Running Engines At Moorings

[vanessan]

I have started this new thread (I hope I will be forgiven for doing so) because the subject of running engines at moorings has many different viewpoints. 

It has been said, and it is widely agreed, that an engine needs to be run for 3 maybe 4 hours daily in order to keep the batteries fully charged - particularly on some hire boats where the batteries may be naff. On some boats it may be considerably less. For many this is no problem, certainly most hirers will want to get as much cruising in per day as possible. Equally, there will be many private owners that have limited time on their boats each year and again will want to spend time cruising. But there are many retired boaters on the Broads who are able to spend long periods afloat and may not want to go too far at some point, maybe only a half hour down the river. There are also hirers who have done the rushing about bit and now want to spend time exploring the delights ashore and that may mean not going too far either. That's ok if shore power is available (and the private/hire boat is able to use it) but it may not be, what then? The only option is to run the engine when moored. It is of course possible to wild moor on one's own for some considerable time then running an engine doesn't affect anyone else to any great extent but wild mooring is not always an option for one reason or another. It's a conundrum! 

There appear to be forum members who are totally against running engines at moorings so my question is 'what do people do if they need to charge batteries'? It is surely unreasonable to expect folk to keep cruising round when they want to stop. I know this will bring on the usual arguments about fumes/noise etc but is there an acceptable answer?? 

[kfurbank]

There is actually a very easy answer. To make the most of limited cruising time for charging batteries have two alternators and plenty of batteries. Twin alternators charging will increase engine load and therefore warm the engine quicker and therefore the calorifier. A win win situation if wanting to do limited cruising. With enough batteries you can suffer not fully recharging them for a couple of days until your next reasonable cruise.

I spent five days afloat recently and did just 9hrs engine run time during the whole period. Never had a flat battery or lack of hot water.

 

[vanessan]

12 minutes ago, kfurbank said:

There is actually a very easy answer. To make the most of limited cruising time for charging batteries have two alternators and plenty of batteries. Twin alternators charging will increase engine load and therefore warm the engine quicker and therefore the calorifier. A win win situation if wanting to do limited cruising. With enough batteries you can suffer not fully recharging them for a couple of days until your next reasonable cruise.

I spent five days afloat recently and did just 9hrs engine run time during the whole period. Never had a flat battery or lack of hot water.

 

Certainly a good suggestion for a private boater but what about the hirer who doesn't want to go too far? How many batteries would 'plenty' be?

[addicted]

This business of running engines is a bit of a conundrum. Of course needing something fairly basic like hot water is not unreasonable. I think most antipathy towards folk who run their engines stems from being the victims of inconsiderate incidents such as the hire boat moored near to us at Loddon the weekend before last who started his engine at 9.00 pm and ran it for a considerable time and then  again at 7.15am. Had he been moored next to us without doubt we would have "had a word" which would probably not have been very well received. It mostly takes a bit of common sense and consideration for it not to be a problem. I don't think there is a solution to the problem of the smelly engine. That's a pain whatever time it is running.

regards,

Carole 

[JennyMorgan]

The desire of the yards to provide all the comforts of home is probably the root of most of the problems. 

[riyadhcrew]

I have been on a few new hire boats recently with all the mod cons on board. I believe that the yards installed the battery and charging capacities to cope with the extra loads, because I never had to run the engine at unsociable hours for electrical appliances. What I will say is that one of the boats had very little 'hot water storage' and the water would be cold in the morning, with nobody using it the night before. I duly reported this to the yard and hope they will do something about it.

[ChrisB]

I think you have said the word "New" 

Older boat/ancient boat = old batt bank * reluctance to buy multiple expensive replacements = poor batt capacity  & anti-social running. QED.

[BroadScot]

28 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

I think you have said the word "New" 

Older boat/ancient boat = old batt bank * reluctance to buy multiple expensive replacements = poor batt capacity  & anti-social running. QED.

A lot of mileage in that reply, Chris.

Iain

[BroadAmbition]

It is a conundrum (Proper surprised I spelt that 'rite')  But in defence of the hirer they have no choice.  It's not like they can specify a larger battery bank with twin alternators, water jacket calorifier rather than single or twin loops and top grade insulation,  solar panels, LED lighting throughout, they might not have the option to plug their chosen hire boat into shore power even if it is available  etc etc - Nope they get what they are given with regards to the crafts water / electrical system and have to make the best of it.  We privateers can of course do something about it, but that costs and not all have deep enough pockets so again some just have to make do.

I rarely run 'B.A's Beta alongside especially if there are other craft adjacent, as has been said on a wild mooring or a deserted mooring it matters not a jot.  Shore power is also a bonus of course.  So I have sympathy for hirers and try to exercise due tolerance.  That tolerance runs out if it is proper late or v.early and yes I do knock on a few cabin doors and have a 'Word' but do try do so politely.

Two examples both stern berthed at the New Inn, Horning.

