River Waveney (Warning May contain Trains)

[Bound2Please]

2 hours ago, dnks34 said:

I must live a good mile away from Oulton Broad North Station however the Ipswich track passes within a 1/4 of a mile of my house and even at this distance I can fully relate to the incredibly noisey locos sometimes used on the line and why they predominantly seem to use the noisey ones late on is beyond me. 

I dont think being interesting makes it acceptable either.  Certainly in this area the trains not only cause inconvenience in terms of traffic delays but in my opinion negatively affect the wider local economy.

Slowing the trains down may not only improve crossing safety across the country but could also reduce the time level crossings such as Oulton Broad North need to be closed. 

 

You bought the house knowing that the railway was there, in fact theres a very good chance the railway was there lnong before your house. What makes a train noisy is the 60' lengths found around crossings, if LWR was used the roasd surface would get messed up by expansion and contraction of the LWR. The railway was there long before the roads, maybe they were tracks at that time.....

 

Slowing trains down would not improve crossing safety at all its people going across against red flash lights educate the pedestrians and impatient road user. If trains were made to travel slower they would then be in section longer making the crossing closed to road users.

 

As an ex British Rail linesman at Shenfield that covered Gidea Park to Southen Victoria, Southminster and Boreham. I know a thing or two about crossings how signals work.

Charlie

[BrundallNavy]

2 hours ago, dnks34 said:

This is the article I found on the Network Rail website which indicates number of trains per hour through Oulton Broad North at peak times:

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/waiting-times-at-oulton-broad-north-level-crossing-to-be-improved

The article is from 2015 and there are further pieces reporting the signalling changes took place in 2016, what if any difference the changes actually made to traffic flow.  I cant say ive noticed any.

I must live a good mile away from Oulton Broad North Station however the Ipswich track passes within a 1/4 of a mile of my house and even at this distance I can fully relate to the incredibly noisey locos sometimes used on the line and why they predominantly seem to use the noisey ones late on is beyond me. 

I dont think being interesting makes it acceptable either.  Certainly in this area the trains not only cause inconvenience in terms of traffic delays but in my opinion negatively affect the wider local economy.

What irks me more than anything is all this nonsense that journey times on trains must be reduced. What difference would the extra 5 to 10 minutes on a Lowestoft to Norwich journey actually make to the few people using the trains compared with the 100's if not 1000's of road users inconvenienced by it every day.  

Slowing the trains down may not only improve crossing safety across the country but could also reduce the time level crossings such as Oulton Broad North need to be closed. 

This frantic obsession with constantly shortening journey times be it train bus or air travel is unnecessary and has negative consequences in other areas that never seem considered!!

The "Tractor" loco's {class 37} are on hire from DRS while the class 170 and 156 under goes refurbishment, they cannot use them on the Wherry Line as it has short platforms.

i actually quite like the sound when it's under power but not standing next to it while it starts up.  The class 68's were due to go back after the 170 that hit the tractor near Thetford came back but have been kept on due to a shortage of units.

[dnks34]

bound2please ,

please explain to me how slowing trains for level crossings wouldnt contribute to improving overall safety?    

Having pointed out your employment history to me you will no doubt be aware of the recent death involving the tractor on the crossing near Thetford.  Had the train been travelling slower is there not an outside chance that the collision might have been averted, or at least not resulting in a death. 

If the trains travelled slower through Brundall would the pedestrian crossings not be much safer?

and just for the record,  I dont own my house I choose to rent, I can move whenever I choose.  I wasnt complaining about the loco noise as I am not near enough to be disturbed by it I was stating I could hear some of the trains used in agreement with JM.  This attitude of the railways were there first is shortsighted at best. 

I regurlarly have to give up going to do what I need to do in Oulton Broad after sitting in traffic for 35minutes and going nowhere, along with all the other road users so Im sorry if my point of view comes across with little tolerance of the railways! 

What may have worked 20 years ago isnt working anymore, and if the railways cant change with the times maybe their importance is being totally over emphasised. 

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Bound2Please said:

You bought the house knowing that the railway was there, in fact theres a very good chance the railway was there lnong before your house. What makes a train noisy is the 60' lengths found around crossings, if LWR was used the road surface would get messed up by expansion and contraction of the LWR. The railway was there long before the roads, maybe they were tracks at that time.....

Charlie

Charlie, believe me, in this case it's the locomotives that are excessively noisy, just one particular type, not the more usual trains that service the Lowestoft/Norwich line.

[dnks34]

9 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Charlie, believe me, in this case it's the locomotives that are excessively noisy, just one particular type, not the more usual trains that service the Lowestoft/Norwich line.

