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Timbo

Tudor Reformation

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As long as it's not kippers, goldfish and Drambuie...

So a long and hot day in the sun getting on with the doors. Timber from both sources is shifting any which way it pleases, but I'm soldiering on regardless. The first job this morning was to plane all of the new timber to size and cut the new stiles. I then cut the new centre rail as well as the panel for the bottom.

Instead of tempting fate and cutting my fingers off while making the tenons on the tablesaw, I decided to make floating tenons. So, I've spent most of the day chopping out eight mortises, before finally cutting and glueing in the tenons into the centre rail.

I still have to cut slots for biscuits (there's food?) for the panel and route a shadow relief around all of the face edges on both sides before everything can be fitted together.

I did have time for a quick test fit, although I did not push the joints all the way together as they are a squeaky tight fit, BUT... the curl I had in the stiles seems to transfer along the length of the 'door' from bottom to top and its straightening itself out as it goes.

DSC_0005.JPG

Now I'm wondering if I add another rail...so that I divide the glass area into two, somewhere around the position of the pencil in the lower photo, whether this would help get shut of a lot of the timber movement?

DSC_0004.JPG

 

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Tim, if you think thats bad, I still have to make two sets of these, but 1/12 of the size.

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11 hours ago, Timbo said:

As long as it's not kippers, goldfish and Drambuie...

So a long and hot day in the sun getting on with the doors. Timber from both sources is shifting any which way it pleases, but I'm soldiering on regardless. The first job this morning was to plane all of the new timber to size and cut the new stiles. I then cut the new centre rail as well as the panel for the bottom.

Instead of tempting fate and cutting my fingers off while making the tenons on the tablesaw, I decided to make floating tenons. So, I've spent most of the day chopping out eight mortises, before finally cutting and glueing in the tenons into the centre rail.

I still have to cut slots for biscuits (there's food?) for the panel and route a shadow relief around all of the face edges on both sides before everything can be fitted together.

I did have time for a quick test fit, although I did not push the joints all the way together as they are a squeaky tight fit, BUT... the curl I had in the stiles seems to transfer along the length of the 'door' from bottom to top and its straightening itself out as it goes.

DSC_0005.JPG

Now I'm wondering if I add another rail...so that I divide the glass area into two, somewhere around the position of the pencil in the lower photo, whether this would help get shut of a lot of the timber movement?

DSC_0004.JPG

 

Hi Tim are you going to peg the tenons to try and avoid joint creep, I have seen far too many hardwood doors fitted where it is a constant battle to stop them sticking.

Putting another tenon in the upper section of the doors will give them more strength, I guess you will be rebating out for the glass before assembly.

Regards

Alan

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you could either peg the tenons or make the mortices angled slightly to the outside and make a saw kerf in the tenon and insert a wedge into the end of the tenon so it cannot pull through.

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Back to square one! Brace yourselves, the forums automatic swear box is about to get a hammering....fairy pixie newt daffodil hyacinth flipping twonk biscuit!

As this thunderstorm approaches my headache has grown steadily worse all day, but I soldiered on trying to make things work. The floating panel killed the design...and the warping wood made the whole thing a no go. The good thing about my better half is that she knows when to push me along and she knows when it's time for me to put something down, sit and have a cogitate and more importantly she knows how to sit down with me and make me think along the right lines to come up with the right idea. There are not many women that would give up an afternoon to trawl through YouTube watching woodwork videos!

The coming storm front and rain over the next few days mean that I won't be able to work in my shed at home. As I won't give up I've spent the afternoon researching alternative techniques and a new venue to carry out the construction. More to follow as I thrash out the idea on a walk with The Boys!

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Tim, look at how the wood is bending, then try and work the design to make each piece cancel out the effect of the other.

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5 hours ago, brundallNavy said:

Plywood ????

well you could always cut your timber into thin veneers and bond it over the plywood, with some nice feature joints.

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Nah! All you need is hardboard and fablon (if you can still get it).

Or some nice plastic patio doors.

The quickest way I can think of is cut down the thickness and laminate together back to back BUT at sometime it will delaminate. 

paul

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2 hours ago, grendel said:

well you could always cut your timber into thin veneers and bond it over the plywood, with some nice feature joints.

Or buy some nice iron on veneer and a hard wood strip down the sides.

Doug.

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12 hours ago, brundallNavy said:

Plywood ????

Sensei! :default_eusa_naughty:

So...I decided to go back to basics and look at the materials I have available...a shed load of sapele, I'll give him plywood, grumble, grumble. Between the two batches, I purchased I have enough straight planks for the six slimmer stiles. I then remembered the 3" x 3" from Tim Collins I had brought home to make the window rails that was not long enough for that purpose. So I have some lumber that I can mill at home that will give me two straight wider boards.