1)  A group of girlie's on the next boat next to us - I overheard them contemplating they had no hot water and wanted showers hair washing etc and that they would have to start the engine up.  It was after dark at around 2000-ish and I wasn't going to enjoy the engine being run for that long for six or so girly showers / hair washing.  Right I'll sort this one out, I explained to them that to get that much hot water would take well over an hour and it was not really on BUT they could come over one or two at a time and use 'B.A', we were plugged into shore power had a full hot water tank, plus turbo hair dryers etc, so they duly did.  Very grateful they were too and I got a few smiles / kisses and drinks in the bar that evening - See - easily sorted

2)  Quite a few years ago on one of our Lads weeks whilst stern on same venue, we got back onboard at around 2330 when a large hire craft right next door to 'B.A' flashed up his engine at fast idle.  I knocked on their aft door, two chaps appeared, I polity pointed out the time / Noise / Exhaust fumes issues to them, the response? - 'You can't make us mate' and slammed the door shut! Not very nice and a bit rude to be honest.  Sigh - Time to rally the troops who were still up, well not all 22 of us just a dozen or so now stood on the quay heading with arms folded, I knocked on the door again which flew open (They were obviously expecting me I think) I asked again politely, the two of them took one look at us shut the door and the engine off - Silence all night, not a peep.

So asking politely, being nice and appealing to use consideration  does work

Griff

[Viking23]

It's not just engines that are a pain, we were mud weighted on Barton Broad one warm evening, these two guys arrived after dark in what looked like a big day boat, canopy back,  lights on, no curtains at all, music on, they were playing cards and shouting expletives to each other. 

It spoilt our evening, sound travels over water, we could have moved, but why should we?

We had good satisfaction that the mozzies were biting, and were very hungry, they were too drunk to care, but I bet they had a few bites in the morning. 

[Bound2Please]

Ive sat here long enough about some of the things being moaned about ....Engine Running, Heaters, Fumes, Music, People having a good time on boats.  Next it will be the sound of Children playing on grass close to moorings.making to much noise. im not saying engine running at 23.30 but at reasonable times.

Get a life enjoy the broads and let others enjoy them in their own ways...  Life is to short and precious to keep moan moan moaning

Charlie

[Gracie]

Well said Charlie, a little bit of give and take and respect for other people, that's all it takes, as for Griff inviting a bunch of girlies on board, honestly, I hope the kisses, smiles and drinks was all he got, Mrs G will not be best pleased

Grace

p.s Sorry Pesky Mods, I've gone and done it again (the quote box thingy)

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by BroadScot
Removed for you Gracie.....again ! :-)

[JennyMorgan]

Lot to be said for consideration and good manners. Lot to be said for reasonable and tolerance too.

[donnygeoff]

Moored at the Bridge Inn Acle one year,

I started my engine at about 6:45

A bloke on a private boat behind, caught my eye as he was looking at me a bit funny.

Just as my wife said "how long before the water is hot enough for me to have a shower"

He said in a very loud voice "(expletive) you should not run your engine at this time, can you have some (expletive) respect you (expletive), your wife can have a shower later"

I casually got off of the boat, started to untie and politely said....

"If I could cruise down the river to catch the tide at Yarmouth without my engine running I would, and my wife is going to have a shower en-route, and by the way I was born in wedlock, how about you"

 

 

[Gracie]

Thank you Iain  I really don't know why it keeps happening, it couldn't possibly be anything I'm doing wrong because, as you know I am very technically minded and just know loads about computers 

Grace

[ranworthbreeze]

8 hours ago, Gracie said:

Thank you Iain  I really don't know why it keeps happening, it couldn't possibly be anything I'm doing wrong because, as you know I am very technically minded and just know loads about computers 

Grace

Hi Grace,

You do know that the screen should be towards you

Only kidding, you would be my first call for any advice on technical issues

Regards

Alan

[Chelsea14Ian]

As a boat owner  we are on the boat about once a month  and two weeks  in the summer,most of the time our batteries  are fine ,okay  we don't have any mod cons. So   if you hire  you should be okay.You just need to top up the hot water.If in doubt  speak to the company. MY advice forget all the mod  cons  and enjoy the broads

Happy boating  ian

[vanessan]

25 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

As a boat owner  we are on the boat about once a month  and two weeks  in the summer,most of the time our batteries  are fine ,okay  we don't have any mod cons. So   if you hire  you should be okay.You just need to top up the hot water.If in doubt  speak to the company. MY advice forget all the mod  cons  and enjoy the broads

Happy boating  ian

I think that's the problem, from what I gather the hire companies actually advise their clients to make sure they run the engine for at least 3 hours each day. It also seems that many of the older hire boat batteries are not quite up to scratch so don't hold the charge too well. As private boat owners, we know what the state of our engines and batteries is (well, hopefully we do!) but hirers of course have little idea and have to rely on the advice they are given.

[Viking23]

10 hours ago, donnygeoff said:

Moored at the Bridge Inn Acle one year,

I started my engine at about 6:45

A bloke on a private boat behind, caught my eye as he was looking at me a bit funny.

