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Polly

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At last a philosophical debate...Polly's husband you know...Phil O'Sophical, one of the old nautical Sophical family. Personally, I was a big fan of Socrates. Superb attacking midfielder! But didn't Apollonius of Rhodes say "Η ψυχή ενός πλοίου βρίσκεται στην καρίνα"? 

 

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37 minutes ago, Timbo said:

At last a philosophical debate...Polly's husband you know...Phil O'Sophical, one of the old nautical Sophical family. Personally, I was a big fan of Socrates. Superb attacking midfielder! But didn't Apollonius of Rhodes say "Η ψυχή ενός πλοίου βρίσκεται στην καρίνα"? 

 

"The soul of a ship is in the keel";

I am not that clever,  just know Googlus Translatus. :default_biggrin:

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1 hour ago, Timbo said:

At last a philosophical debate...Polly's husband you know...Phil O'Sophical, one of the old nautical Sophical family. Personally, I was a big fan of Socrates. Superb attacking midfielder! But didn't Apollonius of Rhodes say "Η ψυχή ενός πλοίου βρίσκεται στην καρίνα"? 

 

No relation I might add despite the common name, our side of the O' Sophical family were very knowledgeable in matters of laying tarmac

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2 hours ago, Philosophical said:

No relation I might add despite the common name, our side of the O' Sophical family were very knowledgeable in matters of laying tarmac

Must have originated from Rhodes then!

:default_coat:

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Apparently the secret to good varnishing is keeping your brushes in linseed oil.

Is this something everybody else has always known? If it is then :default_coat: 

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Ahh, shameful admission.......! I buy cheap ones or foam, keep them from drying out between coats in corn starch bin bags then discard them. :ics_unifsmall:

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I buy cheap brushes as well but just put them in a jar of raw linseed oil to stop any drying out at the end of a varnishing session. When you're ready to start again just squeeze out the excess oil and the brush is as if you had just finished the last session.

I've got two brushes that I've  been using like this since May last year and even though they are really cheap brushes there is no sign that they will need to be binned any time soon.

Much better than cleaning after use - however well you think you've cleaned a brush there always seems to be specks of dried varnish hiding deep in the bristles!

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There's an awful lot of folklore and different opinion about varnishing, but here goes -    :default_hiding:

It is difficult to get a decent finish with a cheap brush, especially if it has been "wedged". If you buy a cheap one from a builder's merchant and pull apart the hairs, you will see a wooden wedge in the middle. This has been inserted so that the brush only needs a third as many hairs as if it were filled with them. That is why it is cheap!

A good brush will last you for donkeys' years if you look after it.

You will not get the best finish from a brand new brush. They are better when worn down a little to take the rough ends off the bristles.

I always bought Hamilton's paint brushes from Coopers in Yarmouth, who did their own brand version which was a little bit cheaper. They also did a very fancy special varnish brush, with an oval base, but I don't think they actually made much difference to the finish.

When I am painting a boat, I keep the brush, between coats, in a baked bean tin full of white spirit and then work it over the back of a door or somewhere, to get the white spirit out before re-use. If there is a bit left in the brush it will just dilute the paint a little, which is often a good thing! Some people drill a hole in the handle so that they can pass a wire through and hang the brush off the top of the tin. That way the bristles don't touch the bottom.

When you have finished the boat, wash the brush out in fresh white spirit until it looks clean and then wash it out again in warm water with lots of washing up liquid.

I don't keep brushes in linseed oil but I don't see why not! In the old days, the wood always got two coats of linseed, before you started varnishing.

Artists will usually smear their brushes with grease after cleaning. This will allow the hairs to keep their shape, without separating.

I don't use foam pads as I have never been able to get on with them. I don't think you can work the paint as well as with a brush. I believe though, that there are some 2 pack paints which you can only apply with foam, or by spraying.

One general, and very important point : a coat of paint or varnish is only ever as good as the surface you are applying it to. It is the preparation that counts!

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I've spent a considerable time researching and practising this varnishing malarkey and I use the 'Doug' method combined with the Timbo method which has resulted in the 'Dimbo Varnishing Method'TM. 

  • Sand new timbers and remove varnish from old timbers back to the wood
  • Vacuum away loose dust and use tack rags to remove surface dust
  • A quick wipe of the surface to be varnish with white spirit
  • Apply wood dye never a wood stain (wood stain is just liquid mud that sits on the surface of the wood)
  • Doug uses expensive varnish I use cheap (Jewish Yorkshireman what can I say) but I use Yacht Varnish guaranteed for outdoor use. There is a difference, check the tin. I did find that Screwfix and Wilco Yacht varnish had identical ingredients to some of the top brands but not the colour.
  • Thin the varnish for the first few coats. I start off really thin...about 50/50 and add varnish to my tin as the level lowers.
  • Apply with a foam roller for use with varnish. Cover a small area and then tip out the dimples left by the roller with a sponge brush...once again a foam that will take varnish.
  • Make sure you move fast enough to keep the edge of one section wet to blend with the next section but not so fast that you miss areas
  • I put on four coats before I think of denibbing so that I don't get back to the wood when the nibs come off.
  • Denibbing I do with wet and dry to start with following the grain of the wood.
  • Wipe down with tack cloth
  • Apply next coat.
  • Final Denib is done with 000 wire wool.
  • The final coats of varnish is thinned again...it adds a sheen to the varnish.

