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riyadhcrew

Help With Boat Buying

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Good evening peeps,

I have a friend who is a 3 times per year hirer. He is looking for a starter boat to change to ownership. No idea of budget, but he did say that it must have heating and be capable of supporting 2 peeps for a few weeks at a time. Any help I can give him would be appreciated, so your advice would be welcomed.

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Like car buyers fall into 1. Will only ever buy new. 2. Will only ever by used, knowing how that squares with him would help. That is to say £40K covers hundreds of used jobbies but nowhere near as many out of the mould new grp and no new woodies unless pretty much a dinghy.

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Hi Eric,

It may be better for your friend to try syndicate ownership (maybe one of the syndicates that offers four weeks per year) this will give them an halfway house between rental and full ownership. Tan and I have never regretted our syndicate ownership (now into our 16th year) but we only have two weeks per year maybe after retirement we may purchase another share.

Regards

Alan

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Eric.

We were in a similar position about 3 years ago. We looked at syndicates and buying outright. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

We had decided to purchase a boat but didn't know what we wanted. We spent 2 years looking and weighing up costs. We set our budget to buy, weighed up how much we would use and how much it would cost for a day boat for a couple of visits a year or if hired for a week or 2  if we didn't buy. 

We purchased an ex richarsons crown gem for under £10k and left a slush fund for any circumstances that could arise. 

When buying you also need to consider on going costs. Our boat stands us just under 3k a year. That includes mooring at moonfleet, insurance, service, breakdown, toll etc. Work never ends on a boat. There is always something that needs doing or something you want to improve. 

You can of course cut some costs and shop around. 

We live an hour and half away which makes it very easy to pop up and we have used the boat more than we budgeted for to make it worth it. It has been so much fun and has meant we have been able to go as and when we wanted.

I suppose the first question is how far do the live from the broads and to weigh up how much they think they would use it to make it worth it. 

If they live fairly close and will use a lot. Do as we did. 

If further a field then as alan says syndicate. 

If they have any questions they are more than welcome to pm me or I can pm you my email address. 

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As an owner, if he can only manage 3 weeks a year it does not make sense to buy, the running costs equals about 2 weeks on a decent boat. The purchase outlay would pay for ?years of hiring. If like us ( idle poor) do 2 weeks every month (600 mile round trip), about 14 weeks a year. Then it makes sense(?) If you want it to.

We usually have a weeks holiday!, on a cruise for a change. Next year  a Norway cruise. Then that will be the end of holidays until 2019.

BUT if itis an itch that really needs scratching then it must be a buy.

paul

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Hi Eric

Few things to maybe chat over with them so that then you can help them move to a position of making a start without just going all round the houses or wasting too much time:

  • How much would they like to spend roughly (monthly or outright. If monthly next stage is to look at some loans to turn the payment into the amount this will generate
  • How many berths are required (you mention two, are any further berths needed or desirable)
  • Are they happy to have any areas restricted, or any favourite bits of the waterway they have
  • The above point leads to style of boats considered (aft cockpit, centre cockpit, sedan, forward steer, dual etc.  Point one may immediately eliminate some)
  • Where will they keep it.  Some rough mooring, insurance & running costs are good to have in mind
  • Have they remembered they cant just tur up & go in quite the same way as hiring.  Is some time allowed for tidying, maintaining, winterising etc, or if not a bit more cost to factor

Dan

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Hi Eric

Having  had 6 very enjoyable years of Evening Shadow boat share  (limited holidays and kids to think about) we are now on to our 4th own boat in 12 years.

I think if your friend can only do 3 weeks on his own boat he will finish up on a cleaning holiday on every visit.

I think you will need to be able to use a boat for a min of 5/6 weeks of use to make a full boat ownership worth it. But have a major advantage of going to use the boat at short notice and when it suites you.

£3K to £4k mooring and maitainance budget annualy  if all in running order without upgrades needed.

hope that helps

Regards John

 

 

 

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As someone who spends 'a few weeks at a time' on the Broads, I would suggest it has to be outright ownership. I would also suggest it is a boat built for the Broads and the low bridges, that means that the whole network is open for cruising. When we started looking, we were looking at something around 30 feet but eventually settled for a 35ft bathtub and I am so glad we did for these reasons:

All bridges negotiable at suitable states of the tide.

The extra room (there are only 2 of us and 2 small dogs) allows us to carry everything we need for the duration of our trip including spares that might come in handy.

The bathtub style is one level and as we are getting older and less agile this makes life easier for us both inside and out.

The front well has a canopy and that virtually makes an extra area when moored up. Useful for dog drying and hanging up wet coats etc.

I hope these thoughts help, boat buying and owning is expensive and needs to be thoroughly thought through. Good luck to your friends Eric, I hope they find what they want and can soon join the Broads Brigade on a more permanent basis. :Stinky

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Personally I would advise that the very first thing your friends do Eric, is to join this forum.

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Hi Eric..

This is always a tough one!

You don't get much change from £10k for a broads boat with a shower, ready to go with little work for sometime and large enough to be comfortable on for a weeks holiday. Yes there's deals to be had but they will need work.

Orca costs us £2.5k a year before maintenance (and probably another £1k for that... it helps if you can do work yourself though, otherwise it's way more expensive). 

