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Toll Restructure For Broads


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A rational response in the EDP today:

This is posted elsewhere but I think it a well worded comment that many of us on NBN can relate to. I wonder if hire rates will be reduced accordingly for the coming season? My gut feeling is that the Nav Com has discredited itself once again. It has proven, yet again, that it doesn't honestly represent the general toll payer, rather it represents commercial interest.

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8 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

A rational response in the EDP today:

This is posted elsewhere but I think it a well worded comment that many of us on NBN can relate to. I wonder if hire rates will be reduced accordingly for the coming season? My gut feeling is that the Nav Com has discredited itself once again. It has proven, yet again, that it doesn't honestly represent the general toll payer, rather it represents commercial interest.

(MOD Hat now OFF)

I am blown away with the injustice of it all if that is factual, Peter. There is no way that anyone's salary or pension is going to keep up with that. Ours won't.

I really do wonder in which cuckoo land these people live................

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Broads National Pike seems to have got it right: "The real aim will be to pitch private boat owners against the hire boat industry and see what gives."

The cunning plan seems to be working brilliantly.

What are the Broads in general, and boaters in particular, whether private owners or hirers, getting in return for another inflation-topping increase in toll revenue? That is surely the real question.

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Mod hat off.

Here is the way that I see what we are getting for the well over inflation increase in the Toll Fees again next year.

Less spaces to moor, piecemeal maintenance of the rivers, information centers closed, inactive policing of the Broads (non toll payers still managing to get away with it), safety aspects such as Yarmouth Yacht Station being allowed to be closed, it should be manned all year, not ensuring that there is a solution for the waste disposal issues on the Broads and for allowing this stupid ruling to go on for well over two years.

What the Broads needs is an elected governing body and committees that are accountable, caring and effective, not the quango which is accountable to nobody and which seems to be in anyone's pocket.

Rant over

Regards

Alan

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So for my 15% toll increase, I am expecting 15% more moorings, more refusal disposal points etc etc. Ah but, a similar size hire boat's increase is only 2% so that must mean it will only be a 13% increase in moorings etc. Ooops, forgot someone's salary/bonus increase which will no doubt be loaded to reflect what a fantastic job he has done in shafting so many private boaters. Alan is quite right, this quango needs replacing with a proper accountable elected authority.

That's my rant over too!

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Rumour has it that Barnes Brinkcraft are purchasing the Royalls hire yard. Why would they want to expand at such times of hardship for the hire industry. Almost makes you weep. John Packman pleading poverty for the hire industry and bleating on about reducing their tolls compared to the private boater, whilst a hire yard sticks two fingers up in the air at John and expands their profitable growing empire. Turn round and bend over John, think you've just been royally shafted the same as the private boater.

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12 minutes ago, kfurbank said:

Rumour has it that Barnes Brinkcraft are purchasing the Royalls hire yard. Why would they want to expand at such times of hardship for the hire industry. Almost makes you weep. John Packman pleading poverty for the hire industry and bleating on about reducing their tolls compared to the private boater, whilst a hire yard sticks two fingers up in the air at John and expands their profitable growing empire. Turn round and bend over John, think you've just been royally shafted the same as the private boater.

I strongly suspect that if BB are buying Royalls yard, it's a case of buy it now or not at all. In that situation, if they're able to do so without actually bankrupting themselves in the process, then it's probably a sound business decision, even if they're not doing as well as they'd like at the moment. They are of course one of the big players in the Broads boating industry, so the pressures on them probably aren't as large as on some of the smaller businesses in the same market.

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hmm. Divide and conquer. Seems like the best strategy for the BA in this battle. Pit private against hire and wait until the dust settles and it will go quiet again. 

Let it not be believed that the hire boat industry consists purely of the big five. Yes, they have lots of boats and lots of money and a fair amount of power. However, they are not the only ones looking to survive in this market. 

I don't think that anyone is pleading absolute poverty for the Hire Industry and certainly not JP (however, I can assure that that I am not expecting to be paying off my mortgage or part exchanging my 14 year old car anytime soon). But the facts speak for themselves; the number of hire boats is decreasing. Rapidly. It would be a total moron who ignored this in their financial planning. For every 20 hire boats gone, that's £20k revenue lost working on their own average of £1K per boat. That's a wage or part of  legal bill for frivolous litigation.  The reduction of tolls for my business is unlikely to be great, but with my annual account to the BA being in excess of £10 for a fleet of just 12 vessels, a hundred quid off will not be significant, but every little helps. If I get battered for too much cash, instead of contributing £10k, I might contribute zero if I choose not to continue. 

