Winterising

[Vaughan]

15 hours ago, Regulo said:

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I don't know the wattage of your two heaters but I hope the frost stat is strong enough to have their power going straight through it.

If it were me I would prefer to wire it as a relay, controlling a switch on a second circuit, protected by a trip, especially if this is going to be in the bilges.

[Regulo]

Hi, Vaughan,

Stat is rated at 13 amps, plenty enough for two 60 Watt tubes. Which take about ⅔ of an Amp.

 

[JanetAnne]

No shore power on our new mooring meant we removed the redundant tube heater during the refit.

Some family members have been most grateful of it over the winter months...

 

[Regulo]

Hmmm, chicken and chips for lunch, I think.

[MauriceMynah]

WOW! Chickens in the bilges, I've only got water and a tiny bit of Diesel.

[grendel]

Actually I was thinking wow 7 eggs.

[StillCruising]

Hi. Richard (Viking23)has made the point that internally boats out of the water get colder thane those in the water. I believe this to be true, in both 2009 & 2010 I left a data logger running in the boat over the winter, both of these winters were severe with the Ant and Broadsedge marina freezing up for some time. For the winter of 2009 the data logger was left on the dining table i.e. above the water level and in 2010 it was left sitting on one of the engine mountings i.e. below water level. As you can see the cabin temperature dropped below zero several times but the engine only once. Of course to be definitive both areas needed to be recorded at the same time but I believe that the results do highlight the potential differences that are possible.

Regards

Bob

 

Temp Scans Winters 2009 & 2010.doc

[Jim]

16 hours ago, tjg1677 said:

Check this out, argos, eighty watts and thermostatic....thirty quid.

http://www.argos.co.uk/product/3956625

Thanks tjg, ordered this morning and delivered this afternoon!  It will be fitted in place of the old tube heater asap.  Hope it will save a few quid but if it does switch in a bit early, no worries!

[tjg1677]

7 hours ago, Jim said:

Thanks tjg, ordered this morning and delivered this afternoon!  It will be fitted in place of the old tube heater asap.  Hope it will save a few quid but if it does switch in a bit early, no worries!

you are most welcome sir

trev

[LondonRascal]

When you consider matters we have not had a super harsh winter for some time - but that is not to say they won't pop up and surprise us where even a week of persistently below freezing temperature could cause a whole heap of problems for boat owners that have not taken the appropriate steps.

I personally have no issue about using a tube type heater - they are unlikely to be affected by moisture themselves being sealed units and are pretty 'dumb' in their operation - no fancy circuits and so on. However the problem as some have sighted is either an actual issue of marina power tripping, or the fear it may trip.

Now if you were away your power had tripped off - you would at least then be able to make a trip to the boat in good time to see what had happened - was it local to your boat, the Marina or the wider local area type thing - something that could tell you is a product that will text you when it senses power has been lost.

 

Here is the link to one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00CALOXLY 

So, if you are going down this route and worry about if the power is on - the above may be something worth investing in.

[JennyMorgan]

So often I see folk winterise their boats, leaving them hermetically sealed and then leave them to fend for themselves. Come spring many folk expect their boats to be just as they left them. It.doesn't always happen like that.  A few personal checks won't go amiss during the winter, if only as an excuse to visit your favourite watering hole. P.S. I am at Oulton Broad if anyone gets worried about a boat there.

[tjg1677]

Hello all,

Went down last weekend to winterise giddy kipper and just in time too, the temp on fri night in horning briefly droppe,d to minus one and the quay heading be came very icy.

This is what i did in the end:

Two x forty watt thermostatic tube heaters fwd and  aft in the engine room. For info calculated that on full 24 hour cycle they will cost about 12 quid per month to run. Calorifier and water pump also in engine room, so hopefully protected too.

Water system drained down, shower trays and pumps flushed through with antifreeze , ditto the jabsco toilets, all bedding and cushions sealed in vacuum bags, engine oil changed, all doors left open, all cupboards and drawers  left open, all hopper windows left on night latch allowing ventilation and a  crystal type de humidifier left in every cabin, the galley and two in the saloon.

Am hoping that does the trick and that we get a very early spring or at least have a  mild winter to get some post Christmas boating in. Thanks again to everyone for their advice and input, much appreciated.

Trev

 

[MauriceMynah]

I've just winterised Nyx. I took all the red wine off and took the white out of the fridge.

[Wildfuzz]

On ‎06‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 10:16 PM, JennyMorgan said:

So often I see folk winterise their boats, leaving them hermetically sealed and then leave them to fend for themselves. Come spring many folk expect their boats to be just as they left them. It.doesn't always happen like that.  A few personal checks won't go amiss during the winter, if only as an excuse to visit your favourite watering hole. P.S. I am at Oulton Broad if anyone gets worried about a boat there.

