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RickWhiteHorse

Mooring At Thurne Dyke - Thoughts?

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I would be quite happy to pay for the pleasure of using an up and running pub with a decent bloke as a landlord and at one of our favourite mooring locations, anything between five and ten quid is reasonable for that pleasure, I reckon

Grace

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There is also the willingness to pay a bit extra to actually get a mooring when you need one of course. Arriving at 6pm and nowhere to go is getting worse on the Broads,  so if you can't get in at Thurne, then where else is there? 

Mud weight in South Walsham, could be the only banker that's less than an hour away.

Womack, unlikely, maybe Herbert Woods basin, St Bennets could be tight.

Mud weight on Ranworth, too far if late. Acle, too far, but maybe a good chance.

£7.50 -£10 seems ok if say £5 is refundable vs a bill of £20 + 

To me, your fees sound reasonable for a good business, and after all, we need you to be there year after year. Good luck with the venture. 

Richard

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1 hour ago, Viking23 said:

For all boat moorings, I feel sorry for the couple in a 20' boat who pay the full whack as a 44 footer with twice the beam, take up half the space, and can only spend enough for two meals.

Then people insist you close the gap... I paid for up to 44 ' so I can have a minimum gap of 12' front and back. lol

If it's a Broads Authority (free) mooring, then I have paid the toll pro rata on length, so I don't feel grieved.

A 20ft boat and a 44ft both have equal rights of access to shore and use of facilities hence the same fees are correctly charged .

if you drive a Smart car your kerb side pay and display parking costs the same as a Range Rover .

i too would feel sorry for a couple in a 20 footer, but only because they couldn't get their preferred mooring due to another 20ft boat refusing to close the gap so not only spoiling a couples evening but also depriving local businesses of income 

 

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What a fascinating thread this is turning out to be. It is not uncommon to read 'outrage' when we hear of greedy land owners charging for moorings with the poor old Cator family receiving the flack. Now a businessman has put his side of the story and I find myself swamped in reasonable replies.

For my part I'd say £5 or £10 is reasonable and perhaps you might try "Honesty boxes". Just to bounce a couple of thoughts, how about £7.50 in the honesty box or £5 if paid across the bar as a customer. Perhaps you could split the fee to £5 from 10:00 to 16:00 and £5 from 16:00 to 10:00. 

It is my suspicion that those who would try avoid paying will still do so, those who will pay...   ...will pay! 

Above all, remember to keep it as simple as possible.

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The days of free privately owned moorings are over. The cost of maintaining/repairing a quay heading can easily wipe out a good proportion of the profits of a business. Also for a Broads riverside location, there's not a lot of mooring income for 8 months. So I can see Rick's point of view, as well as an occasional visitor. Many of us will pay car parking fees on a daily basis, but for some reason baulk at paying mooring fees a couple of times a year - strange.

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Just another thought. £2 per mooring post used or blocked, per payable period or part thereof. Shared posts £1 per boat sharing. Dinghy's free. Fee payable +50% in British summertime if paid in the honesty box, but -50% out of season discount (GMT) or free if paid over the bar as a customer. (GMT only). Finally, Double on Christmas day.

Anyway, as I said before, all will be fine as long as you keep it simple. :)

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Ok here is my two peneth  worth ........£5 charge payable at the bar......sticker issued to put in window........will cut down on manpower of collecting the toll as you would only need to do one walk around to chase up non payers or displayer's at dusk /dark......... inevitably those  paying the fee  at the bat will purchase a drink..... simples....(maybe):default_biggrin:

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Ok, as a newbie to posting on this forum (2nd post) but not to the broads as I've been holidaying up here for the past 10 years, I hope I'm not going to put my foot in it!