Walking around a boatshed with Doug is an education. At first glance, you spot what you think is a superb varnish job and then you spot the brush strokes. Now to my mind to get to Doug's level of varnish application is going to take a long time and a lot of practice. Whether the Dimbo Varnishing Method TM works on RT as well as it has on the father in laws' conservatory, forty foot shed and the various cabinets I've made for use in my home? 

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Thanks Vaughan and Timbo. Interesting reading. I have used both Epifanes and Ronseal outdoor, both have given good results but good old Ronseal has lasted better!

Is anyone using Danish Oil, if so, with what results.

Colin:default_beerchug:

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My Dad, who worked for a brush manufacturer for many years taught me a trick to identify good quality brushes: A good quality paint brush will stand on its bristles. I'm guessing that this is an indicator of the extent to which the brush has been bulked out with shorter bristles.

I've struggled to find any brushes that will do this in recent years - event the premier quality Hamilton natural bristle brushes don't seem to meet this quality standard any more.

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Blimey Timbo, Doug isn't going to like my efforts one bit!!!!:default_coat:

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31 minutes ago, Islander said:

Is anyone using Danish Oil, if so, with what results.

I tried Danish oil on some large outdoor wooden tubs on wheels, 6' x 3' x 2' I made for Ellie's garden. One made from pine, one made from western cedar and one made from hardwood scavenged from pallets, I think it's iroko but not sure. Each tub has a plastic inner tank to contain the soil. Erm...now then...erm...I applied the Danish Oil as per manufacturers instructions on one tub...applied a bit more on the second and bathed the third in the stuff. Within a month all of them were looking very much the worst for wear. Within five weeks Elie was asking me if I'd actually treated them with anything at all. After six weeks Ellie painted them bright green.
 

2 minutes ago, Polly said:

Blimey Timbo, Doug isn't going to like my efforts one bit!!!!:default_coat:

Ah you see, what I do Polly...when he get's that glint in his eye, you know that 'that Timbo is a right muppet, man made of band' look? I nip off to the shop and fetch him lunch, then I make him a coffee and when I've made a right 'bog up' I bring cake. Over the years that Mr Kipling bloke has made a fortune from me!

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The Maurice-Mynah method of varnishing.

1. Pour glass of wine.

2. Pay someone else to do the varnishing.

3. Drink wine.

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Thanks Timbo, I think I will stick to using it indoors but I do like the finish.

I will get back to sanding right back again when the weather improves.

Colin:default_winko:

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The Maurice-Mynah method of varnishing.
1. Pour glass of wine.
2. Pay someone else to do the varnishing.
3. Drink wine.


Similar ... pour beer or gin ... buy boat that doesn’t need varnishing.

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I used it on my workbench, on the sacrificial 1/2" ply, its given a good hard wearing surface, but doesnt stop the dirt. under the sacrificial ply I have decent 3/4" oak flooring.

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I have Deks Olje 1 on our dinghy it has been there with more or less annual quick once over refreshers since 2000 good stuff, no wood rot and still looks fine.

 

I have used le Tonkinois on cockpit locker doors and patchily on the mast, it's expensive and I have only found two UK suppliers,  but easy to use and organic. Jason tried it out for LBBY but said it lifted on their sample.

Our mast which now needs fully stripping is originally Coelan and this would seem to have lasted a good 10 years. It's like a plastic film on the wood, really, once you have covered the required number of coats; and costs a vast amount of money, but is very high performing.

Once I have used the last of my current stocks of good varnish, stored indoors for frost protection, I am off to B&Q for their marine varnish, which was very effective on Rondonay when we had her.

 

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Everybody has thier own take on varnishing, I have not found a decent brush that gives good results so use good quality foam brushes cheap one give poor results. Six coats of thinned Ravalak with natural turps good sand with 240 grit then 6 coats of Brava sanded between coats with the aim to get a flat finish. I have machine polished Brava with good results but wouldn’t on a large area.

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12 coats in all, crumbs no wonder your varnish looks amazing, as indeed it does.

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Operation varnish began today. Heat gun and scraper took off most of the varnish from one bunk support and I began the second. These need to be done and varnish sparkly by the time we head up to Martham so that Doug can use them to help structure the port side of the saloon. Then he will be able to give us the opposite pair to "'go and do likewise'.  In between whiles I have locker tops to work on, goodness knows what is on them, one candidate is Ronseal!

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Nice to see you are practicing before getting your hands on Royal Tudor  :default_icon_e_biggrin:

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Nope, I was using the heat gun as practice for cooking the bacon butties! :default_biggrin:

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Not looking forward to the vicarious varnishing the interior of Malanka I can tell you. A few spots need doing but doing the whole thing Aggghhhh the hours, the hours. Not mine you understand I'm with john in the wine department.

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