Hickling Broad

[MauriceMynah]

By this time I would imagine that GinBottle is now wondering what weird sort of a group she's joined. Well worry not! You'll soon get used to us.... well ok, Regulo (Ray), Timbo (Tim) and I (John) take a bit more getting used to, but we've been idiots and clots for far too long to change now.

Ray's boat is too big to get under Potter Heigham bridge, so can't get to the Pleasure Boat. Timbo's boat is out of the water, hiding in the Martham boatyard and mine is moored at the Pleasure Boat, so I'm usually too drunk to move it. (not that that's ever stopped me)

Back to the posts... Simples.... Keep one colour one side the other colour the other and keep away from the yellow sticks. They're not posts, they're sticks denoting water so shallow even the swans can stand up.

There's a bunch of these yellow sticks in Hickling that I normally tell any visitors I have, are the result of a dinghy racing incident on the broad and that they painted the masts yellow as a tourist attraction. Somebody once actually believed me too. 

 

[ExMemberBobdog]

3 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Just in case you ever take a boat on a river in France, watch out, as the French, being French, do it the other way round! They work out their buoyage by "going with the flow" of the current down the river (which is why it is called a "fleuve"). This is also why, in Paris, the area to the south of the Seine is called the Rive Gauche, or left bank. To us, it would be the right bank!

Luckily for us, they also paint the buoys in opposite colours so that, for them, a red buoy is a right hand mark but for us, it is still a left hand mark. 

There is nothing quite like the French. . . . .

No, no, no.  You are making the common mistake of mixing up left/right and port/starboard.  Green to starboard, red to port, (if heading upstream) as channel markers is an international system and is exactly the same in France as it is here.  It has to be so, because the system is intended to allow safe passage for ships of any nationality when entering foreign waters.  There would be chaos otherwise (if each country had a different system).

When describing left and right banks however, the convention here and in France and elsewhere is to speak of the 'true' left bank as being on the left as you head downstream.

[Regulo]

I put my idiocy down to my mum. Not hereditary, but she was so intent on nattering to her friend, she walked my pram into a lamp post. The pram not being equipped with any safety gear, the 3-month old infant Regulo slid up the pram and bounced his head off the bit that was now firmly against the post. Mum was more concerned about the dent in her Silver Queen pram, than the dent in my bonce. I've not been right since.

[ranworthbreeze]

38 minutes ago, Regulo said:

I put my idiocy down to my mum. Not hereditary, but she was so intent on nattering to her friend, she walked my pram into a lamp post. The pram not being equipped with any safety gear, the 3-month old infant Regulo slid up the pram and bounced his head off the bit that was now firmly against the post. Mum was more concerned about the dent in her Silver Queen pram, than the dent in my bonce. I've not been right since.

I take it that you are talking back in the day when most prams were coach built, the wheels off these were great for making trolleys (one step up from a book on a roller skate).

Regards

Alan

[grendel]

53 minutes ago, Regulo said:

 I've not been right since.

Ah that explains it you have been left all this time.

[LondonRascal]

Regular readers will know about my wish that the Broads Authority  would do an audit of all their signage, posts and floating markers etc and then come up with a new, simple and unified system.

The Broads is not a large commercial waterway so it would be far more helpful to have easy to understand signs (which confirm to a single style and typeface) and easy to follow channel marking.

One way to do this is to have all the posts a single colour but have a white cap (or band at the top) which makes them stand out more than a single colour wiould. It is why at railways stations for example, whatever the colour the operating company has adopted, all posts will have a white band (or two) to aid them standing out.

Once you've sorted the colour of the posts, have a sign on the 'channel side' of them saying 'keep this side' thus, regardless of direction you may travel in you know where the channel is and what side to navigate on - even where you have posts that seem obvious enough to many on what side to be on such as the lower Bure indicating shallow water near the bank,  yet every year people go inside the post and go aground.

[grendel]

Regulo,

In my case my mum fell down the front steps of the house 2 weeks before I was due, a good thing too as I was 9 lbs 2 weeks early and came out black and blue, by the time I was due I had tipped the scales at North of 12lb. Since that time I have received considerable cracks on the noggin, including a pair of scissors point first thrown by my sister, the corner of a school stage block that I landed on, a full tilt run around the corner of the house to head butt the corner of the brick coal bunker, and a cricket ball that I managed to hit and could not see where it had gone until it came down on top of my head, there have been instances in my adult life too, a van windscreen that broke and was held together by the sun visor- this resulted in bits of glass working their way out of my forehead for the next 6 months. 

