Oh dear .......

[mbird]

Something has happened I never thought possible .....

I've developed an interest in the thought of venturing into the briney

The problem is that along with another forumite (who I daresay will make himself known if he wants to) I took the RYA ICC qualification last weekend and passed. I learned an awful lot, and upon studying chartwork, course plotting and tidal vectors, I found myself becoming fascinated with the prosepct of enjoying the broads, but also being able to pop down the coast should the fancy take me, a few times a year.

As you will understand, my Alpha 32 with it's 1.5 BMC is hardly the right craft for this, so a tentative search of brokerages has ensued, with very disappointing results. SWMBO is very sceptical of the whole idea, so we looked at a few boats in the local area just to get an idea of the living accomodation layouts etc, and it has to be said that most of what we've seen in the sub £40k price brackets is very claustrophobic and most of it tatty to say the least.

We would need something that would still be capable of getting under Ludham Bridge (say 9' air draught) with decent sleeping accomodation for 4 (two of which are rapidly growing boys - the eldest is taller than my wife).

Our Alpha fits our needs on the river perfectly, being reasonable spacious and comfortable, but some of these sea going types do seem to be form over function. What sort of designs would you peeps think I should be looking at?

[goodall_m1]

I've developed an interest in the thought of venturing into the briney

I took the RYA ICC qualification last weekend and passed.

Congratulations Mark!

Time to book your VHF course now....

[pks1702]

mbird wrote:

I learned an awful lot, and upon studying chartwork, course plotting and tidal vectors, I found myself becoming fascinated with the prosepct of enjoying the broads, but also being able to pop down the coast should the fancy take me, a few times a year.

That's how it starts Mark soon be doing your passage plan to Niewpoort for a future NBN meet.

Simon should have his finger pretty well on the pulse of what might be available at the sort of price you are looking at having searched extensively for a 'dual' purpose craft himself recently. For what its worth I would be looking for Semi Displacement and Single Diesel which would mean the craft would be equally happy tootling on the Broads as a trip to sea.

[Loops]

Congratulations Mark

It seems that you had fun

[mbird]

Time to book your VHF course now....

I've convinced SWMBO that it is essential i get a hand help VHF if we want to take out canoes up to the creeks around Morston and Brancaster, so it will be on the cards!

It seems that you had fun

We certainly did, but more time with those twin 7.4L engines would have been even more fun . I wouldn't want the fuel bill though

[Loops]

[Boaters]

Well done Mark and the "Nameless one " who said he was having to watch the "fluid intake " prior to the exam ,but I bet you both made up for it afterwards.

[Happy Jax 3]

The problem is that along with another forumite (who I daresay will make himself known if he wants to) I took the RYA ICC qualification last weekend and passed.

Well that would be me then.

Another qualification under my belt, another licence to put in my wallet. I think most of you know our intentions regarding going to sea in a couple of years. Just need to find the right boat for the job. As with Mark, we have been trawling the brokers again to see what is about. A boat to go under Ludham Bridge would be nice, but not essential, after travelling the length of the Ant almost every weekend during boating season for the past 5 years a break could be on the cards.

Last weekend was certainly had fun, stirring up Wroxham Broad in a 680hp Bayliner doing our Man Overboard drills, have you dried out yet Mark and our high speed manoeuvres at 5mph. (honest Andy).

We even passed our inland waterways CEVNI assessment so we can now safely navigate the Norfolk Broads with a licence in our pockets.

[pks1702]

The CEVNI will also 'legally' allow you on the French Inland waterways provided you have all the other bits of paper you need with it.

With regard to fixed bridges Kiki is 9 6" with everything folded and we went into her purchase knowing this. Above Wroxham, Potter & Ludham were off limits but it was a trade off well worthwhile when looking for a 'compromise' craft.

I fear another couple of 'Totally unsuitable for the Broads' boats making an appearance in the not too distant future

[Jupes]

Something has happened I never thought possible .....

I've developed an interest in the thought of venturing into the briney

The problem is that along with another forumite (who I daresay will make himself known if he wants to) I took the RYA ICC qualification last weekend and passed. I learned an awful lot, and upon studying chartwork, course plotting and tidal vectors, I found myself becoming fascinated with the prosepct of enjoying the broads, but also being able to pop down the coast should the fancy take me, a few times a year.

Hmm, I thought the 'nameless' one might be Col

At this rate guys, we will be having a meet in Southwold next year

[Guest]

Hi Mark,

I think you're on a bum steer mate, I really do - sorry!

I know what you like about Tranquil Breeze and frankly you won't get close to providing the accommodation she can with the budget you've got. She is all about the maximum possible accommodation with as small a foot print but seagoers have a whole host of other things they need to take account of. Something has got to give. There is going to have to be a big compromise somewhere - either on the accommodation or on the size of the loan needed buy yourself a seagoer with the same setup. The closest thing to what you are after that you might get for that money and readily available is something like a Princess 33 and even then you're still struggling on the accommodation front. By far the most common seagoing boats under £40k are the smaller and medium sports cruisers and they will not provide what you are looking for. Other designs are few and far between, bigger designs are more expensive. I am sure David can provide examples of other designs which would offer much the same or better than a P-33 but actually finding one on sale is not always quite so easy.

