Running Engines Shock Warning Following Tragedy.

[JennyMorgan]

Why the dependence on electricity? For example oil lamps have a charm that as yet has not been replicated. Tinned food doesn't need a fridge and so the list could go on.

[ChrisB]

Tinned bully is better chilled carving is easier. Waitrose tinned potatoes, Smedleys peas and mushy ones and some of those envelopes of meat dishes and rice  are fine for two or three days. Totally agree Peter.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

I have`nt read ALL this thread, as i`m off to watch BSB in a short while, and somebody else might have asked the question already.  We have a CO alarm on Lightning, which is tested most weeks, maybe we should have a syndicate recommendation it`s check EVERY week?. My question is though, is carbon monoxide heavier than air, as gas for cookers etc is, and in the event of a leak, will build up from the bilges up, which can easily lead to an explosion. Our CO alarmn is fitted next to the upper helm steps in front of the engine house, and also about six feet fwd of the cooker. However, although Lightning (exactly the same layout as Thunder) has most of her accomodation on one floor level, the fwd cabin and en-suite is a step down, AND, is immediately in front of the lower helm station, which houses the warm air heater.  We`ve already decided at this years AGM to have abother CO alarm in the fwd cabin, but does CO sink like gas, or could it be lighter than air filling the top half of the accomodation?. I think it`s important to know, so any alarm (s) fitted can be fitted in the most appropriate places?.

 

[ChrisB]

9 hours ago, TheQ said:

yep although I later converted it to the much? less smoke producing 20 to 1

Yes, I also re-jeted mine about 79/80, the atmosphere in the cockpit of my self build SeaWych was much better. 

You know with age I think I have lost my touch. We were moored at Cobbs Quay, Poole and no reverse did not worry me.

[diesel falcon]

53 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

I have`nt read ALL this thread, as i`m off to watch BSB in a short while, and somebody else might have asked the question already.  We have a CO alarm on Lightning, which is tested most weeks, maybe we should have a syndicate recommendation it`s check EVERY week?. My question is though, is carbon monoxide heavier than air, as gas for cookers etc is, and in the event of a leak, will build up from the bilges up, which can easily lead to an explosion. Our CO alarmn is fitted next to the upper helm steps in front of the engine house, and also about six feet fwd of the cooker. However, although Lightning (exactly the same layout as Thunder) has most of her accomodation on one floor level, the fwd cabin and en-suite is a step down, AND, is immediately in front of the lower helm station, which houses the warm air heater.  We`ve already decided at this years AGM to have abother CO alarm in the fwd cabin, but does CO sink like gas, or could it be lighter than air filling the top half of the accomodation?. I think it`s important to know, so any alarm (s) fitted can be fitted in the most appropriate places?.

 

co can exist at high or low level, it can even linger in a corner of a cabin at a dangerous level while the rest of the space is ok,  because of this detecters should be placed at head height, but remember whilst your sleeping  where,s your head(hopefully not in the gutter!!) , all to do with the weight s of the different gases ,which i cant think of the exact answer at the mo!!

hear,s what i was trying to explain http://carbonmonoxidedetectorbeeping.com/correct-understanding-about-carbon-monoxide-weight-to-air/

 

Edited August 10, 2016 by diesel falcon
info

[Guest]

2 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Why the dependence on electricity? For example oil lamps have a charm that as yet has not been replicated. Tinned food doesn't need a fridge and so the list could go on.

We have recently embarked on the restoration of a Martham woodie. A long story in the making, I fear. One recent acquisition, though (in the hope that one day we will stop taking stuff out and start putting it in) was a pair of these.

[Matt]

2 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Why the dependence on electricity? For example oil lamps have a charm that as yet has not been replicated. Tinned food doesn't need a fridge and so the list could go on.

Not sure why we bother with painkillers/painrelief these days either as one upon a time bitting on a stick was all that was needed..........

[JennyMorgan]

32 minutes ago, Spider said:

We have recently embarked on the restoration of a Martham woodie. A long story in the making, I fear. One recent acquisition, though (in the hope that one day we will stop taking stuff out and start putting it in) was a pair of these.

A few more here:

http://classicmarine.co.uk/boatstore/product.asp?strParents=0,34&CAT_ID=71&P_ID=248

Oil lamps in a wood lined cabin, yummy. A pack of cards, good friends, a few bottles of Broadside, well varnished wood, life doesn't come much better than that. 