Taking on board as Grendel says how all of this wood is shifting about, I noticed on the last attempt that any slight twist or warp in the lumber was eradicated where the tenon pushed into the mortise. If only I could have a tenon that ran the length of the rails? Well, I can if I abandon the mortise and tenon and use the table saw to cut tongue and groove doors? Thinking about materials again I was going to use plastic instead of glass for the windows (daughter in law works for a plastic supplier and can provide the windows cut to size) but by using the tongue and groove I can up the dimension to the thicker 6mm stuff. I can also use my thicknesser to get the bottom panels down to a 6mm thickness.

So If I use tongue and groove construction I can hopefully eradicate most of the timber irregularities providing I can keep the lumber 'square' while it goes through the table saw. So...time to break out the featherboards!

I took the time last night to drag out Sketchup! I'd forgotten how much I enjoy 3D modelling, not quite 3DsMax or Maya but it got the job done! So I now have plans and dimensions ready to hand.

Aft Door Plans Tongue and groove.jpg

As for a new venue to do the build, I was asked by the future father in law last week if I could do a small woodwork job for him. He actually expressed his incredulity that he would ever consider me to be a source of help in matters woodwork or construction! So seeing as he has a forty-foot by twenty-foot workshop and after a discussion this afternoon. I loading my tools and lumber into the car and heading for Lincoln on Monday! Now then before I make even more scrap wood...am I barking up the wrong tree with this design?

And finally...

10 hours ago, Malanka said:

Yeah .., give me six....

Erm...six of the best heading Martin's way, now that's an image that is going to be stuck in my head all the way through the anaesthetic for my op tomorrow!

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Hi Tim the design looks good to me. and thick plastic or lexan if your Daughter in Law can get it will make it a stronger door than using glass.

Regards

Alan

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the tongue and groove method should work well.I have seen doors made that way

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So, I'm up and out of bed after yesterdays surgery and feeling a little more human, albeit one that's gone ten rounds with a gorilla ...and lost! My usual post anaesthetic pangs for weird food combinations (my usual is ice cream and pickled onions) this time settled on copious amounts of cake and buns. This may be a result of me looking like the Elephant Man by the time the surgeon had finished with me. I can only hope my memory improves too! On the Beagle scale of how poorly I felt yesterday, it was a maximum 2!

DSC_0015.JPG

So this morning is a chance to take things easy, change dressings and do what I'm calling 'Digital Boat Building'. Sketchup is suited and booted and I'm printing off cutting lists and plans for when I start work on Monday.

Top and bottom rails.jpg

Ben Gunn is as keen to help as I am to get on with the project. Although I did notice that he's very protective of his 'shed'. So much so that he'd rather move his beloved immaculate car out of its double garage for the duration of the project so that we can turn the garage into a temporary workshop. I noticed a similar trait in myself when Ellie suggested I keep the strimmer, a none woodworking tool, in my small shed!

Additional planning involves transporting tools and timber across Lincolnshire including the table saw, jointer, thicknesser, router, chisels and a cart load of clamps as well as the rolling carts I made for each machine so we can shift them easily once they are in the temporary workshop in Lincoln. Then there's all of the camera and associated lighting equipment to record the fun! 

I've just been told that I will be taking a trip to Lincoln shopping this afternoon. I have readily agreed as we are going to JTF and they have car body filler on offer at the minute! I can also pick up some wood stain and varnish so that I can finish off the slots on the doors before I assemble everything.

Now one thing is vexing me regarding the new design, and Sensei is either at work, in bed or boating so will check with him later but...I'm wondering about the use of some sort of sealant on the windows to stop them rattling in the frames should the timber frame contract?

 

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1 minute ago, brundallNavy said:

WORK !!!!

I'm workin...going as fast as I can Sir...please, not the mole-grips...oh, I see :facepalm:...well don't work too hard!

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Had a quick look at Tudor Rose during the week whilst taking a well earned break from getting our boat finished in time for Beccles, Tudor Rose is also on the list to be at Beccles ! looks like she needs a bit more than rear doors within the next few weeks !

Nice planking though.

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Tim, if you can save stl files from sketchup, I can probably print the parts you need (in 1/12 scale though).

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Wonder if it would be possible to do something similar to a crowdfunding type of idea, but with time, move along the restoration a pace with a few more volunteers. You could count me in for a day or so, any excuse to work on boats.

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4 hours ago, Victoryv said:

Had a quick look at Tudor Rose during the week whilst taking a well earned break from getting our boat finished in time for Beccles, Tudor Rose is also on the list to be at Beccles ! looks like she needs a bit more than rear doors within the next few weeks !

Nice planking though.

I couldn't have done it without Tim he makes a great cup of coffee, actually I did as we ran out of cups lol.

