I Saw This Report In The Edp And Thought Of Other Scooter Users

[ranworthbreeze]

I saw this report in the EDP and thought of other scooter users including our own Broadscot.

It this ruling just in Norwich or does it have implications in the rest of Norfolk and other cities nationwide?

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/mobility_scooter_user_stranded_in_norwich_after_being_told_she_needed_a_permit_to_board_bus_home_1_4749572

Regards

Alan

 

[kfurbank]

Seems like it is a national thing. Once you have been accessed by a bus company who is a member of the CPT scheme you should be issued with a permit which should be accepted by other bus companies who are members of the scheme.

It is certainly buried away in the small print of the terms and conditions for Konnectbus and First Group busses who serve my local area.

More generic info on the scheme can be found here 

[ranworthbreeze]

Thank you Keith for your reply and information link.

Regards

Alan

[BroadScot]

Interesting Alan, I keep my mobility scooter in bits in my car. However, I did make enquiries to Caledonian Travel to see if they would allow me to take mine on a coach holiday to Berlin. The reply was, certainly,no problem at all! 

So it may be a regional thing but I find the Norwich handling of it, disgusting.

Iain

[TheQ]

I wonder how you get to where they do the assessments without using the bus?

[Wildfuzz]

I may appear a little thick (no comments please) but how do you access a bus when riding one?

Is it a short wheelie and bunny hop or does the bus have ramps etc.? The few times I use a bus they seem very narrow aisles to........

[BroadScot]

There are mobility buses Stuart, that come to your door and can accomodate that type of scooter without any hassle. Up here its called Dial a Bus run by STRATHCLYDE PASSENGER TRANSPORT. Never used it, but would if I had too.

Iain

[kfurbank]

Wildfuzz, I believe that's why the scooters are designed to categories etc, so that busses can also be built with this in mind. Local busses around my way have air suspension and can lower the front corner and have a ramp that comes out from under the floor near the door for loading.

[BroadScot]

My own model I think about the same length of a modern pram, and they allow prams on buses !

Iain

[kfurbank]

Broadscot, with all due respect that may be a little harsh. Seems like Konnectbus are part of the CPT scheme which lots of bus companies are part off. I have nearly been run over a few times in the supermarket and local shopping centre by people on scooters. Not everyone handles them appropriately or with confidence. The space is very limited for turning on a bus and I would suspect a scooter would need to be in the same area as buggies, children and the easy access seats for the walking elderly. Not hard to see why bus companies may require someone to demonstrate a certain level of competence.

The big issue in London is that the busses can only carry so many prams, wheelchairs and scooters. Who has the biggest right to travel? There have been issues where an able bodied person with a pram has been asked to leave a bus to make way for a wheel chair user. Must be a nightmare for the drivers at times trying to play peace keeper amongst the various customers when all he wants to do is drive and try and keep on schedule.

[BroadScot]

Keith, they only allow one pram and a wheelchair on certain buses up here. That is why I mentioned the Dial a Bus it is designed  for both wheeled items. Drivers do gave a difficult task,agreed, but she was allowed in but not allowed to return, which must have been upsetting .Her scooter looks similarto my model the 4mph one that can turn on a sixpence.

Iain

[kfurbank]

It seems the main problem was that she wasn't aware of the need for a permit, or the CPT scheme. The driver was only doing his job, but has been made out to be the baddy by the EDP. The real questions should be why was she allowed to board the first bus on the way in without a permit? Is the driver training inconsistent? Why isn't the scheme more widely publicised? Surely the mobility shops who sell the scooters should make their customer aware of the scheme? It appears from the EDP article, this woman was given the scooter by her daughter who was outraged as she never has trouble getting around London, yet from the RICA site I linked to earlier on TFL also take part of the CPT scheme as well as running their own Mobility Aid Recognition Scheme.

From your description, I would assume your scooter is a class 2.

 

[BroadScot]

Yes it is as far as I know a class 2.  I bought mine online and saved over £500.00. Most of the mobility shops the prices are eyewatering. I tried several in those shops till I found what I wished to purchase, then bought online.

Iain

[ranworthbreeze]

Sadly there are bus drivers and bus drivers.

It is not a job I would like especially late at night.

We have no doubt come across a number of drivers that are not suitable with dealing with the pubic. In any service job dealing with the public there is always issues that can be handled in a pleasant and suitable manor.