[stumpy]

JM - with a background of pipe smoke and a faint whiff of Stockholm Tar?

[Viking23]

Response to CO alarms from the Boat Safety Scheme, they responded within 24 hours. something went wrong with the formatting, text size etc, that's ipads for you lol.

I asked for permission to publish their response and just had an email to say ok. The BSS have opened the door for valued discussion.This is a chance to promote the awareness of "The silent killer."

 

Dear Richard,

Thank you for contacting the BSS via our website.

My answer to your query is by necessity quite complex. The nature of my answer is not meant to appear evasive, it sets out our position openly.

Our BSS advice is if you have any fuel burning appliances aboard, an engine or generator, fit a suitable audible carbon monoxide alarm for an added re-assurance. Alarms approved as meeting BS EN 50291-2 are best suited for boats.

We are developing an enhanced role for all BSS examiners that will lead to examiners collecting data about CO alarms, their certification and their functionality. The main aim of this role change is for examiners to engage and share information with boat owners to influence behaviour. Behavioural causes, as opposed to failing equipment, dominate the causal factors of nearly all boat CO fatalities. No fatalities are recorded whereby the source of CO came from a next-door boat.

Recognising that examiners only visit boats/owners once every four years action to encourage CO alarm ownership must be shared with others such as boat user groups, fire and rescue services and Navigation Authorities as well as and boatyards, marinas and brokers. We see that partnerships to promote CO awareness and encourage CO alarm take-up as the way forward

Campaigns on the media, social media and by navigation authorities can also be expected to raise awareness with people new to boating still learning the ropes and for old hands who may not be paying as much attention as they should. Users of that social media platforms are invited and encouraged to promote our published information on the risks and mitigations.

It is essential that those participating in and new to boating seek information about the risks to which they may be subjected. The BSS provides good and authoritative safety advice on the CO safety subject.http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/stay-safe/carbon-monoxide-(co)/

The question of introducing an ‘advice’ BSS check or a ‘mandatory’ BSS check for the presence of an effective CO alarm is the subject of a risk review and assessment process with our BSS Technical Committee. Last year a previous review determined not to proceed along the route of introducing a BSS requirement for CO alarms on private craft. From the information above you will appreciate that examiners are to record whether an alarm is present, its certification and its functionality. This is in one sense a new BSS check and the lack of a functioning CO alarm would result in advice to fit one being left with the owner. The data collected through this exercise will inform the ongoing risk review at BSS Technical Committee.

The reasons why the previous risk review did not support the introduction of a new BSS check for CO alarms on private craft are summarised as follows:

·           BSS activity, in partnership, to enhance boater awareness and influence boater behaviour to avoid CO poisoning incidents and improve CO alarm uptake will likely be successful. If these initiatives are not successful then this risk review can be re-visited.

·           The BSS should be cautious in making mandatory a ‘secondary’ form of protection for private craft and should continue to focus the primary risk control measures, i.e. the prevention of dangerous levels of CO occurring within the confined spaces of a boat.

·           Not all those in the boating community would accept being forced to install CO alarms. Without an acceptance that detection is a chosen form of protection, in a minority of circumstances it is unlikely that alarm activation will be reacted to or that alarms/batteries will be deployed/maintained outside of the time of the BSS Examination.

·           A possible unintended consequence of the introduction of CO alarms could be that the presence of alarms may cause some boaters to relax primary safety standards increasing risks of dangerous conditions occurring; and could cause some owners to relax standards of installation and maintenance. Registered gas engineers report this to Gas Safe Register. In extreme situations owners may say to themselves, “I won’t clear the stove chimney until I’m alerted to a problem by the CO alarm”, or “I’m safe using the petrol generator on the rear deck because I have a CO alarm”. CO alarms are only effective if owners have an acceptance that alarms purely provide an additional level of protection to proper installation, maintenance and use.

·           Persuading boat owners to choose to be protected by CO alarms and owners having an adequate level of understanding of the CO risks and the importance of adequate installation and maintenance, together with knowledge of the symptoms of CO poisoning and what to do if CO poisoning is suspected - is the only effective way to combat boat CO risk issues.

As I say, this subject is under further review and the recent tragedy on Wroxham Broad will inform the review, however I have documented our current position on the subject you raise.

