Times Up / Alphacraft Auction

[Mondeoman]

just sitting in Herbert woods boat yard feeling sad, waiting for tomorrow to hand over Rio light 1.Had a fantastic 10 days aboard weather could not have been better apart from Last Saturdays wind.I am going home with a few bumps on my head (head room is not good in this boat).A big hello to Alice and chameleon who I met in potter Heigham last tuesday (I think) or Wednesday. I can't wait to come back and we are thinking October half term.

[SwanR]

Sounds like you've had a great time and picked the right weeks for the good weather.

Headroom doesn't tend to be that good on any of the boats - that's just one of those things if you are tall and want a boating holiday. My hubby keeps a baseball cap on most of the time we are on board just for a little more protection!

I'm sure you'll be back on the Broads before you know it. October half term isn't too far away. 

[Mouldy]

When we finished our holiday last October (on Grande Girl 1) from Summercraft, we had a look around Grecian Girl, which is the same style of craft as Rio Light, with a view to hiring her this year,.  Even the wife, who is 5'3" had an issue with the headroom in the saloon, so we are back on Grande Girl again this year.  Not only  that, but if the weather is at all inclement and you have toi steer from the indoor helm, the visibility is dire.

[BroadScot]

6 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

When we finished our holiday last October (on Grande Girl 1) from Summercraft, we had a look around Grecian Girl, which is the same style of craft as Rio Light, with a view to hiring her this year,.  Even the wife, who is 5'3" had an issue with the headroom in the saloon, so we are back on Grande Girl again this year.  Not only  that, but if the weather is at all inclement and you have toi steer from the indoor helm, the visibility is dire.

Read somewhere on here the upper helm seat is not good for the back either ! 

Iain

[Broads01]

Glad you had a good holiday Mondeoman and I know that last night feeling very well.

I hired Grecian Girl in 2011 - yep headroom ain't great and helmsman's seat ain't either! I believe that Grecian and Rio Light (and Richardsons' Swan Rapide) were built by Alpha Craft. The boats have a lot going for them in terms of very low airdraft for a dual steer and a fair bit of saloon space, albeit with the headroom issue which worsens as you walk towards the front windows. The design does have issues though. On our trip we had a very wet day and I tried the interior steering - visibility was so poor I immediately felt unsafe and went back outside in the rain. The outdoor helm, apart from not being very comfortable, has an oddly low wheel in relation to the seat and also feels cut off from the rest of the boat. The cabins are all very much on the small side and are all on top of each other. There weren't very many built and I think I can understand why!

Having said all that I always see Grecian Girl out on hire whatever the time of year and I've no doubt the others hire well as well. The low level dual steer concept (more common with the Lowliner 38s and 44s as per Blue Horizon, Forth Bridge, Aqua Light) seems to have fallen out of fashion as far as new builds are concerned which is a shame.

 

 

[Mondeoman]

That was part of the reason for booking Rio light for the low airdraft in the hope of getting thru potter Heigham but was told on pick up that would not be happening,shame as I haven't been past there for a long time.We had a walk up past the bridges on the last night and couldnt believe the empty free moorings that side.Will it get to a point where no hire craft will be able to get thru i wonder?Another reason was at time of booking we were bringing our dog but fortunately he was able to stay with a family member for the duration which after spending 10 days on her I am grateful  he did because he would never got up those steep steps to the top helm if we had moored side on,which don't show up too well on the Herbert woods  website.

[MrBlueSky]

I,m sure that bridge gets lower every year

[VetChugger]

Those boats were the worst that Alpha ever built. That came from some of the yard staff/engineers! Its also the worst boat we have ever hired. I can think of no redeeming features at all.

[dnks34]

Most of the Alpha boats on the auction website do look a bit dire I agree but cant all be completely beyond help.  

I am very suprised that Vulcan, Spitfire and Mustang didnt get put back to use in another fleet, maybe that will come with the result of the auction.  

Knowing that Mustang got stuck under the railway bridge which so im told caused the roof supporting in the grp some serious harm, a private individual putting in a bid in on that one may be buying one hell of a wasps nest, to much of a risk for me. 

But Vulcan or Spitfire, are they really that bad given the relatively young age.  

They could be on their original engines which may be a concern, but aslong as there is no serious interior water damage, exterior grp damage, headling rips missing glass etc then flooring, woodwork new foams/upholstery isnt beyond the realm of possibility if they go for a good price.  

I was quite suprised to see the Auction fees are 20% buyers premium plus 20% VAT if im correct. Thats going to keep bids down in my opinion.  When buying my own ex hire direct from a yard there was no VAT on the purchase price and I was given a VAT paid certificate.  Why would an auction be different.  I thought the VAT only became an issue if you were planning to export. 

I would be interested to find out what sells and how much for. 

[dnks34]

So it may not be a case of bidding for a boat but a collection of bits in a boat shaped tub quite probably with many of the important bits you need missing! 

What money do you think Vulcan and Spitfire might go for Jonzo?  

[Broads01]

I'd forgotten about the steep steps to the top helm Mondeoman, I'd agree with that, narrow as well.

It seems I'm not alone in bemoaning the Alpha low level dual steers but I do think the fact they are low level is their redeeming feature. I know the chances of getting under Potter are minimal but on Grecian Girl we went under Beccles and Wroxham is certainly realistic. I agree hire yards may not want them although Richardsons did buy Swan Rapide which they're letting for a budget price. There are one or two around in private hands (ex Brink of Day if I recall) so they may sell.

