Boat Window Shot Out?

[JennyMorgan]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/police-investigate-broads-shooting-after-boat-window-shattered-by-bullet-1-5186057

[NeilB]

Report is a little vague, although that seems usual for the EDP.  Was it a stray shotgun pellet, someone deliberately shooting an air rifle pellet or as the report mentions "bullets" which suggests a full bore rifle?

All are worrying but a full bore rifle can do more damage at a longer range.  

[ChrisB]

The word "Bullet" is very emotive. Given the way EDP report it is probably a pellet. 

Rifles fall into two catagories "Small Bore" say .22 rim fire or .17hmr or "Full Bore" .243, 7.6mm .375 etc. All rifles fall under FAC and extremely difficult to obtain without just reason. A Full Bore would have done more than break a window.

Over 60 metres a stray shotgun pellet has lost a huge amount of energy and would be hard pressed to break toughened glass, SG might.

Most likely some idiot with an air gun. I assume they have recovered the "round" if not then how do they know it was shot at. Or has a window been broken, they hear someone shooting and 2+2=5

 

[TheQ]

My mobile home faces out over fields for some miles. An opening double glazed toplight was hit and broken (inner and outer panes). We never found a round, but what else other than some sort of round could have done the damage?

On the other hand, I don't know the area of the incident, but do they have bird scarers in the area? We've had them going just about all summer as they harvest one crop and plant another. Would a tourist know the difference between a bird scarer and some sort of  weapon sound?

 

[ScrumpyCheddar]

Was only shattered then..... Not shot out as stated.... what's all the fuss now?..

When it happened over a week and bit ago... I was there Sunday all I heard was the train going over the bridge banging....  sounds like an insurance claim for a new window...

[MauriceMynah]

My guess is a mix of Bird scarer and a stone chucked up by a lawmower or something else equally in newsworthy. However, If the EDP can get the rumour going that gunmen are running the city of Somerlayton, then that's another scoop for Archant. 

[JennyMorgan]

I've been out at nearby Lound Lakes several times recently and bird scarers have been hard at work so I too suspect that that suggestion is sound.. Catapults are often the culprit where double glazing is damaged. 

[ranworthbreeze]

Several years ago when we moored at Ferry Marina, we had to have the windscreen replaced after someone had been using the moored boats as target practice.

Regards

Alan

[grendel]

we had a double glazed window broken at home - just the outer pane, later we found a golf ball in the back garden, we have a small bit of green behind the house, so goodness only knows.

[addicted]

I used to live opposite to a golf course in North London, we built the House ourselves and had the front windows glazed in 1/4 plate instead of the standard of the day which  was 16oz in anticipation of stray golf balls. We had one incident where a "plug" of glass was"shot" out of window, we thought at the time it was unlikely to have been a golf ball and more likely to have been some sort of firearm. We had the car dented by  a golf ball though.

 

 

Carole

[vanessan]

When we were moored at Somerleyton in July, there was a lot of shooting over at the house on the opposite bank. There was a chap walking around with a rifle at the time, presumably taking pot shots at wildlife. It was a bit worrying so close to public moorings but I could not see where he was actually shooting from. 

[Bound2Please]

1 minute ago, vanessan said:

There was a chap walking around with a rifle at the time, presumably taking pot shots at wildlife.

It was a bit worrying so close to public moorings but I could not see where he was actually shooting from. 

If you could see him walking round with a rifle, how comes you could not see where he was shooting from.  was you close enough to tell if it was an air rifle, shot gun or indeed a rifle.

Charlie

[vanessan]

Because he was carrying the 'rifle' at the time. I have no idea what it actually was as I wouldn't know a Winchester from an AK47 or whatever it is!!