How about a buddy system, those of us near to marinas could be approached to check another members boat if they are too far away for an ad hock visit. Would obviously be up to the boat owners to decide if they trust the person nearby to check their pride and joy, but it may save expensive damage or a long trip to Norfolk / Suffolk.

 

S.

[JanetAnne]

A basic check would consist of can you still see the water line and is the meter still in credit!

Joking apart, have just had to arrange a rapid lift out of a woodie. Checked it on Monday to find that it has sprung a leak and, whilst the bilge pump was coping at the minute, the inevitable would happen if we didn't act now.

Our best guess is that she sustained damage when she sat on the bottom during Saturday's super low tide but the leak is under the water tank (of course) so out she will come.

The point is that had I checked her last Friday she would have sunk by the time I was next there so yes, Mr Wildfuzz has a very good point.

[tjg1677]

16 hours ago, Wildfuzz said:

How about a buddy system, those of us near to marinas could be approached to check another members boat if they are too far away for an ad hock visit. Would obviously be up to the boat owners to decide if they trust the person nearby to check their pride and joy, but it may save expensive damage or a long trip to Norfolk / Suffolk.

 

S.

A great idea is that.....

[Viking23]

The thought of leaving your boat on a mooring for months on end, especially in the winter, is quite worrying. We were close to 4 hours away from the boat, and a quick return trip in a day is well beyond us now.

A friend of ours regularly kept us updated on our boat, we were moored at Broadsedge in the new section, and he walked over from the other side just to check our boat, now you can't get better than that. It was a visual inspection, no steamed up windows, no canopy leaks etc and the antifoul foul still be seen lol. He even took a brush get the snow off the canopy. We will always be grateful to him.

Our heart was always in our mouth when we put in a two monthly visit, had the Windows leaked, are the cushions dry, did the dehumidifier crystals hold up?

Last winter, due to illness was a very difficult time, the boat had to go 3 months at one point, we planned to go, but hospital appointments for treatment, put paid to that.

So this is one of the reasons we moved the boat to Oxford near our daughter. We have been there three weeks, and we visit the boat every week now, mostly to do those jobs you could never get around to.

We have shore power, and I have fitted a galvanic isolator and on first measurement, there was  150 mV dc difference across the galvanic isolator earths, without the galvanic isolator, my anode on my outboard would soon be gone. I also checked for earth leakage both ac and dc when the fridge was connected, and when the battery chargers were connected, all seem fine.

So for those on permanent shore power, do you have a galvanic isolator? If not, your anodes could be protecting all the boats in the area that share your common earth. 

 

If there was a caretaker type person, local to the marina, then they could have a set of keys, have a checklist, to check shore power, wet cushions,  bilge water, battery status, etc. You could have a weekly or fort nightly check, now what would that be worth?

You would need permission from the marina, but is this a task that they could offer, what happens if something was missed, and damage was sustained, who is liable?  

Mind you, in one marina we were in, the marina operator did very little, some boats had ripped canopies and water was getting in, they may have informed the owner, and maybe the owner ignored the warning... But my guess was they didn't care. Boats were so badly moored that some were scraping their gel coat against the jetty, no attempt to adjust the mooring lines of inform the owner. The marina had to move our boat once, and when we got there the outboard was bashing the jetty, no attempt to refit our springer. 

So you would have to trust someone to do this for you, if it was the marina, then it could be any member of staff, better for a private boat owner that regularly visits his own boat, and has the same values as you.

Richard

[Hylander]

I think most folk are like us when we had our own boat.      When we were at Broadsedge an hour away , we always emptied boats that had filled with water, saw to canopies that had come adrift and generally kept an eye for any problems.    We would have appreciated anyone doing the same for us.    As you say when you move nearer which we did 10 mins away it was easier to just pop down to the boat and check.

It must be a concern at times when your boat is such a long way from home, but I am sure that most people are good people and will always help.

[Viking23]

On 6 November 2016 at 9:25 PM, LondonRascal said:

When you consider matters we have not had a super harsh winter for some time - but that is not to say they won't pop up and surprise us where even a week of persistently below freezing temperature could cause a whole heap of problems for boat owners that have not taken the appropriate steps.

I personally have no issue about using a tube type heater - they are unlikely to be affected by moisture themselves being sealed units and are pretty 'dumb' in their operation - no fancy circuits and so on. However the problem as some have sighted is either an actual issue of marina power tripping, or the fear it may trip.

 

 

Now if you were away your power had tripped off - you would at least then be able to make a trip to the boat in good time to see what had happened - was it local to your boat, the Marina or the wider local area type thing - something that could tell you is a product that will text you when it senses power has been lost.