Just as my wife said "how long before the water is hot enough for me to have a shower"

He said in a very loud voice "(expletive) you should not run your engine at this time, can you have some (expletive) respect you (expletive), your wife can have a shower later"

I casually got off of the boat, started to untie and politely said....

"If I could cruise down the river to catch the tide at Yarmouth without my engine running I would, and my wife is going to have a shower en-route, and by the way I was born in wedlock, how about you"

 

 

When we know we have to catch the tide early in the morning, I always tell the people either side of us, the time and the fact that we start the engine untie and go, so we hope we don't disturb you too much.

They appreciate that, hear the engine, turn over knowing we will be gone in under a minute.

Never had any bad words ever, sometimes the crew on one of the boats wants to do the same and says, if we are not up by then, bang on the roof lol.

 

 

Now... Was that the boat in front, or the one behind ? lol

 

[JennyMorgan]

13 minutes ago, Viking23 said:

When we know we have to catch the tide early in the morning, I always tell the people either side of us, the time and the fact that we start the engine untie and go, so we hope we don't disturb you too much.

They appreciate that, hear the engine, turn over knowing we will be gone in under a minute.

Never had any bad words ever, sometimes the crew on one of the boats wants to do the same and says, if we are not up by then, bang on the roof lol.

 

 

Now... Was that the boat in front, or the one behind ? lol

 

A good example of both good manners and consideration, a pity that it is not a universal trait.

[Mowjo]

14 hours ago, Bound2Please said:

Ive sat here long enough about some of the things being moaned about ....Engine Running, Heaters, Fumes, Music, People having a good time on boats.  Next it will be the sound of Children playing on grass close to moorings.making to much noise. im not saying engine running at 23.30 but at reasonable times.

Get a life enjoy the broads and let others enjoy them in their own ways...  Life is to short and precious to keep moan moan moaning

Charlie

Only this weekend moored at Ranworth Island we had a rowdy bunch moored near us, they were Elysians so I think it may have been a little meet up, they were still at it around 10pm, luckily no engines running but they were a bit noisy and nearly fumed me out with all the BBQ's going! Oooh! hang on I just forgot, I was with them! I take it back, what a nice bunch of people, look as others have said, it's give and take and all part of life on the Broads, if you want total quite mudweight, because on 24hr moorings your never going to get it, personally I've made good friends with some of the offenders just by being polite, no one tells them times they can and cannot run the engine, and one answer I often had was no-one told us, your always going to get the odd A-hole whether they are hire or private, and that will never change!

[Wonderwall]

Until I joined this forum, I never realised that running your engine at a mooring was deemed by some as bad manners. If someone was to run there engine I just assumed they needed too. The noise  and smell of a Diesel engine on tick over was just part of the broads and not particularly offence unless it ran for a long time.

I tend not too need to do it as I don't stop in one place for long, but since joining this forum I would certainly only do it if it was very necessary. I just thought it was the done thing, and if someone had let on that it was causing them a bit bother then I would have stopped. I suppose most folk are the same.

people may not be aware for example that their fumes are invading someone else's boat. A polite word normally does the trick. 

Failing that, a crack in the jaw is quite effective . 

[BroadScot]

35 minutes ago, Wonderwall said:

Failing that, a crack in the jaw is quite effective . 

You can tell Neil supports Hibs !  

[Mowjo]

Thats my point! not everyone is aware, on hire boats they tell you to run the engine for four hours, no mention of what time or the fact it might P someone off, most of the ones I've come across are not charging battery's they are heating water, yards don't mention the best time to shower is while on the move and that in most cases doing that you'll arrive your mooring and still have a full tank of hot water, perhaps if the yards made hirers aware of this it wouldn't be such a problem for some, I've owned my own boats on the Broads for the last thirty odd years, and to be honest I'm sick of the amount of stick hirers get when it's not always their fault, without them the Broads would probably just be one big bird sanctury by now, and people forget most of us private owners started out as hirers, in my experiance and yes I'm normally out 150 days plus a year the worst offenders for most things have been private owners, so maybe it's time we cleaned our own door step first,,,

 

[Baitrunner]

Damn you Mowjo you caught me out!!!! Well I did it once and got shouted at so I shouted back to explain my situation - if they had asked it would have been dealt with in a much more civilised way and I am sure would not have been a problem.

We maybe have 20 people on the forum who object to it and another 9,980 boats owners/users who may not have an issue.  I can see it being a pain very late or very early, but it has never bothered me.  I try not to do it unless its necessary and then for a short period of time.

Example - In March we hired and on a cold morning with ice on the boat the batteries didn't have enough oomph for the diesel heater to work. So we fired her up to try and get some heat in us. OK so no other boats were around, but had they been, I would have done the same as it was gone past 8am. I like a bit of nature, but I also don't like to be freezing cold.

Still there are plenty of views on this and it does need a bit of common and a bit of give and take.

I would rather moan about people who cruise past at 6am flat out wobbling the boat all over the place or go past moorings flat out without slowing down.

If it did annoy me that much I would go somewhere there are less ignorant people about. Maybe the moon!