Another One Bites The Dust

[Oddfellow]

http://www.cityboats.co.uk/

Statement on the home page effectively tells of more boat hire being removed from the Broads with the possibility of Waveney River Tours operating the day boats and/or trip boats, but holiday cruisers are gone. 

In the last few years we have lost: Alpha Craft, Swan Craft, now Horizon and City Boats. We are soon to lose Royals also at the end of next season.

Whilst Horizon will bounce back in a different form under different ownership with fewer boats, this trend is undoubtedly inevitable.  

 

 

 

 

[SwanR]

Sad to see another operator closing down. I had seen their day boats around but hadn't realised that they were doing anything else from Thorpe. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

As Andy sad very sorry to see more boats go

[marshman]

And yet every private owner says the multiplier is too low and why should  the private owners subsidise the hire yards even more? Other threads elsewhere suggest that the bigger hire yards are making too much money!! Clearly that does not apply to everyone as this illustrates. Yet another bites the dust - sadly.

Begs the question then why the Broads multiplier is as high as it is and yet on other waterways ( some I  have checked ) it is lower?

Do we want, or need, a hire boat industry? I think its crucial but others may say differently particularly if they think only of their own tolls?

[jeffbroadslover]

If those privateers were to have it all to themselves how many other businesses would go to the wall without the income from the thousands of visitors spending their hard earned cash in the area?

The knock-on effect to all those who supply the boatyards , shops , cafes etc would be felt far and wide

Jeff

[Labrador]

4 minutes ago, jeffbroadslover said:

If those privateers were to have it all to themselves how many other businesses would go to the wall without the income from the thousands of visitors spending their hard earned cash in the area?

The knock-on effect to all those who supply the boatyards , shops , cafes etc would be felt far and wide

Jeff

Quite, hire boats have people using them for at least 16+ weeks a year and spending money. How many private boats are used that amount, not very many. The majority I would say do not come anywhere near this and a large number 3weeks or less, if at all.

[JawsOrca]

Didn't city boats only have 3 cruisers? IMHO they've not been strong at marketing their offerings so no surprise really... surprised they carried on as long as they did.. Good luck to all involved though. 

MM - I agree as I've said before the broads needs the hirefleet to keep it affordable for all. Not sure of the background to city boats going but it may be down to other reasons other than the multiplier. 

[rightsaidfred]

Andy

I am sure you are as aware as anyone that several of City Boats craft were leased to DRL before that disappeared so they havn`t been a major player for a long while, it also seems to be an ignored fact that most of the larger operators get a substantial income from Private owners through their marina moorings helping to subsidise the hire fleet side of their operation, plenty of private owners especially those amongst the higher toll paying sector keep local businesses of all descriptions going 12 months of the year.

Fred

[Labrador]

10 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

, plenty of private owners especially those amongst the higher toll paying sector keep local businesses of all descriptions going 12 months of the year.

Fred

Sorry Fred, why and how do higher toll paying owners keep keep all these businesses going 12months a year? 

[NorfolkNog]

I think what Fred means is that private owners are more likely to be about November to March (as well as the rest of the year) while virtually all hire yards only hire for about 8 months of the year. Not every one fortunately................

[MBA Marine]

The money brought in directly from the weeks that a hire boat is on hire is a drop in the ocean, the hire companies have staff all year around, these staff spend money with other local businesses, the yard buys more consumable items as it freshens up their fleet over winter so more money is spent with local suppliers, the ripple effect is far greater than the pubs, eateries and gift shops.

[kfurbank]

I shall be arriving at the boat on Thursday evening till Sunday evening. During that time I shall be cruising up The Yare stopping at The Waters Edge one night and possibly Thorpe another night. Saturday will be spent in Norwich doing Christmas shopping. Being from Essex I could be going to Lakeside or Blue Water and staying at home. Instead shops in Norwich and some hostelries on the upper Yare will benefit. I wonder how many hardy hire boaters we will see on this trip.  Sadly it is planned to be the last Christmas shopping trip by boat for some time as Thanks to The BA, the boat will be off to other waters next year. So they won't be seeing an increase, but a net decrease of £500 in the toll account next year, unless someone else brings a 35ft boat back to replace her.

[marshman]

Just out of interest, I wonder where you are taking your 35' next year - I looked and could not find anywhere cheaper except the Medway? 

[rightsaidfred]

Yes as NorfolkNog realised I was referring to owners who used their boats all year round and in general the larger ones are the ones most comfortable and suited to winter cruising especially for several days at a time.

