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Moosey

A Week On Whisper Emblem

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Whisper is following the new trend in water systems and that is that they have a grey water tank - this means that they can use ordinary toilets and domestic style showers BUT the downside must be as stated! Our profligacy with water here in the UK is renowned and if you spend too long in the shower it will do two things - empty your water tank and here, fill up your grey tank!!

I don't suppose many people care but one of the worst things that is happening to Broads river water is the need to tackle phosphates - Anglian Water are doing their bit ( just) by putting in scrubbers to reduce the phosphates being discharged but Broads boats are not helping. Or should I say the occupants by insisting that showers need to be taken 1,2, or even 3 times a day!! Using shower gel presumably contributes to the problem, hence the trend for new boats to see grey water tanks. Incidentally this is one of the reasons that engine running is becoming the norm on moorings  as people cannot do without their daily shower, perhaps in triplicate!

I actually think this grey water tank trend may well become a requirement for new builds but why on earth do we need  to empty it so often?  Does everyone have to shower at least once a day and I would bet that if you have a normal domestic toilet, people will flush it every time they sit on it, or stand over it, not realising that they are not connected to main sewers!!

There is something to be said for having limited water - I rarely fill my tank if out for a week more than once and I am sure my BO is not that bad!!

 

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One of the best things about NBD/Faircraft Loynes is their encouragement to hirers to be aware of the need to take care of the river environment. They provide environmentally friendly washing up liquid and a fat trap and encourage hirers to bring environmentally friendly toiletries with them. I'm sure some hirers ignore the advice, but it's certainly made us think and made us go out to find suitable shower stuff etc.

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31 minutes ago, marshman said:

Broads boats are not helping

I agree with Marshman, although the jury is still out on the phosphorus problem. I recollect a draft proposal from UKTAG (UK Technical Advisory Group) crossing my desk regarding measuring phosphorus concentrations in rivers. They appeared to have their knickers in a twist somewhat as the system being used for measurement indicated our rivers were of better quality than the ecologists suggested. In other words, there was less phosphorus in the water than they thought there was. I think it was in 2012, that after a bit of computational and methodology jiggling, they came up with a new measurement system eventually agreed by Steve Ormerod at Cardiff Uni. 

The problem that the Broads is facing is one of management, as in 'the management of the environment'. Around the same time as UKTAG were trying to make the science fit the ecology, Anglian Water released a paper on phosphorus and their attempts at treatment and filtration. The first thing to grab the attention of anyone reading their report is the stated difficulty in flushing the Broads system. The rivers no longer have the flow required to flush the system of phosphates. 

I think Vaughan has mentioned on more than the odd occasion that the network of ditches that were dug through the 60's and 70's didn't help much. Thankfully that is being corrected. Two main obstacles to improving flow remain. Improper reed bed management. The Broads, as we know, are man-made. The reed beds that were once managed and cultivated, that are now being replanted, are not being managed correctly. They need 'firing' or setting fire to on a regular basis, not grow uncontrolled and neglected. The reeds were cut for thatching. We don't do that much anymore. The reeds they are now planting are a different species, unsuitable for thatch anyway. 

The second measure they seem to be neglecting that could improve flushing is dredging. They need to dredge out those stagnant swamps that pass for nature reserves! :default_norty:

You see there's a whole other side to phosphorus, born in those stagnant swamps. There's just as much, if not more, bio phosphorus in the water as comes from outflow. You see one of the things that the ecologists forget to mention is that, following work in phosphorus removal in the 80's and 90's, phosphorus levels decreased, as did the frequency of algal blooms. However, in recent years with a reduction in dredging, greater areas such as Hickling and Hoveton Great Broad we are once again experiencing an increase in both algal blooms and phosphorus.

Marshman is 'bang on' with his assessment that we boaters need to be doing more than our bit. We should be leading the way and let the bobble hats follow in our wake.