Never hear those at this distance!

Incidently we almost did decide to buy a property recently, it ticked almost every box but there was one fundamental issue with it, its location.  North Oulton Broad potentially adding 45minutes a day to journey times to and from work which for the distance would be faster to walk.  Delays which in the most part are caused by the railway. Once the traffic begins to back up at peak times it gets little chance to clear. 

[BrundallNavy]

It's actually very difficult to either cut services or make them slower due to govement red tape, you can of course add more very easily.

In Bicester where I use to live the main A41 London road has a crossing with a station next to it like OB, the track use to be single line to Oxford with the station the correct side of the road hence minimal disruption. 3 years ago the Train operator applied to change the line to duel and link it with the Birmingham to London line. This requires crossing the road and with 3 trains an hour in each direction together with the requirement to close the crossing while the train is in the platform results in the crossing being closed more than its open, it has caused chaos but nothing will change due to the above.

The rail system needs a major overhaul but if you look at the state of HS2 it won't be in my lifetime.

[dnks34]

BrundallNavy that sounds very similar to what goes on at Oulton Broad North.  

In my opinion there needs to be new thinking in situations like this not just for Oulton Broad but for anywhere else the local economy is being stunted by a level crossing 

What if any thought is given to the adverse effects of just adding a service and linking this and that up here and there when the train operators objective seems purely to make money.

 

[LondonRascal]

To put things into perspective, I live about a quarter of a mile from a new depot that has been constructed to service all the Cross Rail (Elizabeth Line) trains. Also where all the Great Northern suburban and long distance stock are serviced - leave aside the construction of this area (on existing unused sidings) but the new huge buildings that went up it makes a lot of noise.

You've got the noise of train movements into the early hours, horn tests (usually but not always at reduced volumes). But what you don't get is the throb of a Diesel  locomotive and I miss that, just as I miss the old 125 trains with their Paxman Valenta engines passing under power north out of the capital. 

But, you know what? It does not bother me one little bit the noise - I find it almost comforting. What does annoy me is the fact every hour or so a mass of sirens that rip through the relative quietness - usually Police, then at least twice a week the Police Helicopter will come over and wake everyone up - 2am seems a popular time for it being needed to hunt Criminals. But that is London life.

 

 

[dnks34]

I suppose we all have different things that irritate us.

Its isnt the noise that bothers me its the traffic delays which are of significant inconvenience.

But it does make me wonder why they seem to use the noisiest trains for the later services when the could utilise the quiter ones.  

You would think the train operators would show a bit of initiative and be a bit more neighbourly. 

I was moored up at Reedham Ferry one evening and was looking skyward for the flaming aircraft wreckage when I realised it was an old diesel train some distance away, what a racket, the locals must have needed ear defenders! 

[BroadAmbition]

You bought the house knowing that the railway was there, in fact there's a very good chance the railway was there long before your house

That gave me a bit of a smirk.  We live about 1/4 mile away from what used to be known as RAF Finningley, nowadays known as Robin Hood Ariport (Robin Hood was a Yorkshireman of course)  Over the past 20 odd years we have had a LOT of new housing erected.  The number of folk I hear moaning about aircraft noise.  RAF Finningley has been there since the 1930's,  L o n g   before many of todays houses were considered let alone built.  It's a bit like buying a house next to a river then moaning when it floods.  You couldn't make it up

Griff

[dnks34]

I could listen to jet engines all day, infact I used to live adjacent to Norwich Airport in Old Catton and always wished it was busier than it was.  

Lowestoft airshow day was a particular favourite with many display aircraft using it as a base, with the occasional red arrows and vulcun visit, some of the reds would fly directly over our house when coming in to land after doing the formation flypast over the field, just brilliant!

But even though railways have been around a very long time in terms of noise it shouldnt necessarily give them carte blanche. 

How much noise did a steam train make when compared with one of these hell fire powered diesels we get into lowestoft! 

[JennyMorgan]

Lowestoft's problems stem not so much from housing being built after the railways but more a case of the transport infrastructure not having kept up with the town's growth. 

[ChrisB]

I have lived next to the Metropolitan line at Little Chalfont. Never noticed it except when the leaf blowers or deicers worked at night in winter.

Now unless there is farm machinery I only hear the wind and when the wind is high from the north, the sea. About four times a day a helicopter goes out and returns from the rigs. The biggest noise is when the jets are training usually in twos but I like those and get my bins out to watch, but that is not very often. Somedays I hear nothing but wind and sea, my son when he visits does not sleep well until he has been here for a couple of nights he says "it's too quiet".