Fred

[ExSurveyor]

Hi Kfurbank,  I have a friday to Tuesday weekend as well,  with Christmas shopping in Norwich.  We will be hitting the shops by train from BGM. 

The River Medway is slightly cheaper,  with free tender,  but only 17 miles of inland river with too many locks. 

I am seriously considering selling the Calypso on the Medway because of lack of use,  I would rather travel to Norfolk even for a long weekend. 

[JennyMorgan]

13 minutes ago, marshman said:

Just out of interest, I wonder where you are taking your 35' next year - I looked and could not find anywhere cheaper except the Medway? 

If that 35' is seaworthy then Lowestoft Harbour & the North Sea is a great deal cheaper.

I do know three local boaters, personal friends, who have their own private Broads moorings, yet have moved down to Levington Marina near Ipswich. Seemingly nothing will tempt them back to the Broads, despite having Broadside houses & moorings.

[rightsaidfred]

Marshman

Its not always the cheapest that gives best value for money, the Thames for instance although somewhat dearer than the Broads offers far greater value for money, not only does it have far superior facilities and more varied scenery it also gives access to many other waterways, while the Broads are unique in their own way which is why we love them they are not the be all and end all of the boating world.

Fred

[rightsaidfred]

MBA

How many of those staff are seasonable and laid off during the winter months, while they still need engineering staff who incidentally do maintenance work on Private Boats as well they lay of most if not all of their cleaners etc. I for one do not undervalue the hire boats its how most of us started and are an integral part of the Broads but they are no longer the major part of the boating industry they once were.

Fred

[JennyMorgan]

Marsh, next time you take Albion through Mutford Lock and across Oulton Broad hang against the North Shore & count how many houses have boats moored alongside. Most don't, their boats are elsewhere, such as the RNSYC marina. As you cross the Broad count the mooring buoys and count just how many have boats moored to them, the majority are vacant. When the locals desert the Broads then the BA should be asking questions.

[JanetAnne]

4 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Marsh, next time you take Albion through Mutford Lock and across Oulton Broad hang against the North Shore & count how many houses have boats moored alongside. Most don't, their boats are elsewhere, such as the RNSYC marina. As you cross the Broad count the mooring buoys and count just how many have boats moored to them, the majority are vacant. When the locals desert the Broads then the BA should be asking questions.

There used to be a waiting list for those buoys...

[JennyMorgan]

1 minute ago, JanetAnne said:

There used to be a waiting list for those buoys...

Several years long too.

[kfurbank]

1 hour ago, marshman said:

Just out of interest, I wonder where you are taking your 35' next year - I looked and could not find anywhere cheaper except the Medway? 

Given the opportunities that The Thames offers and how much closer to home it is, then the price of the toll is only one consideration. Saving over £400 in fuel per year and travel time, in addition to having more moorings and facilities etc is actually very attractive. JP played a very dangerous game when he started comparing JUST the toll cost of having a boat on The Broads. Boating is about a lot more than just the toll. Having the pi$$ ripped out of you by a bunch of self satisfying unaccountable public servants takes the biscuit. My boat may be leaving The Broads for now, but I shall still be on The BAs case. The next thorny subject to tackle is their negligent attitude to insurance.

[Polly]

You and Tim will be missed.

[kfurbank]

Thanks Polly, don't worry I'll still be around the forums and Norfolk from time to time. Me and The BA now have unfinished business. For instance, when asked what the cost of pursuing a case through court for non payment of toll, I got the response, "A monthly sum is charged by the third party supplier for all legal work, including tolls prosecutions; it is not possible to give a precise figure as to the charge to the Authority of each individual case."

This is despite JP putting his name to a report which was Agenda Item No 10 of the Navigation committee meeting 23rd October 2014. In particular, the middle section of para. 4.1 Quote “In addition the apportionment of Legal budgets has been adjusted to reflect the latest actual split of activity (legal costs are always apportioned in line with actual use).”

When challenged there was some back tracking, without actually giving the figures I was after. Apparently they are able to split the costs between the correct accounts, (so therefore must know the costs) but are still unable to provide me with those costs. So now we have to take their rather conflicting communication for it, that the navigation account only gets charged the correct split for navigation legal work. More delving and FOI requests will be forthcoming. I shall at least get my monies worth out of this year's toll  I suspect the BA know the true cost and could divulge it, but would rather hide it Quote (I cannot say more about this as it would breach commercial confidence about the arrangement, but we do consider the arrangement attractive.) as I'm sure it is substantially more than they get awarded by the court in each case.

[JennyMorgan]

Keith, re those costs, they are apportioned as is seen fit. A lot can hide behind apportionment.