Oh, by the way...Lynx men's shower gels are one of the least environmentally friendly products out there! Horrible stuff! 

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I don't suppose reed beds transforming to carr helps either.  It certainly doesn't help sailies anyway!

Helen

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You see one of the things that the ecologists forget to mention is that, following work in phosphorus removal in the 80's and 90's, phosphorus levels decreased, as did the frequency of algal blooms.


Interesting stuff. What did they do?


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while expensive and generally quite smelly, Lush do some nice solid shampoos and some nice shower gels, all are environmentally friendly, and the solid shampoos are good for travelling. I like their honey soap.

as for showering, a flannel some soap and a sink of water, and you can have a good wash all over.

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Timbo - good post! Thank goodness I now have an excuse  (nearly ) to stink a bit!!

But two things - partially connected!

Of course you have just justified the pumping of Gt Hoveton Broad - actually I do realise its not just the pumping that has caused the furore but the public access issue quite rightly so! And

This is an argument / discussion I am not going to get into, but I am not totally convinced by all these statements about dredging the Lower Bure as being a cureall! I am well aware that over the years the salt incursions into Broadland have continued to advance up the rivers and although on the Yare and Waveney, they must be getting further and further, there is some evidence that the constriction right at the bottom of the Bure , prevents to some small extent these damaging incursions - recently these have come up as far as Horning although not too bad as yet. Remove this further and i am sure we would see more. Salt will damage the precariously balanced eco system to some extent and that is why the RSPB and others havetaking steps to keep it out of the marshes around Acle /S Walsham - is this not an example of the law of unintended circumstances operating. I wonder??

The Broads rivers do also suffer as they do have large catchment areas upstream of the navigations,and it is good to see the BA do now operate a whole river policy and together with Anglian Water do visit farms right upstream to offer advice - ultimately the message will begin to catch on but there is a lot of work to do!!!

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John K - two things about the blooms.

A bl***y good storm with a lot of rain really does help and nearly always ( always? ) in the Upper Thurne these outbreaks coincide with low water caused primarily by lack of rainfall but also the increase in salinity. Hickling and Horsey are affected by salt water incursions through the water table being so close to the sea and this and other factors usually have some part to play.

The UEA have done a lot of work on this and it seems hydrogen peroxide will help - what will the Essex girls do??  Overall whenever the next outbreak occurs expect to see a lot of "white" fish!!

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John K - two things about the blooms.
A bl***y good storm with a lot of rain really does help and nearly always ( always? ) in the Upper Thurne these outbreaks coincide with low water caused primarily by lack of rainfall but also the increase in salinity. Hickling and Horsey are affected by salt water incursions through the water table being so close to the sea and this and other factors usually have some part to play.
The UEA have done a lot of work on this and it seems hydrogen peroxide will help - what will the Essex girls do??  Overall whenever the next outbreak occurs expect to see a lot of "white" fish!!


Thanks for that.
I’m not sure about anything else in the Broads but fish (well koi) seem pretty tolerant of hydrogen peroxide.


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46 minutes ago, grendel said:

while expensive and generally quite smelly, Lush do some nice solid shampoos and some nice shower gels, all are environmentally friendly, and the solid shampoos are good for travelling. I like their honey soap.

as for showering, a flannel some soap and a sink of water, and you can have a good wash all over.

How very true, that last bit. I think it is a mindset that you must have a shower every day otherwise you will smell! Nowt  wrong with a kettle of hot water and a flannel. It’s surprising how far a tank of water will stretch when it is not wasted. Oh yes, a kettle is also very useful for boiling water for washing up too. :default_norty:

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I suppose you must wash off all the deodorant - before applying a new layer.

I remember back to the days I was small, Ice on the windows, a bath once a week, and a good scrub with a flannel the rest of the week, you didnt stay long in the bath mid winter, with the upstairs unheated, and just the one coal fire downstairs.