 

Oh you mean the missing engine, fuel tank, toilet, cooker, cabin side and deck.  Work is progressing abet a bit slower than we planned but the list keeps growing. Once we understood it was not going to make Beccles we decided to do a few extra bits while its out of the water.

At least it isn't the only one not going :default_gbxhmm:

:default_beerchug:

Doug.

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Time is the biggest factor and of course, the whole teaching Timbo as we go along thing. All volunteers are of course welcome...especially ones with skills in cup washing! I'm adding a washing up bowl, fairy liquid, pan scrub and tea towel to the list of 'workshop essentials'.

I think the teaching is the most important aspect, after the boat herself, in the whole process. Four years ago, although boating was a passion, I was as clueless about boats and woodwork as I had been for most of my life. You can only learn so much from the internet, at some point you are going to have to pick up a tool and mean it! But today illustrated the 'kick' I now get of having confidence in both myself and my new found abilities. Don't get me wrong, the chaps in the boat sheds have forgotten more than I will ever know about boats and woodwork but there is an immense satisfaction of being able to plan, design, build and finish a project. Half the battle is the correct knowledge, the next forty percent is having the right tools and the rest is practice and a practice some more!

A temporary relocation of the workshop to Ben Gunn's garage meant the father in law nervously observing someone he thought as 'bright in an academic way' tackle the business end of setting up tools to do a job once way beyond his abilities. While I unloaded the first car load of tools and machinery, Ben Gunn set about protecting his collection of lawnmowers and garden equipment from any dust I might create. He divided the double garage in half using plastic dust sheets. By the time I had the table saw unloaded and set up the garage looked like we were contemplating dismembering a corpse.

A quick demonstration of my Bosch GTS 10 XC table saw followed. Ben Gunn is an officiando of the 'Pound Shop'. Consequently, he was a little confounded as to why I thought I needed a £700 table saw. The answer is quite simple. I've discovered that most woodworking techniques these days centre around the table saw. I started out with a £50 machine from Argos. It works...sort of, but had no fence. I then 'upgraded' to a £100 machine from Screwfix. It worked better, but the fence was sloppy. I upgraded the fence but was still reliant on a number of home made jigs and sledges to get most of the operations I wanted doing. Eventually,  with use, the 'tin' table top moved out of square. So I bought the Bosch, although with a bit of shopping around I got the price down from £700 to £469.

I now have a machine which is very accurate, with a brilliant fence, can expand to cut sheet stock with ease and has its own built in mitre/cross cut sledge using the mitre gauge which is also very accurate. Fiendishly clever those Germans. The riving knife is also retractable so the GTS 10 XC can also cut slots and grooves without wandering...very important when making tongue and groove joints for Royal Tudor's aft cabin doors.

0601B30470.jpg?w=1280&h=960&scale=both

Calamity is my occasional companion and decided to stick her oar into the proceedings at this point. Reaching up to help Ben Gunn with a dust sheet I pulled my back. Well, the muscles around my back. I must have strained them unloading the saw, but driving home I was in agony. So great was the pain that Ellie had to help me out of the car and I even asked her to 'rub my back'. There should be some sort of sound effect there...because asking my better half for a back rub is a BIG thing! Ellie does not so much gently massage away your aches and pains as beat the living crap out of you! In my younger days, my school and university thought my ability to run a long way very fast was something to be nurtured. The 1500 metres turned into running marathons and eventually turned into a chronic back injury. Never, ever take up running. It is really bad for you. The removal of three discs and fusing of my spine lead to my very first stroke. In the last year I was running and presumed fit and healthy I had fifteen strokes. Since I took up drinking and smoking I've only had four. The math is clear. Swap that gym membership for a good bottle of wine and a packet of twenty!

So after being pummelled by my better half I lurched into the house, took ibuprofen, dug out my hot water bottle and took myself to bed for three hours. Taking the Boys for their evening constitutional I was still very sore but the movement was returning.

Before writing this missive I decided I had better sharpen my chisels ready for tomorrow. Sharpening chisels and plane blades is something I've been having great difficulty doing one handed. I could never apply the correct pressure to the blade, even using a honing guide. I discussed the matter with Sensei and he suggested I look out a different style of guide. In the end, I plumped for the Trend Sharpening system. Once again it costs a bit at £60 but the results are incredible. Initial sharpening of my blades took quite a while as my previous attempts had distorted my chisels drastically. But with a bit of effort all of my chisels, we flattened ground to an initial twenty-five degree straight angle with a final 30-degree cutting edge applied. At last, I have chisels so sharp they slice paper, that can shave the hairs off the back of my arm, cut wood and maybe even tackle my ex-wife's beard!

fts_chis1_s_24.jpg

So, the kettle has just boiled and I've refilled the hot water bottle. I'm about to take the night time meds...don't forget your cape Mr Hyde...and it's an early night ready to tackle those doors tomorrow!

 

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