I hope the information provided is helpful for you.

If you have any suggestions as to how to ensure a successful campaign please let me know.

Kind regards,

Graham Watts

BSS Manager

Boat Safety Scheme

First Floor North

Station House

500 Elder Gate

Milton Keynes

MK9 1BB

 

Ph 0333 202 1000

Mb 07711 796417

 

www.boatsafetyscheme.org

T: @BSS_BoatSafety

G+:  Boat Safety Scheme

Fb:  BSS.BoatSafety

The Boat Safety Scheme is a public safety initiative owned by the Canal & River Trust  and the Environment Agency. The Scheme is administered by Canal & River Trust which is registered charity in England and Wales (1146792)

 

 

From: bss.enquiries@boatsafetyscheme.org [mailto:bss.enquiries@boatsafetyscheme.org] 
Sent: 10 August 2016 15:21
To: (BSS) BSS Enquiries
Subject: BSS Contact Form about: CO alarms and BSS certification

 

	My email to BSS
	CO alarms and BSS certification
	Dear Sir or Madam, with reference to Carbon Monoxide detectors on boats, I read recently on a BSS publication, that Carbon Monoxide detectors are recommended to be fitted to boats. They are as yet, not a requirement. In June this year, two people and a dog died from Carbon Monoxide poisoning on a boat on the Norfolk Broads, this was confirmed after a recent enquiry. There are many other deaths that occur on a regular basis from Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Could you please advise if the BSS are planning to include the CO monitors as part of the Safety Certificate. If you are not, can you please give me the reasons why not. There have been several discussions on this on two Norfolk Broads forums that I frequent, and I would like to publish your comments on these forums, with your permission of course. Deaths from Carbon Monoxide can occur on boats without fuel burning devices on board, as fumes from adjacent boats on moorings can enter canopies and enter the cabin. I await your comments, as this has a very wide implication, we have our own CO alarm, and this has gone off from the fumes of an outboard close by. Boats have other sources of CO, gas powered fridges, central heating flues, or on board generators, these are often run into the night, and the Broads Authority encourages double mooring, and stern moorings where boats are only a few inches from each other, this coupled with high quaysides can create large plumes of deadly Carbon Monoxide, which can enter canopies, or boat ventilators having the potential to kill all on board. Do we have to wait for further deaths before something is done, or are you planning to introduce Carbon Monoxide detectors as an essential part of boat safety equipment. Carbon Monoxide, the silent killer, but it can also kill innocent people who are not aware of the killer gas. I await your swift reply. Best regards, Richard.

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org

 

[Wildfuzz]

11 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

A few more here:

http://classicmarine.co.uk/boatstore/product.asp?strParents=0,34&CAT_ID=71&P_ID=248

Oil lamps in a wood lined cabin, yummy. A pack of cards, good friends, a few bottles of Broadside, well varnished wood, life doesn't come much better than that. 

Sounds like a recipe for a Viking type pyre to me!!!!!

[Baitrunner]

Thanks Viking, a very good letter and thanks for posting the response.

At least it was a very detailed response and I can see their logic in education rather than invocation, but sometimes stupid is stupid and needs a little helping hand!

To quote one segment -  Not all those in the boating community would accept being forced to install CO alarms. Without an acceptance that detection is a chosen form of protection, in a minority of circumstances it is unlikely that alarm activation will be reacted to or that alarms/batteries will be deployed/maintained outside of the time of the BSS Examination.

Isn't this the case for fire extinguishers etc? It's only valid (like an MOT) at the time it is done. I have heard of people borrowing fire extinguishers to get through a BSS so I think this reason is a non starter. 

Education is great and we all know CO kills, but it will never happen to us will it?

I now there have been very few related deaths on boats, but it seems mad to wait till we have people dying left right and centre before we do anything about it. And surely protecting the innocent is a good enough reason as it is likely children will be more susceptible to CO poisoning (as I was when it happened to me and my parents were in the same room and fine) than their parents who may be having a ciggy or G&T up on deck.

IMHO it should be mandatory and it is on my boat!!!

[grendel]

13 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

A few more here:

http://classicmarine.co.uk/boatstore/product.asp?strParents=0,34&CAT_ID=71&P_ID=248

Oil lamps in a wood lined cabin, yummy. A pack of cards, good friends, a few bottles of Broadside, well varnished wood, life doesn't come much better than that. 