The BA needs to know where it's funds are coming from and for everyone who bleats about the cost of tolls here, just take your boat to an EA river and see what you have to pay then. Moan all you want, but we all know that the grass is green on this side of the fence. We might not like the steaming piles of dung that get deposited in our grass and it may be greener elsewhere, but it's a lot more expensive too. 

 

 

 

 

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If I had my way hire boats would be free of tolls completely and the saving passed onto the hirers either in reduced charges or some free diesel so that they maybe get about more without worrying about fuel costs as much. Anything that stimulates the industry is good news in my book.

What we need is a hug a hire boat day!

:hardhat:

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In that case, JA, I rather suspect that Packman would ensure that us private boaters would pick up the tab. The hire yards rely on their boats being sold off at the end of their hire life and becoming private. Quite simply that is the system, upset that by hammering the private boats then the system will suffer, then so shall we.

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Ah but Peter, I haven't finished yet.

I thought we could leave the money saved by the lesser dredging policy in the account to buffer the shortfall and, just to make sure, the SOB will offer bird watching trips across Breydon thus reducing its burden on the purse.

See, now you know I'm losing it...

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16 hours ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

hmm. Divide and conquer. Seems like the best strategy for the BA in this battle. Pit private against hire and wait until the dust settles and it will go quiet again. 

Let it not be believed that the hire boat industry consists purely of the big five. Yes, they have lots of boats and lots of money and a fair amount of power. However, they are not the only ones looking to survive in this market. 

I don't think that anyone is pleading absolute poverty for the Hire Industry and certainly not JP (however, I can assure that that I am not expecting to be paying off my mortgage or part exchanging my 14 year old car anytime soon). But the facts speak for themselves; the number of hire boats is decreasing. Rapidly. It would be a total moron who ignored this in their financial planning. For every 20 hire boats gone, that's £20k revenue lost working on their own average of £1K per boat. That's a wage or part of  legal bill for frivolous litigation.  The reduction of tolls for my business is unlikely to be great, but with my annual account to the BA being in excess of £10 for a fleet of just 12 vessels, a hundred quid off will not be significant, but every little helps. If I get battered for too much cash, instead of contributing £10k, I might contribute zero if I choose not to continue. 

The BA needs to know where it's funds are coming from and for everyone who bleats about the cost of tolls here, just take your boat to an EA river and see what you have to pay then. Moan all you want, but we all know that the grass is green on this side of the fence. We might not like the steaming piles of dung that get deposited in our grass and it may be greener elsewhere, but it's a lot more expensive too. 

 

 

 

 

The EA toll on my local rivers may be more than The Broads, but is well and truly offset by the cost of fuel and time spent travelling to and from The Broads. It actually works out cheaper to have the boat more local and will give me more time to be able to spend on keeping her a bit more ship shape. The calculator has been out all weekend and phone calls made. At this stage it is looking like a done deal that the boat will be moving from The Broads next year. So rather than an increase of £68, there will be a decrease in toll revenue of £420 for next year. Wonder how many small boats need to be attracted to The Broads to make up that shortfall. Looking else where The Betsie Jane has gone South and I know of at least three other boats that won't be here next year.

Whilst I agree the smaller hire yards are never going to make their millions from hiring boats, the annual accounts publically available for the big five at Companies House make very interesting reading. Once the final few small yards disappear and the big five are the only ones left, I fear it will be them, rather than the BA running the area.

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Could I suggest that those of us taking a boat from the broads or opting to not launch next season because of the tolls please write to the BA and clearly tell them why.

We have already told each other what we think but we do need to tell them in power. Nothing will ever change if the hands doing the feeding don't bite back!

Make sure to copy to your MP and anyone else relevant as well.

 

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We know about the tolls increases through the forums, EDP and various other local outlets. But I wonder how many toll payers won't find out until the toll demands land on their doormat next March? There will be a few more disgruntled punters then methinks.

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Hi

To save me rewriting my thoughts and action I'm considering, here are those thoughts posted elsewhere:-
 

"I'm not suggesting withholding the whole of my tolls, just the excessive part.  

I might even pay this years plus the percentage charge increase to the hire boat of equivalent size just to be fair, if it comes to more!  

If they then chase me for it then when in court I'm pretty sure the press would have a field day with the extortionate percentage increase BA are trying to rob us by just to line the pockets of a few rich hire boat companies. It just can not be justified with inflation running at such a low level. 