And yes before anyone comes back with it, all of this has knocked a little sense into my head

[ExMemberBobdog]

1 hour ago, LondonRascal said:

Regular readers will know about my wish that the Broads Authority  would do an audit of all their signage, posts and floating markers etc and then come up with a new, simple and unified system.

The Broads is not a large commercial waterway so it would be far more helpful to have easy to understand signs (which confirm to a single style and typeface) and easy to follow channel marking.

One way to do this is to have all the posts a single colour but have a white cap (or band at the top) which makes them stand out more than a single colour wiould. It is why at railways stations for example, whatever the colour the operating company has adopted, all posts will have a white band (or two) to aid them standing out.

Once you've sorted the colour of the posts, have a sign on the 'channel side' of them saying 'keep this side' thus, regardless of direction you may travel in you know where the channel is and what side to navigate on - even where you have posts that seem obvious enough to many on what side to be on such as the lower Bure indicating shallow water near the bank,  yet every year people go inside the post and go aground.

But the BA do not have authority to do this.  Buoyage is agreed by international convention, and the UK authority responsible for buoyage is Trinity House.  The BA may install channel markers etc, but they are required to conform to the rules.  In fact the BA have been in trouble with TH because they should not have those white 'missile heads' on the Breydon posts, nor the white caps (designed to stop the cormorant poo from being too obvious) on the Hickling posts, because these do not conform to regulations.

What you're suggesting is akin to suggesting that Norfolk County Council should do away with the nationally recognised system of road signs, and come up with their own - bonkers!

Navigation signage is not difficult, you just have to be prepared to put in a tiny bit of effort to learn it, just as you learned road signage from the Highway Code to safely drive a car.

[wombat nee blownup]

Hells teeth Bobdog, As has been stated earlier the broads are no longer commercial waterways but more recreational.

If I take a weeks holiday in some foreign clime then see a go kart track, say to my mate "should we do a few laps for a laugh?" then find out we have to sit the national road driving test first, if we're lucky passed  through an intensive six week course we can have ten minutes round the track?  What's the problem with adding to the already internationally recognised signage with "keep to the right  or slow you down"?........ That's just my opinion though I expect

[Broads01]

I accept that the BA may not have authority to change the system but that doesnt make it the right system. Yes OK you can learn the rules but it would be so much better to have a system that's clearer and unambiguous.  I want to look at a single post and know instantly which side to pass,  not have to work out whether I'm going upstream or downstream and remember a mnemonic. 

[ExMemberBobdog]

The system IS clear and unambiguous, and at 5mph there's plenty of time to look at a map if necessary, have a little think, and make the right decision!

[thingamybob]

4 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Don't such boats have radar, GPS, depth sounders, shallow water alarms, chart plotters et al so what chance do mere novices in more basic boats have?

Possibly p188ed when going aground? You should have seen the wobbly trench it ploughed in the mud!

Most places where the bottom is too near the top are marked with yellow or red sticks on Hickling  Basically if you can get under PH bridge you have no trouble in going a bit off course on Hickling except for picking up a bit of weed in the Summer and early Autumn months.

Don't worry ginbottle, just go and have lots of fun especially if you like the wildlife and nature of the area. Go in the Spring and you will be treated to the call of the Bittern across the reedbeds, barn owls and a myriad of wild waterfowl, butterflies and dragonflies.  if you can get in on the staithe you are assured of some excellent beers and food at the Pleasure Boat pub.

Enjoy.

[wombat nee blownup]

That's why so many people fall foul of the system. I can picture the newly hired crew, cruising down the Bure on their way to Norwich, turn out onto the Yare and see the bridge with the markers the other side.  Tide going out they decide to "take five minutes" to read the map they may or may not have to hand then Bobs your uncle (not your dog) they end up in the North sea 

[thingamybob]

8 minutes ago, wombat nee blownup said:

That's why so many people fall foul of the system. I can picture the newly hired crew, cruising down the Bure on their way to Norwich, turn out onto the Yare and see the bridge with the markers the other side.  Tide going out they decide to "take five minutes" to read the map they may or may not have to hand then Bobs your uncle (not your dog) they end up in the North sea 

That's why I always tell new hirers that I meet to read the manual supplied with the boat before even reaching Acle or Reedham or Somerleyton depending whichever way they are going.

