use the disposal facilities around the Broads.

It all boils down to costs and like it or not, local authorities are not run as they used to be, have less money to play with and frankly are not as efficient because so many of their services are contracted out (like waste collection). 

The companies supplying these services on behalf of the local authorities need to make a profit, and so right down the line there is always someone asking for money right along  to the site that processes the waste at the end of the day.

So how does one pay for it?  Residents of Norfolk pay their taxes for their local services but the county happens to have this large river system with many thousands of people who holiday on boats (and riverside holiday homes) within it. This makes it a bit tricky to compare to 'an average county' without this added tourist draw and increased waste these people visiting bring.

If some, or part of the cost of not just the actual waste collection, but provision of waste bins was to funded through the buying of waste sacks provided by and to fund the Contractor who is providing the service by those who holiday and contribute to the waste, then in my mind it is about as fair a system as I can think up to sort the root of the issue: funding.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was a joke! And frankly the hire companies should be paying to dispose of commercial waste generated by their clientelle. In the same way a hotel, a caravan site, a guest house, a restaurant and lord knows what else in the holiday business. They got their tolls reduced use that money.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One little problem - how do you stop people using normal black bin bags at the waste bins? 

If they buy 5 at the start of the holiday and mid way through run out they may start to use normal bin bags (or they may not buy any at all). Even if the hire yards gave them away free at some point the normal black bin bag would get in? 

I can see how this works for business waste when you dump your bags outside your shop and the contractor comes and picks their bags up. Will the black bags get left to rot?

At the end of the day stick a fiver on everyone's hire charge for a week - no one will notice, ask them to pay 10p a bag..........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could not stop this - just as in my area many many people use black bins and do not pay for their commercial waste sacks - every now and then you get 'litter wardens' come rummaging through the black bin bags, and if find anything identifiable to a premises will then issue a penalty notice.

The system does to a large degree rely upon people 'towing the line' and using the correct waste sacks - but, because most do it works with the local authorities having to intervene and 'top up' the kitty with their money.

I actually think it would be workable - you take over the boat and you can use your own black bin bags. In my experience these 'commercial waste sacks' are very large and will hold two standard black bin bags.  Thus you just need to put your bags into the coloured commercial waste sack.

Each boat might have five sacks, which would hold 10 regular black bin bags - this should be enough to last a week. With instruction on take over and a sticker on the bin on board reminding the hirer to use the colour commercial sack I can't see many not following along with it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Robin at Neatishead in March (and they have large waste and recycling bins) a few idiots had put normal waste in the recyling - it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the box and I am afraid there are probably a lot of those bad apples around:bow 

I suspect it would be no different with the sacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark, I agree.  But it is like that in any road in any part of the Country where residents will not be bothered to sort through their waste and be careful what goes in what bin - I know in my area many many recycling bins have standard rubbish put in them.

Maybe in some areas, local residents would be reminded or visited to 'educate them' on what to put in what bin, in my borough none such is done and they are collected regardless. Of course once it gets to the processing plant is where the wroth is - good dry recyclables, properly sorted is valued higher than mixed recycling and waste.

I just think the idea with commercial waste sacks is a way for waste to be put in something that by its existence has been paid for and thus helps pay for the collection of the waste and provision of the bins. What opains me the most is the savings being made by removing the bins is in the tens of thousands a year, sure it is money but it is small fry really - it is not as if the local authority has removed the bins and has an extra £100,000 to spend elsewhere which makes it all the more pointless they have gone down the path of removing the bins. 

PS. At some locations such as Horning and Wroxham, two workmen, digger and then ashfelt has all had to be used and paid for to remove the structure and 'make good' after its gone. More money!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, kfurbank said:

Griff, Only boat waste from hire boats is classified as commercial. Boat waste from private boats is still domestic waste. The real issue here is that the local councils should still be providing facilities for the disposal of that domestic waste. How they control commercial waste being dumped in those facilities is down to them, but it shouldn't be controlled by removing the facilities full stop.