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6 minutes ago, grendel said:

 

I remember back to the days I was small, Ice on the windows, a bath once a week, and a good scrub with a flannel the rest of the week, you didnt stay long in the bath mid winter, with the upstairs unheated, and just the one coal fire downstairs.

Ah yes, The good old days, 

I remember growing up in the 60’s, we didn’t have a bathroom, our bath was under the worktop in the kitchen with water heated by the coal fire and the netty (toilet) was out in the yard with no heating or lighting other than a paraffin heater. The winters were cold back then.

In about 1965 we went all upmarket and had a bathroom built on .... still heated by the coal fire.

What were showers?

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I think some of us are showing our ages! In the late 60s we had storage heaters installed in our house. What bliss they were giving out heat in places where before there was none. I still think you can’t beat an open fire, be it coal or logs (preferably the latter) or even a woodburner although that’s a debate going on elsewhere I believe. 

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We were fortunate enough in the sixties to have an inside  loo and a proper bath too. No central heating , loft insulation, double glazing or shower. We had a coke fired boiler in t kitchen and open fires elsewhere, even in the bedrooms. Bath water was shared. Bath night was Sunday evenings whether we needed one or not!

Griff

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4 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

We were fortunate enough in the sixties to have an inside  loo and a proper bath too. No central heating , loft insulation, double glazing or shower. We had a coke fired boiler in t kitchen and open fires elsewhere, even in the bedrooms. Bath water was shared. Bath night was Sunday evenings whether we needed one or not!

Griff

We had a similar arrangement, most of our families houses had an outside toilet and a tin bath on the back of the cellar steps door. The bath was filled from kettles on the gas or fire range, the bath was set up in front of fire with a cloths horse behind it with a blanket on for some modesty, and everyone took their turn.

Back at home we used to have a small paraffin heater in the bathroom to stop the pipes freezing, as a child I used to get dressed in bed to fend off the cold, there was always ice on the inside of all of the windows, even the bathroom with it's slight heat.

Regards

Alan

 

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our bathroom was heated by the pilot light to the geyser this was on the wall above the bath, and was the only hot water in the house, downstairs you boiled the kettle for hot water (this was one of those old fashioned lethal gas water heaters).

we did have oilstoves, but after my mum tipped one over and it burst into flames (my dad picked it up and removed it from the house) we were always a bit dubious about them.

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And I bet we all considered ourselves lucky kids too, how different things are today! Mostly taken for granted too I’ll bet.

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12 minutes ago, vanessan said:

With sincere apologies to Moosey, another thread hijacked! 

No apologies needed, I like reading all your posts and it hides the fact I haven't got round to another update yet :default_biggrin:

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Yes I used to sleep with my underwear at the bottom of the bed to stay warm and get dressed under the blankets. We had a bathroom inside which Dad had made by knocking together the coal house and outside toilet; Grandma next door had the tin bath in front of the fire.

In the 60s we had a gas fire installed in the living room, pure luxury, and that meant no more need to bolt through to Grandma's in the morning as she always had her fire lit, we didn't because everyone was going out to work or school.

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The thing is when you hire some of these top of the range crusaders it can easily cost £2,000 for a week- surely you would expect to be able to have a shower when you want!


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You can take as many showers as you like Matt ,as long as your prepared to pumpout every couple of days.My gripe is that this is not really pointed out in the boats description .However it is pointed out in the handbook for the boat when you get aboard.

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7 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

We were fortunate enough in the sixties to have an inside  loo and a proper bath too. No central heating , loft insulation, double glazing or shower. We had a coke fired boiler in t kitchen and open fires elsewhere, even in the bedrooms. Bath water was shared. Bath night was Sunday evenings whether we needed one or not!

Griff

to make a new fire we'd take half a going fire on a spade through the house, to start the new fire.

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We had fireplaces but only ever one fire in the living room, by the time you got to my uninsulated attic, the ice was on the inside of the skylight.

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Even in 1974 we still had a range in the 'parlour' and a copper in the kitchen.

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