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16 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

 

Now I don't condone speeding in any manner but community spped check's don't create evidence that can be use , as I've previous said radar guns are need to be calibrated frequently as are the BA ones too are theses guns calibrated ? .

Education is what is required not vigilante's enforcement of the law is the police's job .

But isn't education the point? In my own case, a letter from the police as a result of a speed check, has made me think about my speed when I am driving.

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Dont forget far far safer vehicles,  better road surfaces in may places I'd say far more like the selfish, without thought for any one else but them selves Very very true its the easy op

Speed doesn't kill , but people who cant handle it do!....... When I learnt to drive the white circular disc with the diagonal black band indicated NO SPEED LIMIT ............ I'll agree most accident

I did imply, and I do believe that speeding up to avoid an incident is an unusual situation, but it does exist (no examples given as they only lead to arguments) If this means breaking the speed limit

23 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

Barbara Castle made it a permanent law in December 1967, but it was on trials from 22nd December 1965. Fact

I think people driving early E Types at 120mph on the M1 cemented the decision to reduce the speed limit to 70 mph.

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Whilst it's true that community speed checks don't create evidence to prosecute an individual driver, they do create data.

That data can then be provided to relevant bodies (police, safety camera partnership, county council highways dept, etc), as evidence that there is a problem with cars speeding on a particular stretch of road. That can be used by police to aid in targeting potential locations for mobile speed cameras, to the safety camera partnership for getting permanent speed cameras, or the highways dept for getting other traffic calming measures or changes to the speed limit.

Also, there's plenty of evidence that the presence of somebody in a hi-viz jacket pointing something that looks like a speed camera at traffic causes drivers to slow down, whether or not that person is a police officer.

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1 minute ago, Philosophical said:

I think people driving early E Types at 120mph on the M1 cemented the decision to reduce the speed limit to 70 mph.

Possibly but all the test runs were done in the very early morning if I remember correctly .

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54 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

 but if that had been the difference between stopping in time or running down a child then it would have been a painful thing to have to live with.

 

 

Just a 2 feet shorter stopping distance would be sufficient difference between stopping in time or running into someone.

Yes, exactly.

the stopping distance is made up of reaction time and braking distance. My reaction time is fixed (and probably deteriorating as i get older) the braking distance increases with speed somit is the speed part that causes the problem.

Now don't get me started on the shocking driving I see around the school gates when I take my kids to school.

I had the joy of driving up and down the A140 yesterday. There are so many times that I will follow someone that drives at about 45mph all the way along that road, regardless of the speed limit, be it 60, 50 or even 30mph. No doubt they would be convinced that they are a safe driver because thay only ever drive at 45.

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20 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

When my kids were little before school age, they were taught to look both ways and then left again before crossing. What makes people think that kids need to be molly coddled, mind a lot of parents these days need to be or they end up dead through no common sense. H/S is its own worst enemy. I could go on and on but I wont.

Going back to the OP how many accidents do these vigilantes cause by making people brake hard causing crashes. Ah cos they dont bother with them stats do they?????

When we were kids we were taught that the road is a dangerous place and a car will hurt you if it hits you. 

Who can remember the "Tufty Club"?  

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36 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

I do believe the original question was what powers does a community speed check have , and the answer is very little .

10 yrs or so back I was dam nearly taken out by a range rover in a built up 30 mph area , had it not been for a police officer parked on the corner of a side street she would have probably got away with her offences which in court read , failing to stop at a red traffic light , using a mobile device while driving and excessive speed which the officer claimed at around 50 mph , had that been a pedestrian with even a photo of the incident I very much doubt it would have even got to court , and here's the best bit she had he two children in the back of the vehicle , sure she got heavily fined and receive  a 6 month ban but the fact is without the assistance of the police and relying on the public she would have most likely got off Scot free .

Now I don't condone speeding in any manner but community spped check's don't create evidence that can be use , as I've previous said radar guns are need to be calibrated frequently as are the BA ones too are theses guns calibrated ? .

Education is what is required not vigilante's enforcement of the law is the police's job .

Ricardo, I was driving round a roundabout when someone pulled onto it right in front of me - he then chased me to the supermarket and had a go at me for nearly hitting him and endangering his kids in the back. I think he was going to pick a fight, but then all 6 foot 4 of me got out of the car and he decided to back off.

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17 minutes ago, Davydine said:

But isn't education the point? In my own case, a letter from the police as a result of a speed check, has made me think about my speed when I am driving.

OK but who's educating the community speed check people ,are they doing this with the convent of the authorities ie the police ? I'll bet if yiu drove through half these areas you will find illegally and badly parked cars some of which will be owned by residents , this contributes dramatically to accident levels as anyone who has tried to get out of the rush cutters car park on a busy day and that's with the protection of a car ! Pedestrians don't stand a chance other than to walk long distances to the nearest recognised crossing and even then you take your life in your hands expecting people to recognise they are obliged to stop .

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1 minute ago, grendel said:

me - my mum used to make the puppets for my school - there was a badger who was a policeman

Would not be allowed today, the badger would have to be a "gender neutral police person".

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10 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

I think people driving early E Types at 120mph on the M1 cemented the decision to reduce the speed limit to 70 mph.

Actually I believe it was the Aston Martin Le Mans team testing racing cars,   which handily was just a couple of miles from the M1.

 

I pass 4 schools every day, after work, during kicking out time. The biggest problems are,

The parents opening car doors,

The parents dragging their kids through the traffic to the cars,

The parents trying to all park at the school gates,

The parents thinking road humps (platform type) are pedestrian crossings..

 

Ps I was a member of the Tufty club ... 1962?