Fairly recently, the BA confirmed that waste from private boats is also to be classified as commercial waste. I know it's nonsense but that's what they have said. I will track down the relevant information and post it later. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The BA have no statutory remit for disposing of waste and therefore would not classify the waste. The county council has incorrectly interpreted that private boat waste should be treated as commercial waste. This is totally wrong and against the controlled waste regulations 2012 which state that "waste produced by “A vehicle or vessel used wholly for the purposes of living accommodation” as “Household Waste”.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hoveton, the bins near Jeckells have been removed since last week, the ones near the BA Information Office are apparently set to remain in place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kfurbank said:

The BA have no statutory remit for disposing of waste and therefore would not classify the waste. The county council has incorrectly interpreted that private boat waste should be treated as commercial waste. This is totally wrong and against the controlled waste regulations 2012 which state that "waste produced by “A vehicle or vessel used wholly for the purposes of living accommodation” as “Household Waste”.

 

Absolutely right. I was merely quoting what the BA have said following NCC direction. But it seems there is nowt anyone can about it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And certain individuals who are fellow residents of North Norfolk are not beyond dropping the odd bin of grass cuttings in! Seen it at Stalham Staithe and Barton Turf. Hirers don't cut grass on holiday neither do private owners if sailing.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, vanessan said:

Absolutely right. I was merely quoting what the BA have said following NCC direction. But it seems there is nowt anyone can about it!

Not entirely. I asked JP about free short stay moorings to drop off rubbish at the two yacht stations and was told that was acceptable. I don't normally moor at the yacht stations, but at least that is two more places I can dispose of rubbish. I only have a small bin on the boat, so tend to dispose of rubbish on a daily basis anyway. The local councils still have to provide street bins. Don't be surprised to see a small bag of Domestic rubbish being deposited in them from time to time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The situation with regards to the bins on the Broads is totally unacceptable, it is estimated that the cost for supplying services at all of the previous locations is around the £80,000 mark which is peanuts compared to the costs involved dealing with fly tipping. We are talking about providing services in a tourist area for heavens sake, the authorities need to get their act together before it all goes pear shaped.

Regards

Alan   

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kfurbank said:

Not entirely. I asked JP about free short stay moorings to drop off rubbish at the two yacht stations and was told that was acceptable. I don't normally moor at the yacht stations, but at least that is two more places I can dispose of rubbish. I only have a small bin on the boat, so tend to dispose of rubbish on a daily basis anyway. The local councils still have to provide street bins. Don't be surprised to see a small bag of Domestic rubbish being deposited in them from time to time.

I rather think JP dug a bit of a hole for himself there. Whilst being helpful with short-term moorings, he agreed to commercial (BA and NCC terminology, not mine) waste being put in YS bins. Confusing or what?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as they are paying to dispose of it correctly why does it really matter. I say well done and thank you to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not so sure Vanessan, I suspect that the GY yacht station's rubbish may already be classified as commercial and that therefore the commercial rate is already applied.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I see what you mean. Brain not engaged when typing I think! The fact does remain though, in most places private boat waste is classed as commercial so we private boaters have far fewer depositories available to us now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've been oop North a week or more now and have found rubbish bins at Wroxham, Horning, Ranworth, Salhouse, Sutton Staithe and here at Womach Staithe. This has been more than adequate to keep Friday Girl smelling sweetly!    :grin:

Going to the Acle Bridge today for a meal this evening; then it's an early start for the slack water at GHYS tomorrow morning.  Next stop OBYS.   :wave

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi John,

It is good to hear that you have found a few bins on your travels, are the ones you have encountered the trade bin size or just the standard household sized bin?

Regards

Alan 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been on the Southern Rivers last week Waste Disposal Bins at Langley Stathie plus Norwich and Beccles Yacht Stations and Waveney River Centre 

Ray

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Hi John,

It is good to hear that you have found a few bins on your travels, are the ones you have encountered the trade bin size or just the standard household sized bin?

Regards

Alan 

All large trade bins, Alan.

At Ranworth they've even installed a solar-powered waste compressing machine!   :clap  :clap  :clap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are up in a bit for a week.. What are people doing for disposing of waste?