They don't chase those that have not paid their tolls at all for years! But guess they will chase us normally law abiding toll payers. But the BA has got to be stopped this time! BA has constantly been charging way above inflation toll increases saying it's a one off but enough is enough and just to boost the profits of the hire boat companies at our expense is not on! The hire companies are the ones building big boats using more and more precious mooring spaces charge them not us average sized boaters. 

I agreed the other option I to remove the boat to other waters and yes that would cost more in tolls but you would get more waters to cruise for your money. 

A few years ago a nice hire boater did say that the hireyard told them not to worry about upsetting the private boater as the hire companies didn't want private boaters on their waters! Looks like they are getting BA do that job now! "

Now I know that posting from one forum to another is frowned upon, but I'd only type the above in response to this thread. If that's considered wrong please feel free to delete this post and accept my apologies.

John.

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I don't think the hire yards would have to try very hard to show that they were the ones supplying craft to those not rich enough to own their own boats, that the private craft can cost as much as a quarter of a million pounds and that if it weren't for them, the broads would become just another 'fat cat's playground' .

How do you think the majority of this countries population would support boat owners paying less than the full amount due to that 'peoples organisation' the BA.?

That is not how WE see the situation, but that is how the BA would present it if it were to go to court.

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For the last two years I have been ripped off by higher than inflation increases, on my 23' narrow beam cruiser, and recently we made the decision to to remove our boat from the Broads, and then I found out that I could be Saving £10 next season....

I don't care, at least they won't be getting anything from me next season.

It's the lack and closure of moorings and no waste disposal bins that have really touched a nerve with me, I guess the promotion of double mooring a few years ago was a subtle start of the cutbacks. 

It was just over 6 years ago when we brought our boat to the broads things were so different then, there was more depth over the whole of Hickling, Horsey mere, and Turkey broad, we could cruise anywhere we wanted, not now, weed was not a major issue anywhere, and there was no fly tipping.

We are now off to pastures new, but we will be back on the Broads as a hirer, and use the reciprocal mooring and dumping arrangements that are exclusive to hire craft, if all the hirecraft did that, there would be more mooring for private craft and less overflowing public bins. 

Rant over. lol

 

 

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It's at times like this I am grateful to be in a syndicate. Yes it's totally different to owning 100% of a boat and is more akin to hiring but Thunder's toll has gone up about £110 but split 12.5 way works out at £8.80 for each owner.

 

down south this year the loss of alphacraft and Swancraft was noticable around Brundall, particularly as we go in the school holidays. We were able to moor at all the "popular" spots. Great in the short term but if the north/south divide continues and private boats (which are on the ascendancy down South) do start to move to new waters I fear for business that relay on the boaters.

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Afraid that those who called for the persecution of the so called gin palaces are about to feel the results of their success.

Our toll would have been £700 this year, about average for a 40'+ seagoing boat. I know personally to at least 10 boats not on the Broads this year, fairly sure that is just the tip of the iceberg and the suitable boat brigade are shortly going to be digging deep in their pockets to make up the huge hole in the toll pot left by the boats they so wanted to get rid of.

Fortunately it is very easy to move a seagoing boat, Yarmouth or Lowestoft give access to lots of places with no toll to pay at all. 

 

 

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Senator, as we all know Yarmouth is pretty hostile towards any sort of non commercial craft so many members of the Brundall Navy rely on Mutford Lock & Lowestoft. We must remember that traditionally Norwich has long been a port, the river open to sea-going craft. Indeed Mutford Lock was built to provide not just access to the sea but also to Norwich. For whatever reason the Gin Palaces have largely deserted Oulton Broad over the last year or two, is it the cost of mooring I wonder? Anyway, that aside Somerleyton Bridge is at best unreliable, one nail in the coffin. Mooring at Oulton Broad, whilst compared to marina charges is cheap, it is still a financial burden on visitors, nail number two. Being able to moor at Beccles by the bridge, no guarantee of finding mooring space there, nail number three. Indeed being able to find short stay moorings for big boats on the Broads has become increasingly difficult, nail number four. Some of the traditional Broads sailing boats face toll hikes of up to fifty percent so Gin Palaces are not exclusive in that grouse. However none of that would be the final nail for me should I be the proud owner of a GP. What would be the kill for me is the proposed hike to the Mutford Lock charges. A weekend trip to sea would include a gallon or three of fuel, mooring fee at Oulton Broad and now seventy five quid for a return trip through the Lock, that would be the coup de grace for me. Despite having my own free mooring at Oulton Broad even I'm tempted to moor in one of the Lake Lothing moorings or marinas. 

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