And surely as a fuel burning apparatus, a carbon monoxide detector should be a must with one of these too.

[Viking23]

I have also contacted The Broads Authority, Marine federation, and the hire boat federation with a copy of The BSS response.

I wonder what Richo's and other large hire boat companies think of this. 

[Viking23]

Already I have had a reply from the BA, just hours after my email, I await their permission to publish their reply.

From what has happened today, the authorities are listening, we are their voice, what we MUST do is log incidents when CO alarms go off from fumes produces by other boats.

In general, in my opinion the BSS certification is mostly biassed to reducing harm to third parties, if you are silly enough to refill a petrol tank in a lock, with a gas fridge on or a pilot light on a water heater, well that is clealy your fault, but if you attempt this whilst another boat shares the same lock, then this is more serious. Similarly if you run your engine with exhaust fumes entering your cabin, then tough luck. Doesn't seem fair, so this is why things must change, in my opinion of course, and many others are supporters of this too having read the forums.

I will post BA's response when permission is given.

best regards, Richard.

[Vaughan]

I had hoped to see a bit more comment on the BSS letter, so well instigated by Viking23, who rightly takes this very seriously.

There are two paragraphs in their comprehensive reply which stand out for me :

"No fatalities are recorded where the source of CO came from a next-door boat" I don't know whether to be relieved or surprised by this but it is what he says, all the same.

" CO alarms are only effective if owners have an acceptance that alarms purely provide an additional level of protection to proper installation, maintenance and use" (my italics).

I am glad to see that the BSS are taking the practical approach that I had expected to see from them. They, as a safety standards body, prefer to take steps to prevent the release of CO into a boat, rather than relying on an alarm to hopefully go off, after the poison is already there. They also state clearly that they have resisted the enforcement of these alarms, in the fear that people will relax their standards of maintenance, preferring to think that it's OK, as the alarm will tell me if anything is wrong.

All hire boats are checked and tested every year by a qualified fitter before they go out in the Spring. Can we say this of all private boats? Do you really have your boat checked every year, including the ventilation and the cooker burners? Do you not think this essential, for peace of mind and safety? As others have said, this is not just to do with the BSS : this is routine preventive maintenance.

[Viking23]

This topic is progressing very well, this morning I received an email from Steve Birtles, giving me permission to publish his comments.

The key point to going forward, is not waiting for someone to die from fumes from an adjacent boat, but to report all incidences of even your CO monitor going off, from fumes outside your control. Take details, Time Date, location, name of third party boat, and source of CO if known, as said in Steve's reply, contact Broads Control, but I suggest you also send a copy to the BSS.

Together, we can stop this silent killer.

 

 

Dear Richard,

 

Thank you for contacting the Broads Authority regarding this issue.

 

The Broads Authority has used its legal powers to introduce the requirements of the Boat Safety Scheme for applicable boats as  its statutory construction and equipment standards. The Boat Safety Scheme requirements primarily deal with control measure which addresses the risks to third parties from fire , explosions and pollution which we have a duty to manage.

The Authority works closely with the Boat Safety Scheme and we have officers who are members of the BSS Technical Committee and the BSS Management Committee so we are very involved with risk reviews and influencing policy. 

We support the work of the Boat Safety Scheme and at every opportunity promulgate the information from the Scheme relating to the management of risks, and following development in the recent tragic deaths have published the guidance offered by the MAIB and the Boat Safety Scheme through website via the Urgent Boating News page. The notice boards on our 24 hour moorings will soon be populated with information on Carbon Monoxide as we see that raising awareness of the hazard as an important element of the risk control. In an effort to reach those new to boating we have visited yacht brokers and chandlers to distribute leaflets on Carbon monoxide and the brokers have agreed to include the leaflet in the handover pack when boats are sold.

 

The recent review of the BSS requirements for hire boats in 2015  identified a risk to hirers from carbon monoxide on hire boats fitted with solid fuel stoves. The BSS have recently changed the requirements for hire boats to reflect this risk review outcome however there is no BSS requirement for CO Alarms to be fitted to all hire boats nor private boats.

 

The current position of the Authority with respect to CO alarms reflects that of the BSS, we too recommend that boat owners consider fitting CO alarms but this is seen as part of a suite of measures including raising awareness of the issue with boat owners.