We was up last weekend and after a BBQ had a full blacksack.. we was at gay's staithe and there are no bins there now (We noticed a couple of people walking up the lane with rubbish bags and coming back empty handed.. I hope they wasn't flytipping somewhere :huh: ).. thankfully we managed to keep it aboard and dispose in the marina .. but if we are there for a full week what are we meant to do.. I can't return to the marina every few days?? Can I hand to a ranger?? 

Not sure if I mentioned before but here's a slightly unhelpful reply from North Norfolk council (From the link mentioned, http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/facilities/waste-facilities most of these are hire boats only and I think it's a bit of a take for non hire boaters to use these):

 

Dear Mr Hathaway

 

Thank you for your email.  North Norfolk District Council currently provides 16 bin compound areas across the North Norfolk Broads.  However, due to changes in the legislation affecting the classification of this waste and an associated increase in disposing of the waste collected from these facilities, combined with the scale of misuse which goes on at the facilities in terms of deposit of unauthorised waste and the poor physical condition of many of the structures, we have taken the decision to remove 13 of the 16 facilities.  We plan to implement this change by the end of March 2016, removing the bins and associated structures, unless agreements can be reached with relevant landowners and/or other public bodies to take over the running of the facilities.  

 

Since the change in legislation in 2012, Council officers have worked with the Broads Authority, the other Councils in the Norfolk Waste Partnership (NWP) and representatives from the Broads Hire Boat Federation to develop and implement a Norfolk-wide approach to the provision of waste facilities for users of the Broads.

 

Within the NWP, a position was agreed to ensure that a consistent approach could be taken across all of the Councils currently providing Broads boat waste collections.  The NWP agreed that Councils should not pick up the entire cost of waste collection and disposal and that other public and private landowners, including The Broads Authority, The Environment Agency, The National Trust and others, should be expected to make arrangements for provision of services on their land.

 

Similarly, Council waste facilities should not be provided at commercial moorings, unless the landowner enters into a commercial contract covering the cost of both emptying and disposing of the waste.  The providers of these moorings often make financial gain from both mooring fees and commercial services, such as food and drink sales and the existing service is an effective subsidy to their businesses.

 

This approach has been accepted by all Councils and already implemented in some areas.  Great Yarmouth Borough Council removed all of their waste facilities in 2014 and as of April 2015, Broadland District Council reduced their waste disposal provision to just two sites.  Colleagues at the two Councils have indicated that the impact of this change has been minimal and in a report to the Broads Authority Navigation Committee in December 2015, it was stated that Broads Authority rangers had reported that during 2015 there were no significant complaints or issues of fly tipping at any of the sites.


We are currently contacting the local town and parish councils and the organisations and landowners where facilities are currently provided to see if they are able and willing to take over the services.  A full list and map of the remaining waste disposal points across the broads, is available on the Broads Authority website at http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/facilities/waste-facilities.  In addition, a number of premises offer waste disposal facilities as part of their mooring fees, however, we are not aware of a comprehensive list of these areas. 

 

Kind regards
Scott Martin
Environmental Services Manager
+441263 516341

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of flagging down a Ranger and say "hey bud can you take this" as you hand over a black bin liner.  In all seriousness it is becoming a tricky business even more so when you are not on a hire boat and can't just pop into other boatyards to moor and use their bins.

The problem is it would be very hard to be a decent person if, you arrived at Potter Heigham and found their single wheelie bin near the pilots office full.  Lets face it, it will be full. So do you leave your rubbish next to it ignoring the sign but following what others have done? Or, walk over the bridge, through the car park of Herbert Woods and find one of their bins to put your rubbish in which is not very politically correct since you are not from a hire boat, let alone on of Herbert Woods.

So it is a real and serious point that those in charge seem to be very much ignoring.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • NBN Mobile App

    Want to use NBN when you're out and about?

    Get our mobile app for Android and iOS!

    Get it on Google Play

×

Important Information

For details of our Guidelines, please take a look at the Terms of Use here.