[Timbo]

My idiocy is due to Mum falling whilst dancing on a table on board a destroyer in Singapore Harbour on New Years Eve. I was born the following day and ever since nations of the world celebrate the advent of World Timbo Day with fireworks, booze and marital arguments about 'wot our Sandra/Mavis/Ethel said about our Enid/Gertrude/Doris' after three babychams and a Blue Wicked.

Part of the joy of the Broads is that it's like...well, real boating. You can invent and implement a whole new signage system and some muppet will ignore it, not understand it or somehow fall foul of it no matter how simple it is. At the end of the day we are British. Install a large red button with a sign which reads 'Do NOT press this button' and in the end the button will be pressed, the channel markers ignored and the Broads Authority will write something about a National Park on the new signage.

 

 

[johnb]

There is no apparent reason nor do I have any excuse for the way I am........after 66 years I have come to this conclusion.

[deebee29]

7 hours ago, thingamybob said:

AARGH! Its all gone pear shaped.

Removed the duplicate post 

[16E]

Now you've set me off.

Channel marking, lateral marks, are the responsibility of the local harbour/navigation authority.  In the case of the Broads that is The Broads Authority, who choose to use red (port) and green (starboard) markers, usually poles.

other authorities such as ABP for the Humber plus some of the Ouse and tTent have their own methods of channel marking, such as the little 'ships' on the Humber.  it all depends on the bylaws for that authority.  Trinity House arre responsible for English sea marks.

The Broads scheme matches the colours used at sea in most of the world.  The system is known as IALA A.  When entering a harbour or river from the sea the system uses red for port-hand and green for starboard-hand, which BA also replicates. The agreed international system also allocates shapes to lateral markers, however most lateral markers on the Broads are coloured poles, BA's choice.  The red or green floating marks used by BA are the same shape as IALA marks.

I did once go up the Beaulieu River to Buckler's Hard and the lateral markers were big twigs called 'withies'.

I've never been on a French River, but the navigation authority can set their own rules, as described earlier.

When you get to the Americas, Japan Phillipines it gets it gets more fun as they use the IALA B system which has green port-hand and red starboard-hand lateral markers.  Red Right Returning.  It took me years to convince an American of the difference.

[Broads01]

I accept its an international system but it's still a poor one.  If I'm navigating,  novice or not, I shouldn't have to consult a manual or a map to work out where the safe channel is. 

Here's the posts used on the Erne navigation in Northern Ireland.  It's instantly obvious which side of the posts you should pass. 

[thingamybob]

4 hours ago, deebee29 said:

Removed the duplicate post 

Thanks shipmate. Brain (when I found it) was not in connection with my thumbs.

[MauriceMynah]

14 hours ago, Timbo said:

My idiocy is due to Mum falling whilst dancing on a table on board a destroyer in Singapore Harbour on New Years Eve.

Could have happened to anyone my dear friend. Don't keep beating yourself up about it.

[Timbo]

25 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Could have happened to anyone my dear friend. Don't keep beating yourself up about it.

Orrr...but I got this ere stick wiv a bladder and bells on it that I borrowed from Ray just for the job!

[Regulo]

14 minutes ago, Timbo said:

Orrr...but I got this ere stick wiv a bladder and bells on it that I borrowed from Ray just for the job!

I wondered where that went! Can I have it back? I'm due some ritual flagellation, just to keep my hand in. I prefer the winter for this activity, not too many people in the market square to witness it.

[JennyMorgan]

11 hours ago, Broads01 said:

I accept its an international system but it's still a poor one.  If I'm navigating,  novice or not, I shouldn't have to consult a manual or a map to work out where the safe channel is. 

Here's the posts used on the Erne navigation in Northern Ireland.  It's instantly obvious which side of the posts you should pass. 

'I shouldn't have to consult a manual or a map to work out where the safe channel is.'

Why not? Have you never consulted your High Way Code or a road map?  

[Broads01]

39 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

'I shouldn't have to consult a manual or a map to work out where the safe channel is.'

Why not? Have you never consulted your High Way Code or a road map?  

Yes,  but the clearest,  most useful signs on the road are the ones so obvious you don't need the Highway Code to look them up.