 

The Authority is currently supporting both the Marine Accident Investigation Branch and the Boat Safety Scheme to help further understand the circumstances of the tragic accident.  As Graham Watts has said the subject of carbon monoxide is under further review and as more detailed information becomes available the BSS and the Broads Authority will review and identify any additional control measures if they are needed.

If following any further review of Carbon Monoxide risk the compulsory fitting of CO monitors is identified as a requirement we will work with the BSS and use the powers available to the Authority to implement such measures, in accordance with the statutory consultation requirements.

 

In your original email to Graham you mention that you have a CO monitor and that it activated when you were moored close to a petrol powered boat. We would be interested in any occurrence of this kind and I would encourage the forum members to report such instances to Broads Control on 01603 756056 or email broads.control@broads-authority.gov.uk.

 

Kind regards

 

Steve Birtles

Head of Safety Management

Broads Authority

Tel 01603 756078

 

From: webmaster@broads-authority.gov.uk [mailto:webmaster@broads-authority.gov.uk] 
Sent: 11 August 2016 10:57
To: Broads Control
Subject: Website contact enquiry - ref: 776735

[LondonRascal]

Having read the response from both the Boat Safety Scheme and Broads Authority it seems pretty obvious that nothing much will change.

The Boat Safety Scheme do not wish to bring in new statutory rules requiring the fitment of CO alarms on boats, because I do agree there would be a lot of opposition from many boat owners being required to fit such an alarm in a suitable place, spend out on one and then have to maintain it and should they not keep such maintained may cause a failure of their BSS and the rigmarole of re-arranging another test once they have sorted the issue at hand with their alarm.

The Broads Authority can only follow it seems in the footsteps of the Boat Safety Scheme, so should it be decided after all that CO alarms are a requirement of the BSS  then of course the Broads Authority would help with information regarding the change but could not take it upon themselves (however sensible some may feel it would be) to push for changes to make CO alarms a requirement – even within the jurisdiction of the Broads Authority area (and imagine how hard that would be to police).

So, what do you do if you are a large hire boat operator looking at matters and perhaps some of your customers raise the point about why their boat has no CO alarm fitted? I’d say they would reassure the customer of the stringent safety checks that are carried out on hire boats go, the fact that the boats all have adequate (and I would guess more than adequate) ventilation onboard and how few instances there are of CO poising on the Broads each year.   If you are a boatyard who uses CO alarms on your boats and promote this as a feature of improved safety, does it make your boats appear inherently less safe than others and that is why you fitted the CO alarms? Does it make your customers consider things less worrisome about blocking ventilation spaces and draft that’s come from them because ‘the alarm will go off if there is a problem’? 

As with many matters there is risk there is often something easy and relatively cheap to help mitigate that risk – in this case a CO alarm, but be it in the aviation industry, shipping or railway, or vehicular it takes an age and a lot of pushing (and often sadly deaths) to ever actual cause change.

While people’s hearts might be in the right place, as far as I can see the bottom line is cost.  It would cost a great deal for the BSS to be updated, and for those who carry out the inspection work to be informed of the new rules and updated material to be printed etc. You can bet your boots it would not be as simple as checking a boat has a CO alarm, pressing the test button and moving on to next area of inspection on the boat.

So I come full circle to my opening sentence, I can’t see anything changing – look at the issues surrounding 240v mains electricity increasingly found on boats and the BSS slowly moving with regard to this which is also potentially life threatening if it is a ‘Heath Robinson’ installation.  

The best that can be done I think is for the Broads Authority to spend some money as they have about lifejackets pushing the point about CO and the real risks it poses, about adequate ventilation and the very good idea it is to fit an alarm. It would not cost a great deal with increasingly numbers of owners using the online system to renew Tolls, the Broads Authority surely have many people’s email addresses they could write to once a year to remind people of the risks.

[Bound2Please]

21 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

So I come full circle to my opening sentence, I can’t see anything changing – look at the issues surrounding 240v mains electricity increasingly found on boats and the BSS slowly moving with regard to this which is also potentially life threatening if it is a ‘Heath Robinson’ installation.  

 risks.

 

In all honesty how many ever think about the 240v on their boats, a very lethal combination water and electric. I have seen first hand electric and water years ago... I think that 240V is more likely to cause a problem than CO remember you cant see it you cant smell it but it can kill you 240v Electric that is...