 

 

Here is the link to one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00CALOXLY 

So, if you are going down this route and worry about if the power is on - the above may be something worth investing in.

I bought a similar one off eBay, to the one Robin suggested.

Another toy to play with lol....

Now I need a cheap SIM card.

Must be 2g, must have cheap texts, 5p or less, non contract, and an unlimited time to use the credit. A PAYG sim, standard size.

I don't want to pay £10 a month to get "free texts" lol.

I found one with unlimited time, cheap texts, but 4g only. There must be a 2g option.

Can anyone recommend one? 

Best regards,

Richard

[ExUserGone]

Go with giffgaff, 5p texts and free giffgaff to giffgaff calls, it's the o2 network and my phone is set to 2g most of the time and works fine around norfolk.

[grendel]

I am with o2 and I get free texts, but dont 'have' to top up each month, once the free month expires I pay for my texts - sometimes I dont top up for several months just to use up my credit, as long as I am in credit I dont have to top up. (other than the £6 a month they deduct because its a blackberry.

[Viking23]

Thanks Leo, just went onto the Giff Gaff website, ordered a free SIM card, at least that will get me going, unless I find a cheaper one.

Also being O2, we get good reception at our mooring on the Thames with our Tesco mobile, also O2

Many thanks.

Richard.

PS Still open to suggestions for cheaper options lol...

 

 

[Vaughan]

I can't imagine how I managed to successfully organise the winterising of several hundred hire boats, in several different bases, over  the years, before Giff Gaff came along.

If your pipework doesn't have water in it, because you have drained it, then nothing is going to be damaged, no matter how many degrees of frost. This principle is "fail safe". 

The use of a potentially unreliable night heater dependant on marina shore power doesn't sound like it, to me.

 

[tjg1677]

15 hours ago, Viking23 said:

Thanks Leo, just went onto the Giff Gaff website, ordered a free SIM card, at least that will get me going, unless I find a cheaper one.

Also being O2, we get good reception at our mooring on the Thames with our Tesco mobile, also O2

Many thanks.

Richard.

PS Still open to suggestions for cheaper options lol...

 

 

Are you thinking of using this to remotely monitor the boat Richard?

If so, please please do tell us how you get on with it.

Thanks

Trev

[Viking23]

3 hours ago, tjg1677 said:

Are you thinking of using this to remotely monitor the boat Richard?

If so, please please do tell us how you get on with it.

Thanks

Trev

Hi Trev, yes that was the initial idea, it's the first time we have electric hook up, 

I just like toys lol, I have installed Internet controlled units on our home central heating, so if in bed, I can put heating or hot water on and off, and if away, we can put the heating on when we are a couple of hours from home. If we get a cold snap whilst away, we can put the heating on for an hour or so.  Did this for around £50 plus a couple of relays etc. We had considered a "Hive" system, but read that they can go into confusion, and set the house temperature to 30+ C for weeks on end if you are away, not saving much gas there are they?  Hive, when they replied to my email, assured me that was now sorted.

However, with Internet switching, even say with hive, if the server fails, there is no guarantee that the heating is either on or off as requested. So we had a spare dvr channel on our security cameras, so one is aimed at my controller, and with some frustrating interfacing, I managed to link the system via Ethernet to the Internet, so we can see what our heating is actually doing.

I will try the GSM controlled unit on the boat, monitor temperature, power loss etc, switch on a heater, either by it's own timer, or thermostat, or remote control, but if the heating control at home goes pear shaped, then this controller comes home with us lol, as it sends an sms text once a request has been accepted. 

Now in the 25 years we have had our boat, we have never had shore power, but we have had 3 freeze ups of the Paloma Water heater, just one thimble full of water in the wrong place, causes extensive damage.

We also had a diaphragm pump crack open due to an egg cup full of water, the pump comes home with us for winter now.

We have always used water absorption crystals, but now we have considered an electric dehumidifier but there are advantages and disadvantages to each technology.

Compressor type, don't like very cold temperatures, have been known to overheat.

The desiccant type, don't like loss of power during the auto drying cycle, so no use for remote control, or for use on a time switch. They do warm the air, as such can be quite expensive to run. I am sure I could design a circuit so the power was only shut off during the resting cycle. 

The electronic type, have been known to be the cause of several fires.

So overall the jury is out on this, but if we do fit a dehumidifier, it must be auto start in the event of power loss, and the GSM controller can send a text if the shore power is lost.

Not sure if I will get annoyed when every time we go for a cruise I get a text of power loss, then another when we hook up again to say power restored, I just hope I can disable this when on the boat. At 5p an sms text, no big deal, but ...

So, is the fitting of this kit in our boat, essential, desired, non essential or mainly another toy to play with? 

Time will tell lol.

Best regards, 

Richard,       Now on the Thames at Oxford.