 

[Malanka]

Never underestimate the power of the little old .22 (5.56 for the metric amongst us) The 0.22 short round as used for target rifles and years ago "sport rifles" can and has very famously killed from over 1 mile away. The incident was at Perry Barr in Birmingham, the person in question shot at a pigeon (to hit one with a sport rifle takes some skill but is not impossible) unfortunately he was firing uphil and the bullet trajectory (the classic parabola)  on the up swing matched this perfectly, the bullet then started to descend and intersected with a  guys chest who was a mile away standing on a tree stump on the other side of the hill. The bullet hit him smack in the upper quadrant straight into his heart stopped it immediately so no blood and the guydrops and dies instantly.

 

Autopsy found the bullet, eventually the shooter was found, cant remember the outcome of the courtcase. 

 

If memory serves it was 1957 but I'm old so can't really remember all the rifle instructor training. But I remember that.

The military 5.56 is of course a completely different kettle of kinetic energy.

 

My dad used to shoot rabbits and pike with his BSA Martini which weighed in at 15lb so was hard to lug about. Lovely rifle very smooth. He gave up ownership after years of harassment from the local constabulary. So he took up Archery instead, the 100lb bow and three feet long aluminium arrows he had were way more dangerous than his BSA but no visits from the boys in blue. Go figure... 

[ChrisB]

The .22LR always carried a warning on the box flap "Dangerous within 1 mile"  the .22 short was the original Smith and Wesson round from about 1850. 

I would have thought that this accident would have been cause by a .22LR (long rifle) because most hunters would not use a short round in their gun as it creates a "jump" from chamber to rifling leading to bad leading and inaccuracy.

At about 28gr Vs 40gr for the LR and a generally lower muzzle velocity due to the much smaller case a short would have difficulty traveling a mile. The Short is often refered to as a "Gallery Round" because of its target use generating 50 to 60 ft/lbs at the muzzle as opposed to a Long Rifle at over 100 ft/lbs.

Nowadays the .22 has been displaced for control purposes by the .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire (HMR) whilst only 17gr it's velocity of 2550fps is twice that of the .22LR as is it's 250 ft/lbs energy.

Given that the the law requires unlicenced Air Weapons to generate no more than 12 ft/lbs for a rifle and 6 ft/lbs for a pistol you can understand that given the power of these small bore rifles why in this crowded country an FAC is very difficult to acacquire. Comparison Short.22 V .22LR

 

[stumpy]

Many years ago there was a range on the cliffs South of Lowestoft, Benacre/Kessingland way. (JM would know) A dog walker on the beach a good mile or more beyond the butts got in the way of a high flying. 303 from a Lee Enfield. I think the range closed soon after. 

[Malanka]

Hi Chris it was definitley the short round fired from what americans call a "sport rifle", not usually much use for anything except plinking at cans IMO, which is why everyone was so surprised the the incident happened and why it was told to all NSRA instructors as part of the club instrutor course. We used to use the Ely Tenex .22LR (when I could afford it) for target shooting (NSRA Winter meet League division one mind you... LOL)

 

The only reason it happened was the parabola of the bullet and the shape of the hill. The energy in the round was minimal at impact but still enough to kill the guy.

I used to wonder where my bad back comes from then I remember British Shooters Bent Back Disease. lol

 

Lying prone in a cold, damp shed in Coventry with a 15lb target rifle strapped to my left arm, my shooting jacket fastened up tight, my monoscope and my little wooden block of 12 bullets to use for competition was fun at the time. Not so much now.

Plus all the propellent in the air used to make us all stink after a couple of hours down there. We used to get so much hassle carrying fully cased rifles on the bus though even then (1980- 1983)

 

I used to have a collection of cartridge cases which got stolen in a break in. They all had their bullets attached but no propellent. Had a .50 cal pistol round and a couple of dud 20mm Cannon rounds too. I once got a lab job on the strength of my shooting as the head lab guy was a shooter. Bit of a Wally as his claim to fame (he wasn't that good) was to have shot himslef in the foot. I kid you not.

 

I did briefly flirt with pistols the browning .22 version. Was fun but sooo difficult, first time ever I tried it I managed to hit the target paper (18 inches square) a total of twice with ten rounds.  None in the target area of course. I did get better but I have huge admiration for pistol shooters, be they recreational or professional.