Yes we do have a CO detector but prevention is better than a cure.

Charlie

[riyadhcrew]

For what it's worth, Fair Chancellor had a detector at head height in the aft half of the boat. However, I don't know if they are fitted on all their boats.

[Vaughan]

57 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

So, what do you do if you are a large hire boat operator looking at matters and perhaps some of your customers raise the point about why their boat has no CO alarm fitted? I’d say they would reassure the customer of the stringent safety checks that are carried out on hire boats go, the fact that the boats all have adequate (and I would guess more than adequate) ventilation onboard and how few instances there are of CO poising on the Broads each year.   If you are a boatyard who uses CO alarms on your boats and promote this as a feature of improved safety, does it make your boats appear inherently less safe than others and that is why you fitted the CO alarms? Does it make your customers consider things less worrisome about blocking ventilation spaces and draft that’s come from them because ‘the alarm will go off if there is a problem’? 

Robin, you have just hit (spot on) on the conundrum which boatyards have always been faced with. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. But at least hire boats are regulated (and a great deal of it comes from self-regulation) in a much more comprehensive way than private boats.

What is coming out of this debate (for me) is that these alarms are easily available and cheap, so why not fit one, if it makes you feel safer? No-one is stopping you, neither the BSS or the BA, so why hold back unless, or until, they oblige you?

What concerns me, and the BSS letter supports me in this, is that you cannot then stop worrying about the gas, or diesel, installations on your boat, just because it has an alarm. This approach is likely to be more hazardous to your own safety.

By the way when I say "you" I don't mean you personally! I respect your concern to do what you consider best for safety on board your boat.

As to hire companies I can't speak for them as I am retired, but I know how they must be feeling. They are easily fitted and cheap, so why not? Others have said on other threads "when in doubt, call the boatyard emergency number". I can just imagine, as a boatyard manager, being repeatedly got out of bed at 10 o' clock at night because someone has been spraying their armpits in the aft cabin and the blasted alarm has gone off. That's why we no longer fit gas detectors. As a manager, you have no choice. You have got to get in your car and go out to the boat and see what is wrong. If you are not able to convince your customers that they are not about to die you may well end up having to get them off the boat and put them in a hotel for the night.

So I (and the BSS it seems) prefer to concentrate on stopping the release of CO in the first place.

[TheQ]

As someone who has worked with Electricity from 0V to 50,000V,  Current less than 1uA  through to effectively unlimited current (live national grid). I much prefer to work with electricity, it takes a lot to get it to escape it's little plastic tubes and unless using extremely high voltages (unlikely in a boat) it doesn't leap out and get you. Which is why my boat is all electric except the generator.

This means, there will be times when I run the generator on a mooring, although it is in a silent pack and shortly I'll install even more sound insulation as the exhaust pipe itself is letting the noise out ( left over insulation from a jet engine test bay!!). The Diesel generator will produce a lot less smoke and other substances, as it's modern and only got 150 hours on the clock unlike the positively ancient BMC 1500 it replaced.

 Oh and the system will be properly installed, I even have the bits to put a 16a fuse in the 32A to 16 A cable adaptor ( imediately after the 32a PLUG)

[Vaughan]

18 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Oh and the system will be properly installed, I even have the bits to put a 16a fuse in the 32A to 16 A cable adaptor ( imediately after the 32a PLUG)

Ah, but is your circuit going to be protected by a bi-polar thermal cutout to trip both side of the circuit in the event of a problem? And are you fitting an automatic polarity changer? Polarity cannot be relied upon with shore power. Most importantly, will your circuit be fully earthed to the shore and totally independent of any other circuits (or earths) on the boat? This is most important when fitting battery chargers.

This is not the subject of this thread but if you want to open a new one, I will gladly contribute.

[grendel]

for those that complained of the lack of electricity posts, and why could they not install more along a mooring. At the rates we are charged for trenchwork and cost of cable installation, I worked it out at approximately £2000 per boat length along a mooring, now, the landowner can probably dig a trench cheaper, but this is to the depths and safety constraints of a proper electrical feeder installation. No wonder the posts are not run the whole length of a mooring.

[JennyMorgan]

Perhaps we should complain about the excess of power hungry boats?