Interested to read about the sorry state of the Alpha fleet.

[Happy]

  Hi Jonzo (Skipper).  Where can I find the auction website?  Thanks. Alan

[MauriceMynah]

9 hours ago, dnks34 said:

I was quite suprised to see the Auction fees are 20% buyers premium plus 20% VAT if im correct. Thats going to keep bids down in my opinion.  When buying my own ex hire direct from a yard there was no VAT on the purchase price and I was given a VAT paid certificate.  Why would an auction be different.

The 20% VAT is on the buyers premium, not the sale price, so if the boat sells at £10,000, there will be £2000 premium + £400 VAT. Price to pay £12,400.

I go to a lot of auctions and although 20% is a bit high, it's not way out. Given that they will also be charging a sellers premium, usually at the same rate, that £10,000 boat will make the auction house £4,800. It makes one wonder what they do to earn that money.

[MauriceMynah]

Sorry dnks34, I've just read the John Pye auction site and in this case you are correct, it seems VAT is payable on the craft as well as the premium!

[Happy]

1 hour ago, Jonzo said:

http://www.johnpye.co.uk/project/public-auction-by-tender-contents-of-a-boatyard/

Thanks for that. Looked at the site - they do look a bit sad, but who knows, may be worth a look, with VERY OPEN EYES!  Regards Alan

[dnks34]

It seems like a desperate method of selling assets in my opinion but I suppose thats what comes of having your assets seized.  

These auction houses especially those working with officialdom seem to be on an incredibly good screw for posting up a few photographs (which are rubbish in all honesty) and taking in the bids for a 20% fee per item the proceeds of those items being in payment toward liabilities, doesnt seem right to me but someone is allowing these vultures to take their extortionate cut of someone elses misfortune.

Jonzo I wouldnt have valued Vulcan or Spitfire at 30-40k myself, given what will likely need doing by any prospective purchaser and the risk of finding knackered mechanicals etc after purchase, I mean you cant even have a lift for an underwater inspection before commiting to a bid can you?  Ive not seen the boats lately but all things considered, the photographs shown, known accidents/mishaps, possible lack of ongoing maintenance due to recent company finances I wouldnt really want to be paying 20-23k for Vulcan or Spitfire including those extortionate fees and possibly as much as 7 or 8k for the likes of firefly and less for some of the others.  

I may well be way off but it seems to me most of these boats to a private buyer would end up being a massive liabilty, costing a fortune to get into any sort of state you might hope to sell on again in the future.  The existing hire yards on the other hand could bid with relative confidence on one or two of them maybe earning the purchase price and refurb costs back within 18 - 24months of being out on hire.

Ive think hijacked this thread enough now sorry to the OP! 

[BroadScot]

4 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Ive think hijacked this thread enough now sorry to the OP! 

Not at all, I think you have highlighted many of the possible/definate pitfalls that lay ahead.

Iain

[VetChugger]

I wonder if those photos are "as now"??? Out of the lot, both "Vulcan" and "Swift" are the only two that look anything like in reasonable order.

We hired the sister boat to "Vulcan" which I think was "Thunderbolt". Out of the two, "Vulcan" was the better fitted out and a few quid more to hire.

They were not bad boats at all, being of the "new look" but low enough to do all bridges bar Potter!

[dnks34]

Thunderbolt isnt listed for sale and neither is Hurricaine.  These were bought by another yard already? (Please correct me if im wrong)

If im right and that is the case I would think it more than likely they were cherry picked early on being in better condition possibly.   

Interestingly I found a boat review online for I think it was Spitfire (could have said mustang) which talked about a roof leaking (not good if its been left) and a tired interior so thats why Im thinking the two purchased early on must have been in better order. 

On the viewing day can each individual vessel be heard running, obviously those on land is a no, Jonzo mentioned a missing bow thruster imagine what else could be missing!  Im really not trying to put anyone off but I think I would need more than a few hours to inspect anything I may be interested in. 

There are many people that will buy things at auction to flip as a means of income but I think this lot might even be outside of their comfort zone.  

[BroadScot]

Two of the fleet went to Bridgecraft. Which two I cannot remember off hand.

Iain

[ranworthbreeze]

9 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Interestingly I found a boat review online for I think it was Spitfire (could have said mustang) which talked about a roof leaking (not good if its been left) and a tired interior so thats why Im thinking the two purchased early on must have been in better order

On the Auction site one of the pictures shown had a strategically place bowl on a table!

Regards

Alan

[VetChugger]

Hmmmm   Surprisingly I can read! I know "Thunderbolt" is not listed but "Vulcan" is and I was pointing out that, of the two, "Vulcan" had more bells and whistles and was more expensive to hire. If the photos are "as now" then "Vulcan", superficially, seems to be at least tidy!

[dnks34]

I think they do have hurricane but unsure if the other was thunderbolt Iain.

[dnks34]

Im not sure but I think the bowls might be filled with those moisture crystals Alan, they are dotted about in a few of the boats pictured.  

[ranworthbreeze]

1 minute ago, dnks34 said:

Im not sure but I think the bowls might be filled with those moisture crystals Alan, they are dotted about in a few of the boats pictured.  

Could be, but if so the auctioneers don't know how moisture traps work! Not such a good idea to have the crystals in the collected moisture.

Regards

Alan