We only use Orca about 3 weeks a year but pretty much every other weekend. 

You really need to be dedicated to boating to get monies worth out of having a boat. You have to live and breath boating.. you really can't have any other holidays.. it can be like gym membership.. You have to use it.. sometimes you don't want to, but when you go it's amazing! it's also near to imposible to sell if you don't like it!! But yup it can be a nightmare!

But boating is nothing about "Monies worth" it's a lifestyle and there are many many uncalcuable reasons to be boating as we all know.. Owning your own boat is just magical.. i.e, if the weathers good.. "right up on the boat", being able to navigate after dark opens a hole new world... you aren't limited by anything and navigating after or near dark is amazing certainly on the broads. (Personally I think its a big shame some people may never experience it. The rivers are really amazing and at their best out of season and in the evenings).

When we was without a (toy) boat (in norfolk) we had a 2 second discussion.. "Do we really want our own boat?", "Yes". "OK".. but that thought did pass through my mind for a moment.

I wouldn't worry about how much time they can use it.. it just makes it more expensive if they don't get much use (but they may find they will spend more weekends than they thoughts which makes it work a bit better). But it can't be only based on Money, if it is then I suggest they go down the syndicate to start or continue hiring until funds/time permit. Also if they aren't handy then I suggest owning a boat is not wise. 

If they do do it, I suggest they get a boat with a shower and large enough as the worse thing is having a boat which is too small/cramped not with the best facilities as they will probably be disappointed and use less. Very good points about getting a broads boat which will go under the bridges, although a boat capable of going to sea will broaden horizons but if all they want is the Broads then certainly a Broads boat.. (again though they need to consider that they will be using out of season so a boat with a hardtop is wise too).

Get them to Join the forum!!

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There are some bargains to be had a AlphaCraft?

Seriously though, there may be one worth picking up if it's a bargain and they don't mind doing some work on it.

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We, are just two + occasional dogs, but we chose a 4 berth centre cockpit boat. One cabin will stay made up as a bedroom, the other as the living room / kitchen. Should we have overnight guests then we have the separate cabins. Like others we chose a boat that could go anywhere on the broads.

 The economics are the thing, because I can do most maintenance inside and on top of the boat that does keep the costs down, but eats into cruising time. Also belonging to a sailing club, that has moorings, is cheaper than commercial moorings, but brings with it the responsibility of doing duties round the club. (and the advantage of social events)

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Agree with what Alan has said we have been in syndicate boats or proper title is shared ownership now for some time now. This is our second one. We find it fits with time off work, lower costs and to be able to arrive and set off on our weeks suits us fine.

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If you do look at the link to the auction I would probably avoid buying Mustang if I were you.  

From what I was told the saloon roof came off pretty badly. 

Blenheim might be tempting but I would want a thoroughly good look at it first.

image.jpeg

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I think maybe some clarification is needed here. My understanding of the OP was that the interested party was looking for a boat to to purchase to use for a few weeks at a time not a few weeks each year. That would surely make a difference when deciding between outright ownership or shared ownership?

Was it Mustang that was trapped under Thorpe bridge? 

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Our first boat was a Shetland 760. one of only 3 made. Perfect size for us two and the occasional pair of guests. What should be considered is that if you choose to buy a boat you're not just buying a boat you re buying into a  completely different style of life. Because boat ownership is life changing. Boating is like Marmite you either love it or hate it! if it's the former, it takes priority over practically everything else.
Don't even consider it if you are not reasonably handy at routine maintenance. If you have to pay someone to do the most minor things like winterising , oil changes etc. it will be eye-wateringly expensive. Just think of a boat as a hole in the river into which you continually pour your dosh! Surprisingly, if you love your boat you won't mind the cost a bit. If they want virtually instant friends,( there's no-one nicer than the boating fraternity), an ever-changing fascinating environment and instant sanity tell them to go for it!!

Regards

Carole

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On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 7:13 PM, riyadhcrew said:

I have a friend

Come on Eric,

That's like me saying to the doctor, I have a friend who has a problem, what should I tell him to do about it.

You can admit that you want to buy a boat....:naughty:

:Stinky

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Have to say I'm in the camp of if your only going to use it for three weeks don't buy hire, my 25ft Birchwood, for mooring, insurance, river tax and fuel works out at around £40.00 per week, I use it around 150 days a year but that cost dosn't include things like servicing or any work needed on the boat, I do most of my own but a couple of minor engine/gearbox problems have just cost me over £800.00 to get fixed, then if he has it serviced every year thats around £150.00, lift out and antifoul probably another £250.00, you can pick up a half decent boat for 6/7k but when you factor in the above apart from my repair your still up near 9/10k and thats without any work bringing it up to scratch.

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It's all about how much cash you have, how much do you want to spend, do you want ultimate flexibility, are you happy to do a shared ownership with set weeks etc, etc. all the good stuff mentioned here.

Shared ownership wouldn't suit us and hiring is very restrictive unless you can plan well in advance.

For instance we took friends out Sunday for half a day on whim and it was worth a lot of money to us to be able to do that. And the boat was ready to go.

I'd say cost and utilisation probably play a big part in your choices.

 

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