[Vaughan]

9 hours ago, dnks34 said:

How much noise did a steam train make when compared with one of these hell fire powered diesels we get into lowestoft! 

Actually, this is why the diesels were painted with yellow warning panels on the front, as they made much less noise than steam. People were being run down on foot crossings because they were used to hearing a steam train coming from miles away, but they got no warning from the diesels.

I think these engines we are talking about used to be the class 37, which used to be called the growlers, because they made a lot more noise than the others. Nothing like a Napier Deltic though - that was a real noise!

[Chelsea14Ian]

I have mixed views on this one,I  understand your views on noise.These diesels are noisey but when we go to Oulton we jump on the train to Lowerstoft,always pleased  to travel on one of the old diesels.Our last house was about  30 yards from the track,always busy. Yet it was strange  at Christmas  no trains.that house and this is on the flight  path of London  city Airport 

[Bound2Please]

41 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Actually, this is why the diesels were painted with yellow warning panels on the front, as they made much less noise than steam.

Actually Vaughan thats why all trains have yellow fronts to them, to be seen.  If people didnt try thinking they know more that a signaling system accidents would be avoided. Also if farm crossing phones were used by farmers in stead of relying on time tables, light engines and cars dont run to diagrams they get slotted in spaces. These farm crossing phones are a direct link to signalman of that line section, he knows where trains are from his panel. They are there for use not as ornaments.

Rant over

Charlie

[Vaughan]

Quite agree Charlie but my point was that steam locomotives never had yellow fronts and they still don't, even when preserved ones are running on the mainline.

The first diesels (DMUs as well as locomotives) were painted plain green and it wasn't long before they all had to have a warning panel because of several accidents. I can remember them being plain green when they first came to Norwich.

[TheQ]

The arrival of Diesels  (Except the LMS twins and the GWR Kerosene Castles) also arrived with the introduction of unmanned crossings and half barriers. You couldn't drive past a half barrier and with the man standing there, closing the crossing, there were a lot less last minute drive throughs as the barriers fell.

 Adrian Vaughan's "Obstruction Danger" and " Tracks to disaster" show that.

Also railways were much noisier due to the loose coupled freight banging and crashing around, and there were a lot more freight trains back then.

But Steam loco's still had a Red Buffer and red was seen as the colour of Danger back then, not Yellow /fluorescent lime green or Orange. 

 

[MauriceMynah]

1 hour ago, Bound2Please said:

If people didnt try thinking they know more that a signaling system accidents would be avoided.

Couldn't agree more Charlie, also if they took a bit more notice of what's going on around them and a little less to the whatever it is they stick in their ears these days their survival rate might increase yet more.

Don't paint the fronts of trains yellow, paint them with camouflage and tell people crossing to look VERY CAREFULLY. :)

[deebee29]

1 hour ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

I have mixed views on this one,I  understand your views on noise.These diesels are noisey but when we go to Oulton we jump on the train to Lowerstoft,always pleased  to travel on one of the old diesels.Our last house was about  30 yards from the track,always busy. Yet it was strange  at Christmas  no trains.that house and this is on the flight  path of London  city Airport 

We've  always lived  close the east coast main line and never notice the noise until as you say Ian, Christmas Day when there's no trains running.

The silence is deafening 

[jeffbroadslover]

Is it possible for one of the mods to retitle this thread?

I thought I was about to read something interesting about a river not a train users  handbook !!!

Jeff

[grendel]

I have modified the title now.

 

[dnks34]

2 hours ago, Bound2Please said:

These farm crossing phones are a direct link to signalman of that line section, he knows where trains are from his panel. They are there for use not as ornaments.

Please do correct me if Im wrong but didnt it turn out to be the signalman at fault for the tractor/train collision at Thetford?  

The tractor driver used the phone at the crossing and still got hit by the train. 

 

[Bound2Please]

19 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Please do correct me if Im wrong but didnt it turn out to be the signalman at fault for the tractor/train collision at Thetford?  

The tractor driver used the phone at the crossing and still got hit by the train. 

 

Cant comment on that at all as I wasnt at the DTI inquiry about it.  I have been on one and they are not nice.

Charlie

[BrundallNavy]

25 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Please do correct me if Im wrong but didnt it turn out to be the signalman at fault for the tractor/train collision at Thetford?  

The tractor driver used the phone at the crossing and still got hit by the train. 

 

I understand It was actually his boss standing in while he had a break but I might be wrong. I have been in the Marylebone box and it's fascinating to watch. 

I once pushed the help button at Worsted and spoke to someone in India 

Edited August 10, 2017 by brundallNavy