[C.Ricko]

How about these?

Fairey Swordsman 33.

Moonraker (sedan)

Broom Ocean 37.

just my taste of course

[Boaters]

At this rate we could add "North Sea .Net " to our list of forums ? Any one want a cabin boy ?

[Guest]

How about these?

Fairey Swordsman 33.

Moonraker (sedan)

Broom Ocean 37.

just my taste of course

Proves my point Clive - only found one Moonraker under £40k (not a sedan) and, knowing what Mark has in Tranquil Breeze it won't come close on the accommodation front. Ocean 37's are a plenty but all well beyond £40k. Found a Fairey Swordsman under budget but baulked at the pictures - looks like it was built in the (early) 70's and is largely still there.

Mark, do you have one or two sleeping cabins on TB? Or do you and Sharon use the saloon? I may be thinking of Sally B and she's a bit stretched compared to yours though I am not sure how much difference 3ft will make in terms of fitting in an extra cabin.

[Jupes]

Mark, don't be put off by advertised prices.... there are bargains to be had. You just need to be cheeky. There are people out there with the credit crunch who need to get rid...........

Try Essex Boatyards, being a home of bankers . We picked up a very good deal with Jupes from them.

Col, will advise here also from his recent experience.

[mbird]

Hi Mark,

I think you're on a bum steer mate, I really do - sorry!

Cor, thanks for the encouragement Simon!

The problem is always going to be available space, especially on a sports cruiser. These are designed to have the living accomodation outside in the cockpit which is fine during the warmer months, but I still maintain it would be pretty miserable on a wet winters day under draughty canvas for the boys. Couple that with our requirement to still pass under Ludham (so about 9' max air draft) I realise the options are vastly reduced. As we would still spend 85% of our time on the rivers, I'm not willing to sacrifice the whole of the Ant, but obviously accept the upper Bure and Ant would be no longer accessible. I know the answer to that would be to move down south, but although I do like to visit the south a couple of times a year, the southern rivers just don't do it for me, with miles and miles of wide rivers and reed beds.

I have seen a couple of Storboro's but as I have no experience with anything other than river craft, a lot of digging is necessary I feel! (See http://www.jonesboatyard.co.uk/boatsales/boatDetails/178_Storebro_Royal_31_Baltic_For_Sale.aspx for example)

[Antares_9]

I fear Simon is not far off the mark Mark, The design requirements of say 35’ of seagoing versus 35’ of bathtub are diametrically opposed and frankly I doubt you would come close to the accommodation you have in anything much less than a 38’ trawler yacht. There is a clue in the name sports cruiser and in the size we are talking about you will find next to nothing unless you are happy to have half the accommodation under canvass. A hard top cruiser would be the best route to explore in my opinion but even then you will have to compromise. I make no suggestion as to maker and think it better to look at your requirements rather than focus on one make and miss something from a maker you had not considered.

For what it’s worth here are a few examples of what I think is important in a seagoing vessel in no particular order of importance but I’m afraid accommodation comes a long way down the list for me so it may be of no help.

Semi displacement or deep “v†hull configuration.

Shaft drive with protected prop

Wide easily negotiated side decks and foredeck with proper height guard rails.

Reliable well maintained single engine with easily access to all the “repairable at sea†parts , or if it must be twins then the same goes for access though that is far more difficult to achieve with two lumps.

Swim platform with easy access to the cockpit.

Cruising speed of 16 – 18kts, there’s not much point in having more as most east coast passage speeds are dictated by sea conditions on a boat of this size anyway, also it saves diesel giving better range and more beer vouchers left in your wallet.

Your requirements will no doubt differ from those but making a similar list will help you in your search I’m sure.

[Guest]

I wasn't trying to be negative Mark, I was trying to be honest! Nothing would delight me more than another forumite hitting the salt particularly one who is not just a fellow member but a friend. It's just that you recently spent quite a reasonable amount of effort telling me how much you like what you get from TB and how, whilst the idea of salt is interesting you are not prepared to sacrifice the other possibilities that TB brings to the table. Whilst your interest in the salt may have increased since before the course (got to sign myself up for one of those) I very much doubt you've stopped caring about the other points you made and your original post to this thread underlines that.

I have been looking at broker's sites for over 3 years now, multiple times a week, and I believe I have a feel for what is out there and in what quantity. In my experience the market for seagoing boats in that price range is dominated by British boat builders like Fairline, Sealine, Princess and Sunseeker and almost all of what they built is of the sports cruiser design. There are some older Fairline and Princess models which are still quite plentiful which pre-date the sports cruiser obsession and you may find them more to your liking in accommodation terms but I fear they will still fall some way short on the accommodation front. There are other options out there too but in far smaller numbers and you can only buy what is being sold.

I still think a good starting point would be a Princess 33. They are big, solid and plentiful. They are also the last generation of cruisers before Princess switched over to sports cruisers. Find one you like online, go and see it and decide whether or not there is any mileage there. If nothing else you can use it as a benchmark when viewing other boats. Sometimes less common designs come up and you might find a nice surprise.