My personal view is that mooring outside a pub, and certainly if maintained by them should be used by boats that are actually spending money in the pub

We have breakfast on the boat, then lunch and dine in a pub, this in our holiday and that's what 'floats our boat' sorry for the pun

I have found it frustrating at times to not be able to moor and spend money in an establishment due to people sitting on their boats outside a pub eating their own food and drinking their own beer or wine, I appreciate that may well have been in that pub or going to it later

That's why I always hire a dinghy in case I'm left like Running Bear (showing my age) and stuck on the other side of the river!

Although, it’s not been used in 'anger' on too many occasions, just a bit of insurance, a bit like taking an umbrella to ensure it doesn't rain!

So for me, pubs should charge a significant fee, redeemable against food to ensure that the boats on their moorings are patronising their pubs

I'd be happy to pay £10 and maybe half of it redeemable!

Just my opinion not my intention to offend!

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I'm inclined towards "Tims" thoughts.

Perhaps add £5 to your intended fee redeemable against purchases made in the pub.

 

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I don't think anyone has mentioned it thus far, but is the farmer who owns the other side being a bit opportunistic here? Suggesting he may let that bank as long term moorings to provoke Rickh into doing a deal for the moorings to save what are much needed moorings for the pub. The farmer gains as he only has to receive one cheque per year, compared to collecting daily or annual fees and all the rest of the hassle belongs to Rickh. However examine that a little closer. We all know how windy it gets down that dyke and if I'm honest I avoid mooring there on either side due to the real chance of being hit by another boat arriving or departing. Who would want to take an annual mooring there, and if they did, it would have to be bloody cheap. Then there's the other basin that is being dug out within spitting distance. If your keen for an annual mooring in that location, you would choose a basin off the river, than along that dyke every time. Again to chose that dyke there would have to be a significant financial advantage. I might be inclined to call his bluff, or at the very least point out the many shortcomings of the location as an annual mooring with the hope that any annual lease was priced accordingly. I'm guessing there will be water and possibly electric in the new basin once opened.

Some on here have compared the proposed price of the mooring with others where there are no facilities, such as Salhouse. It is the lack of facilities that means the owner has to make money from the land as they are not making money from a supporting business. A pub should be making it's money from the moorings over the bar, not directly from the mooring. I don't know of any pubs that charge you to park a car in the car park. What makes this a slightly unusual situation is that The Lion benefits from half it's boating customers being able to use land that doesn't belong to the pub. Now those customers have to pay to moor on the farmers side and if Rickh doesn't charge on his side then the farmers side would be the last to fill up and the reduced income will force him to seek an alternative arrangement.

Maybe the better idea would be to agree a common mooring price with the farmer that is charged on both sides, say £4 per night, with the mooring fees collected by Rick's staff. Two different receipt books could be used and then the money from the farmers side is given to him and Rick keeps the money from his side non refundable over the bar, otherwise the moment you make one side effectively free by refunding money you create more of a demand for that side at the expense of the farmer. The farmer wins by not having to go and collect. Rick wins by getting a modest fee from his side and by co-operating with the farmer and collecting the fees on his behalf retains the moorings for use by his customers. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours kind of thing.

£4 seems a reasonable fee to pay whether you use the pub or not, if it helps to keep both sides fully open.

 

 

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I would happly £10 if I got £10 of beer and food tokens in return. No brainer, so far in my expirence the food and beer, especially the ciders are excellent!

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At the end of the day we're in a capitalist society! Rick and the Farmer have something that is worth money to people who want to use it. Our society would dictate they try and make as much money as possible. Lucky for us boaters making money involves providing food drink and a good service with somewhere nice to enjoy it!

Crack on i say!

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Whatever the solution its got to be better to keep it as simple as possible!

A few hair brain schemes have been suggested on this thread that seem far to complex!

I agree with Tims comments totally, why should anyone expect to moor outside a pub then eat their own food and take potential revenue away from that establishment.  

The only thing I would say about Thurne Dyke is there are quite a lot of moorings available there if using both sides so it will pay to implement a well thought out and simple system serving both sorts of customer.  