In the story the driver mentioned that a suitable bus had been contacted.

Regards

Alan

 

[Wildfuzz]

I regularly see an older gentleman on a scooter running along the A149 between Sutton and Stalham, there are many back roads that he could access but insists on using the Stalham By Pass. I can see why sometimes they are given a negative press, its like cars I guess some good drivers and a few who are "less" good.

 

On an aside, when working in Clacton many years ago there was an elderly Nun who was living in a retirement home, she would fly along the lower prom with her habit trailing behind her in a bright red scooter, her walking stick held in front like a knights lance, She was known as "the Flying Nun" many times she was reported for poking pedestrians out of her path, she had a fair turn of speed to. Lol.

[BroadScot]

A final word on these scooters. Most are made in the USA, so although I have never been there I can only assume like everything else there, the buses are BIG and can easily accomodate the scooter.  Same with their "freeways"

Thanks Stuart, I must get a lance made for mine !

Iain

[ranworthbreeze]

My Granddad had one but never used it because he couldn't handle it, he bought it off of a chap across the road, it spent time in the hallway until it was sold, back then some of the scooters were very large.

Stuart regarding the nun and the stick, I think this was one of the elderly traits that we have yet to reach. My Nan used to prod slugs with her stick, frogs were not safe nor anyone else for that matter, other than that she had a heart of gold and is sadly missed, she was just short of being 100 when she died.

Regards

Alan

[BroadScot]

Just had an idea, put a pointy thingy on the end of my walking stick !  Chargeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!

Iain

[Arthur]

Must make some enquiries about this.

I work for a bus company although I no longer drive buses.

This is the first i have heard about permits to board the bus with a mobility scooter.

In my opinion some of the giant size prams/pushchairs these days are more of a hazard.

Most of our vehicles are low floor and have wheelchair ramps available.

There is also designated space for  wheel chair user.

 

 

[kfurbank]

The following is taken from the conditions of carriage on the Konnectbus website and is very similar to First's conditions.

There is an interesting condition which I bet not many know about, that states that if the bus is not suitable and on a route with an infrequent service they will make alternative arrangements, including arranging for a taxi where appropriate.

From 1st August 2014 we will accept class 2 mobility scooters that are no longer than 1000mm in length, 600mm in width and have a turning circle of 1200mm. Anyone wishing to use buses (konectbus and anglianbus) must have their mobility scooter assessed and approved by a konectbus manager. The assessment will include measuring the scooter to check it meets the maximum dimensions, along with on-bus training on how to manoeuvre it in a controlled and safe manner. Once approved a confirmation permit with accompanying letter will be issued to the user, these must be retained and shown to the driver as a permit to travel.

[BroadScot]

Regarding the turning, I can turn mine without having to reverse in a standard shoping aisle. I must check Stagecoach out and see what their rules are. They really are very clever pieces of kit regards turning.

In truth it does not effect me, as mine is always in the boot of my car ready for use.

Iain

[BroadScot]

What Stagecoach say.....

Stagecoach has adopted the Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT) Code of Practice for the use and acceptance of mobility scooters on low-floor buses. The Code sets out standardised procedures, as well as clear information regarding the types of mobility scooters that can be accommodated on buses, to help operators ensure that mobility scooters are able to safely use their services.

The Code provides for approved mobility scooter users to be issued with a permit for travel that will allow the bus driver to recognise that the mobility scooter has been approved by the operator and the user has been trained in how to safely board and alight from the bus.

[BroadScot]

So Stagecoach are not meaning the owner but the model of scooter for the permit, the way I read it.

Iain

[kfurbank]

I could be wrong, but I read the last paragraph as the "user" of approved scooters being issued with permits. The last sentence states that the scooter has been approved, AND the user has been trained. I think the permit would confirm both. Certainly the Konnectbus terms make it clear that both an approved scooter and on bus training to the user must be given to get the permit. I think the permit once issued by one bus company would be recognised by other bus companies even if training hadn't been given to the user by that particular bus company, partly because the busses also have to comply to a standard therefore designed to accommodate a class 2 scooter.

[BroadScot]

The law as it stands ..... https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/accessible-buses-and-coaches/bus-and-coach-accessibility-and-the-public-service-vehicle-accessibility-regulations-2000