It goes without saying that you should listen to David.

Semi displacement or deep “v†hull configuration.

Shaft drive with protected prop

Wide easily negotiated side decks and foredeck with proper height guard rails.

Reliable well maintained single engine with easily access to all the “repairable at sea†parts , or if it must be twins then the same goes for access though that is far more difficult to achieve with two lumps.

Swim platform with easy access to the cockpit.

Cruising speed of 16 – 18kts, there’s not much point in having more as most east coast passage speeds are dictated by sea conditions on a boat of this size anyway, also it saves diesel giving better range and more beer vouchers left in your wallet.

I have only two comments on this. One, I think you'll be damned lucky to get a single diesel. With that budget you'll really be looking at designs from the late 70's or early 80's. Fuel was cheaper and engines, particularly diesels, couldn't produce even close to the power they can nowadays and this would obviously have been factored into the designs being created. Nowadays where there is much more focus on economy, much more power from the available engines and probably much greater durability as well single engine designs are coming into their own. Even Brooms are making more and more single engine boats but that wasn't happening much in the era you'll be looking at.

Shaft drive is another nice thing to have but not common in many of the designs you'll probably see. The reason for this is that outdrives do have some advantages - firstly you get more bang for your buck in terms of horsepower and secondly it means the engines are mounted hard up against the transom meaning it has less impact in accommodation. The downsides are that they are more fragile and require more maintenance. They can also be quite a drawback on the river.

Ludham Bridge is going to be another sticking point. You'll need to think long and hard about that.

[Guest]

Interior pics aren't great but it seems to tick over boxes - except Ludham Bridge.

http://www.boatshop24.com/web/en/suchen ... alcount=26

The older Mk1 version didn't have a flybridge so Ludham would be a real possibility with this.

http://www.boatshop24.com/web/en/suchen ... alcount=26

[Guest]

bargain!!!

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F215109

Jonny

[Antares_9]

bargain!!!

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F215109

Jonny

Interesting description " Port side is the internal toilet and shower compartment," As opposed to an outside lavatory I guess, don't see many of them except perhaps on Hunters.

[mbird]

Thanks for the input guys

When it comes to accomodation, Simon, I think you might be thinking I'd expect the same as TB, which I don't (I am a realist), we won't be looking for 6 berths in three cabins and two head/shower compartments along with a 10' long galley . What I was trying to get my head around is whether there is an alternative to the ubiquitous "sports cruiser" as I'm afraid they simply don't do it for me. They look very good, but small confined spaces down below with tiny windows doesn't really suit a family containing people as big as me and my eldest boy (Sharon and Harry, however, do fit in cupboards quite nicely ).

This brings me to the Princesses, which we have yet to see an example of in the 32 or 33 ft design. There is a 37' version at NYA in Horning but that is huge requiring a step ladder just to get onto the deck! Another possibility which would seem a bit more what we are looking for is the Storebro Baltic 31, which I put the link up to earlier. There are 3 of I have found so far, of about 1978 vintage (the same as TB) and seem to have accomodation a bit more akin to what we are looking for. It's going to mean a trip to Cambridgeshire to see if they fit the bill, but at about 8'6" they also seem to be okay height wise too. The only bit that worries me is the fuel consumption with twin 6 cylinder diesel engines to feed......

Gosh, it's all so darn complicated!

[Antares_9]

I recall that another forumite of this parish has been looking a Storebos Mark, he rejected them all as bags of **** so it may be worth awaiting his input on where they were as it might save you a journey.

I had not mentioned until now but if accommodation is high on the list then perhaps an aft cabin type may offer something.

[mbird]

Thanks David. I thought the name rang a bell for some reason ..... I'll have a search for the thread.

Meanwhile, I do like the look of those Princessed Simon found. I'm still not sure I can convinve SWMBO that we don't need to get under Ludham after all, as I love the look of that flybridge one

I'm gonna get in soooo much trouble

[Guest]

When it comes to accomodation, Simon, I think you might be thinking I'd expect the same as TB, which I don't (I am a realist), we won't be looking for 6 berths in three cabins and two head/shower compartments along with a 10' long galley . What I was trying to get my head around is whether there is an alternative to the ubiquitous "sports cruiser" as I'm afraid they simply don't do it for me.

Well I've outlined the situation with sports cruisers above. As far as I can tell by about 1985 they'd replaced pretty much all other sub-35ft designs coming out of the biggest British builders. Your only real option is to spread the net wider and go an older less sporty design.

This brings me to the Princesses, which we have yet to see an example of in the 32 or 33 ft design.

Don't bother with the 32 Mark, that's a very old design and won't deliver on the accommodation front. The 33 is the one to look at (did you check the pics on my link)? A Fairline 32 Sedan is another possibility but much less available. The trouble with shopping for older boats (25-30 years plus) is that often the ones on the market are the ones that have sat around unloved for a while. Generally the ones that are loved and used don't get sold, or if they do they are only on the market for the blink of an eye and then someone snaps them up. Bit of a case of being in the right place at the right time and that's not really something you can legislate for.