Where is this new basin being dug out then I havent heard anything about it. 

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Just to put all these things in perspective, I was chatting to a guy who had just came back from Majorca - well almost as he was sailing around it in a 45' charter boat.

His most expensive overnight stop was 130 euros and his cheapest was 30 euros - at least he said the showers were hot and free!!

And MM - who ever said the Cators were poor? Or was that not what you meant? All I can say about that is I am delighted to have seen not one boat on the Percis Island mooring this year - he would have been quids in leasing it to the BA. Shame!!

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Good points by Keith. I believe the previous arrangement was exactly as Keith described, ie a mutually agreed flat charge of 4 quid both sides. 

I hadn't really thought about it, I must admit, but yes the farmer could be on to a good thing, particularly if he doesn't have the hassle of knocking on boats and collecting the fees. The benefits of being a riparian owner! 

BTW is the new basin referred to, the one at Oby, not Thurne Dyke itself????

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Howard,

The basin I'm referring to is the new one being dug next to the dyke off the River Bure where the closed moorings are that are now having the piling removed. Is that Oby Farm? I'm not actually sure if it will be a basin, or a second dyke and they have yet to break through to the main river?, but I would guess 30 odd new moorings with facilities which would reduce the attractiveness of being an annual moorer in a dyke where you would need around 50 fenders down the side of your boat. I know where I would be heading.  

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The new dyke is open. They have gone through to the old dyke not the river. 

We take our boat to The Lion for the evening and don't stay the night so selfishly, while I'd happily pay a fiver, more would make it a pricy trip. 

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I haven't been to that pub for a number of years and reasons too! But......

If you have someone coming round to collect the fees then you want

it as quick and easy to do as possible? Yes?

Trying to find enough 50p's to cater for all those overnight moorings

won't be easy and it will be time consuming too. Handing over a crisp £5

covers that with ease.

"Thankyou kind sir?madam, here's your ticket. Enjoy your stay"

I would pay that provided I got a ticket to display in the window.

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Bob dog,

Ramblers in Thurne has been offering newspapers and milk for some years. Now they have a range of groceries including bacon butter bread cheese and other basic items including tea bags and coffee.

Ramblers also has a great range of paintings by various artists, local produce, and gifts.

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6 minutes ago, Yarmouthbloater said:

Bob dog,

Ramblers in Thurne has been offering newspapers and milk for some years. Now they have a range of groceries including bacon butter bread cheese and other basic items including tea bags and coffee.

Ramblers also has a great range of paintings by various artists, local produce, and gifts.

Ah, probably not a good idea to upset the neighbours then :default_icon_kiss:

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Whatever charge you settle on, it has to be the same both sides as has previously been suggested because otherwise you'll cause confusion and frustration amongst punters, not good for business. 

To work out the right fee, I think you have some maths to do. In your position I'd be estimating the income per moored boat, per night, taking in to account what proportion would spend in the pub at all and of those that did, what they'd spend. Then I'd look at the average mooring numbers on the farmers side and use that to estimate the potential income from that side. That should then inform what you would need to charge to make a reasonable profit. Very much guesswork to begin with and then you'd need to monitor actual numbers of boats to check you were charging correctly. 

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Thurne Dyke is so narrow and so heavily used by people who have no idea what they are doing that, frankly, any private boat owner prepared to moor their boat down there for long should seek psychiatric help. The potential for damage down there is great. 

Would there really be that many people looking or permanent moorings there? Especially with the new marina at Oby being readied?  

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To discourage folk who just want a mooring for the night, even the weekend, then if I were in Rick's position I would charge a straight tenner, a fiver refundable against a minimum tenner spend in the pub. 

Perhaps sailing boats, especially those with two masts. because of their quaint charm and picturesque appearance, should be able to moor for free!

Rick, PLEASE, please don't put that awful crushed concrete stuff down on the banks, it's cruel to boats!

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