M

 

[TheQ]

After one of the incidents ,  I believe at a military range in Dorset. the military decided to check every range they owned and my Dad was in the team responsible for checking every one in Scotland.

 They found one range in Glasgow hadn't been updated since it was built for muskets back in the 1700s, and some Indoor ranges were closed temporarily for improvement as there was nowhere for the poisonous fumes to be expelled...

 

I remember the range at RAF Locking, which if you missed and fired slightly to the right or left of the range you were firing at the M5 and over the years I bet quite a few 7.62 rounds went that way...

[MauriceMynah]

I used to belong to a shooting club based in a railway tunnel in Devizes. I never got on with rifles but thoroughly enjoyed pistol shooting, my preference being a 357 revolver (4 inch) using a '38 special' round. I actually got quite good at it and was going to take up the sport when "Dunblaine" happened.

[ChrisB]

45 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I used to belong to a shooting club based in a railway tunnel in Devizes. I never got on with rifles but thoroughly enjoyed pistol shooting, my preference being a 357 revolver (4 inch) using a '38 special' round. I actually got quite good at it and was going to take up the sport when "Dunblaine" happened.

That is a hand hurting round, I used to fire one at the range in Little Chalfont.

 

1 hour ago, stumpy said:

Many years ago there was a range on the cliffs South of Lowestoft, Benacre/Kessingland way. (JM would know) A dog walker on the beach a good mile or more beyond the butts got in the way of a high flying. 303 from a Lee Enfield. I think the range closed soon after. 

I shot .303 from a Lee Enfield short mag. MK 4  for the School at Bisley. Modified .303s were used, not prone but in a most uncomfortable looking lying position by some shooters at up to a mile. It used to be hard work working the targets up and down in the Butts with rounds flying over you. The highlight was sometimes the Armourer would let us have a go at the running deer targets that were deer going along a miniture railway track. .303 ammunition is like gold dust now. 

We had a Lee Enfield at home that had been converted to a .410 shotgun, but it was useless except at sitters being much too heavy.

[TheQ]

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

I used to belong to a shooting club based in a railway tunnel in Devizes. I never got on with rifles but thoroughly enjoyed pistol shooting, my preference being a 357 revolver (4 inch) using a '38 special' round. I actually got quite good at it and was going to take up the sport when "Dunblaine" happened.

 

Or as it used to be when my Dad was at school In Devizes.

PS The second picture is the other end of the Tunnel

[TheQ]

When In the RAF there was a Sergeant who kept a pair of his own six guns in the Armoury and used the take them to Cowboy type events. After Dunblaine, he could still keep them while he was still In the military, but I believe not take them off base. What he did with them once he retired from the RAF I have no Idea.

[ChrisB]

Just now, TheQ said:

When In the RAF there was a Sergeant who kept a pair of his own six guns in the Armoury and used the take them to Cowboy type events. After Dunblaine, he could still keep them while he was still In the military, but I believe not take them off base. What he did with them once he retired from the RAF I have no Idea.

A lot of guns were handed in to the Police and registered firearms dealers to be scrapped.

When I moved to Norfolk I had nowhere to use hence need my BRNO .22LR so gave up my FAC. Also on my FAC was my Anshutz No3 bore 9mm garden gun so that got scrapped. It was a shame but it could not go on my shotgun certificate due to the barrel being less than 24 inches. Interestingly another gun on our shoot applied for an FAC to take over my rifle but was refused on the grounds "that on revue 4 rifles were too many on the 950 acres as the head keeper had two and the land owner one" so effectively they reduced their true firearm owners by one on that land.

[MauriceMynah]

Thanks Mr. Q, That's the place. It was called "The Tunnel Rifle and Pistol Club" when I was a member back in about 94 95.

[TheQ]

That would be 25 years after I left the area. Well 20 miles away.