Special Ensigns

[Springsong]

Bring the ensign in at sunset ?

[Polly]

Certainly

[TheQ]

The marine act of 1995 I posted earlier makes no distinction between inland and offshore Flags.

So unless you are entitled to something else, it would be a Red ensign at the stern and your NBN on your port yard arm as a house flag or possibly at the mast head as a burgee. Flags of course should only be worn during the hours of daylight.

[JennyMorgan]

The Broads is an estuary of the open sea so Q's comment is absolutely right.

A visit to Holland's waterways is always a pleasure for me. The Dutch have a colourful flag culture and apparent pride in their ensigns, regretfully missing in Britain despite the fact that we regard ourselves as a maritime nation.

[JennyMorgan]

Although an American publication this information reads well. It includes the comment that abiding by flag etiquette can add to the fun of boating, a comment with which I agree. I also think that pride in one's boat is also a relevant factor. A smart. well dressed boat, like a smart well dressed woman is eye candy!

http://www.sbccsail.org/Documents/Burgee.pdf

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

Another one to mention is the Black Ensign.

This is often found on large twin engined cruisers on the Upper Thames or in Mediterranean marinas.

This consists of the Blue Ensign, defaced with diesel exhaust.

I've seen more than a few black ensigns that started off as reds. Not on cruisers but on merchant vessels. A British thing?

[johnm]

"more a question wondering if there is etiquette or legislation concerning inland cruising"

The etiquette for a UK registered vessel is to wear the Red unless you are in possession of a Royal Warrant allowing you to wear a defaced ensign of either the red or blue variety or, for a very privileged few, a white.

The legal position is slightly different and I will come from the other end so to speak. The ensign that a vessel displays denotes her nationality and on the high seas (International Waters) is used to demonstrate this to the representatives of any nation and effectively preventing a country's representatives from boarding or impeding her passage without agreement from the vessel's national government. This should be the case even if a vessel is obviously 'up to no good' in the eyes of an observer that is not from her "flag state" - this is why International Peace Keeping or Border Patrol groups tend to have ships from all participating nations or at least representatives in the group as it makes life easier! No ensign = no proof of registry so reasonable excuse to board!

Within the Territorial Waters of a country (i.e. the coast/baseline out to a declared and agreed limit - usually 12nm but sometimes less) similar rules apply but the Nation State that "owns" the waters has more powers to stop and search any vessel as long as they can prove wrong-doing. (For the sake of clarity, we will ignore International Straits such as Dover cos that gets complicated!). No ensign = no proof of registry so reasonable excuse to board!

Within the Internal Waters of a country (i.e. from the coast/baseline inland) the national laws of the country apply and it really doesn't matter what flag your are wearing as the law enforcement forces of that country can conduct operations as normal against any resident or visitor within the law. The only exception to this are any vessels representing a Nation State in the diplomatic sense but they are only allowed to enter a country's Territorial or Inland Waters with prior diplomatic approval - effectively, this means visiting warships. That said, not wearing your national ensign and sitting in a foreign port displaying a non-legal flag as an ensign just gives any enforcement officer an excuse to get on your case as I have frequently pointed out (during the course of work not just because I am a busybody ) to dipsticks on UK registered vessels displaying an EU flag in place of an ensign in various ports around the world 

TBH around the Broads it really doesn't matter too much apart from the satisfaction to be had from 'getting it right'!

I presume that Hockham Admiral is either a member of the RAFSA or the RAFYC and also flies the association/club burgee.

I am also fairly sure that should Griff join the RNSA and if he registers BA on the SSR (I think she would be big enough to count), he could apply for a warrant for the Blue Ensign - this would be personal to him and could only be displayed when he is 'in command', others of the BA family who are ex-RN would need to apply for their own warrant to be able to fly the Blue (not sure of the detailed rules for vessels in multiple ownership). Any BA skipper who is not ex-RN should wear the Red which would have the added benefit  of getting rid of that daft white flowery bed sheet they keep hanging out to dry!

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, johnm said:

I presume that Hockham Admiral is either a member of the RAFSA or the RAFYC and also flies the association/club burgee.

I am also fairly sure that should Griff join the RNSA and if he registers BA on the SSR (I think she would be big enough to count), he could apply for a warrant for the Blue Ensign - this would be personal to him and could only be displayed when he is 'in command', others of the BA family who are ex-RN would need to apply for their own warrant to be able to fly the Blue (not sure of the detailed rules for vessels in multiple ownership). Any BA skipper who is not ex-RN should wear the Red which would have the added benefit  of getting rid of that daft white flowery bed sheet they keep hanging out to dry!

That is a perfect summing up, thank you, and totally correct. As I was trying to say earlier, whether or not you get sunk, depends entirely on what colours you hoist!

I have already noted that the Admiral flies the club burgee at the same time as he wears the ensign.

Just a practical point to add :

A large number of ex hire boats - maybe including BA - were British Registered when they were built, in order to obtain a marine mortgage to finance them. I believe Jack Powles were one of the yards that often did this. The registered number and tonnage has to be carved into the main deck beam or, in the case of a GRP boat, in some main part of the structure, perhaps the transom post or even the engine beds. Have a good look round and you may find it.

In this case, the only thing you need to do is to prove ownership back to the date of building, by producing bills of sale, and you can re-register in your own name. It is then a matter of applying, through your yacht club, for an Admiralty Warrant to wear the appropriate ensign. 

In Griff's case, he could apply by joining the RNSA but he may also be eligible to join the RNVRSC, which also has a warrant to wear the un-defaced blue ensign. It would set BA off rather nicely, wouldn't it? 

Incidentally, if you have "chartered" a British Registered vessel, and hold a warrant, you may wear your ensign on the boat, but if you are simply a guest on board, you may not.

[SteveO]

Oops! I seem to have stumbled upon a strange parallel dimension.  I fly my Red Ensign because it, and the socket it sits in, were on the boat when I bought it. I always thought that boating was an escape from day-to-day bullsh*t. I'll get my coat.

Steve

[JennyMorgan]

Steve, every one of us has two choices, either that we do or we don't, simple as that. Doing doesn't make it bullshit. No law saying that we have to, no law saying that we can't, it's our choice. Go back to that picture of the Royal Yacht, dressed overall she looks absolutely splendid, surely you agree. 

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, SteveO said:

I fly my Red Ensign because it, and the socket it sits in, were on the boat when I bought it.

In which case I hope this thread will have helped you to appreciate the long tradition that goes before it, and will give more meaning for you, when you fly the flag.

[johnm]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

In Griff's case, he ... may also be eligible to join the RNVRSC

 Well he was a communicator and they might as well be Volunteer Reserves! 

[BroadAmbition]

A communicator primarily yes, but a few t'other disciplines too thrown into the mix.  I rather like Robins version, otherwise it means formerly applying, paperwork, no doubt fee's to pay just to end up where we are right now.  And besides I would then probably see another Blue Ensign being flown, then get irked not knowing if the skipper onboard had applied / been given a warrant or not.  We do have a Blue Ensign and have already flown it.  The Gods Country ensign sits rather well with me too for obvious reasons.  Three of the four owners of 'B.A' are Tykes, plus that is where she was saved / restored.  We have also flown a Jolly Roger too although we are not a submarine returning from a patrol with a confirmed kill

Griff

[TheQ]

While checking on some facts for this debate, I found  a blog by a man who he thought was being disrespected by others on his mooring due to the vast value of others boats.

So He registered his boat with the SSR, found a very cheap Yacht club with a Blue Ensign, and joined that.

Applied for and got permission to fly the Blue ensign

 

 

 

 

 

 

On his Narrow boat....