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10 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

OK but who's educating the community speed check people ,are they doing this with the convent of the authorities ie the police ? I'll bet if yiu drove through half these areas you will find illegally and badly parked cars some of which will be owned by residents , this contributes dramatically to accident levels as anyone who has tried to get out of the rush cutters car park on a busy day and that's with the protection of a car ! Pedestrians don't stand a chance other than to walk long distances to the nearest recognised crossing and even then you take your life in your hands expecting people to recognise they are obliged to stop .

I believe they are trained by the neighbourhood policing team and work in conjunction with them.

Completely agree, with more cars on the road parking is an absolute nightmare in both towns and villages. It's not helped when new housing is built with no garages and drives big enough for one car, forcing people to park on roads and pavements. Sometimes badly, sometimes illegally, sometimes both!

If you mean The Rushcutters at Thorpe then yes, I know what you mean, which is why I always try to arrive by boat....

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27 minutes ago, Davydine said:

Now don't get me started on the shocking driving I see around the school gates when I take my kids to school.

Well if you and others did like I did as a kid and as my children did, and that was to walk to school, then problem solved. Have kids lost the ability to walk these days, it sure feels like they have to me.

27 minutes ago, Davydine said:

had the joy of driving up and down the A140 yesterday. There are so many times that I will follow someone that drives at about 45mph all the way along that road, regardless of the speed limit, be it 60, 50 or even 30mph. No doubt they would be convinced that they are a safe driver because thay only ever drive at 45.

 

31 minutes ago, teadaemon said:

That data can then be provided to relevant bodies (police, safety camera partnership, county council highways dept, etc), as evidence that there is a problem with cars speeding on a particular stretch of road. That can be used by police to aid in targeting potential locations for mobile speed cameras, to the safety camera partnership for getting permanent speed cameras, or the highways dept for getting other traffic calming measures or changes to the speed limit.

But that data isn't accurate, as are the guns calibrated at the start of each shift, are these amateurs in fact qualified to use a speed gun?????

Big brother has far more cameras on us than is healthy, and your giving them ideas for even more

28 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

When we were kids we were taught that the road is a dangerous place and a car will hurt you if it hits you. 

Who can remember the "Tufty Club"?  

So very true, and then in infants PC Show, came and tested kids of 5ish to make sure they knew the dangers of the roads.

Tufty club way after my time

19 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

OK but who's educating the community speed check people ,are they doing this with the convent of the authorities ie the police ? I'll bet if yiu drove through half these areas you will find illegally and badly parked cars some of which will be owned by residents , this contributes dramatically to accident levels

Yes it is the bad parking outside schools, why are mothers in 4x4 exempt from stopping on the zig zags????? Are the people using these cameras causing a hazard to drivers with their parking. What about people in said built up areas causing accidents outside of their drive because being lazy they drive in, and then have to make the dangerous maneuver of reversing out, onto the main drag.

15 minutes ago, TheQ said:

I pass 4 schools every day, after work, during kicking out time. The biggest problems are,

The parents opening car doors,

The parents dragging their kids through the traffic to the cars,

The parents trying to all park at the school gates,

The parents thinking road humps (platform type) are pedestrian crossings..

Exactly Q

I could go on and on but I am not going to as this is making me get angry now, never realised, how driving licences can now be dished out like sweets so the little darings dont have to walk to school etc etc etc.

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5 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

 

But that data isn't accurate, as are the guns calibrated at the start of each shift, are these amateurs in fact qualified to use a speed gun?????

Big brother has far more cameras on us than is healthy, and your giving them ideas for even more

As others have said, volunteers are trained by the police, and I would presume that training would include properly calibrating the equipment to an appropriate standard.

I should probably have mentioned, I'm a councillor on Costessey Town Council. My fellow councillors and I spend a fair amount of our time on speeding and other highways issues, because they're one of the most common things for our constituents to contact us about, and our job is to represent our constituents to the best of our abilities. We don't have volunteers with speed guns, but we do have a small camera system that can be moved around and attached to items of street furniture to log the speed of all vehicles passing. For data collection that has the advantage of not needing a person to operate it, and it has produced some particularly scary figures. 

If it makes you feel better, we also get plenty of complaints about bad parking around schools, and we try to do our best to deal with those too.

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1 hour ago, Bound2Please said:

I can assure it was a no speed limiit sign if I remember correctly it changed to 70MPH in about 1969. The 60mph for it came in much much more recently

Having googled it, all roads were first made subject to a max of 70mph in July 1967. It looks like there were several changes during the 70s resulting in a permanent 60 on single carriageway roads in 1977. I guess being younger I only remember the more recent limits.....:default_norty:

Going back to the original post, there will always be drivers who will speed regardless of anything done to discourage them. Just like those who will continue to use a mobile phone whilst at the wheel. However, if a Community Speed Watch happens to deter just one or two drivers, that’s got to be good hasn’t it?

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1 hour ago, Bound2Please said:

Well if you and others did like I did as a kid and as my children did, and that was to walk to school, then problem solved. Have kids lost the ability to walk these days, it sure feels like they have to me.

 

Sadly you don't always get the choice ....... some people don't get their 1st choice school (maybe walkable) and have to settle for 2nd or 3rd choice which maybe a bit too far for tiny legs.

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I would say a big fat zero , 

it's nothing to do with be molly coddled  or h/s there's j is a serious bad bend through Salhouse and have seen cars, vans also the big lorries mount the pavement many times through going too fast at this point.  The air ambulance was at the roundabout again a few weeks ago at Norwich road / Salhouse junction with a motor bike going too fast and didn't stop in time, Motor bikes regularly go speed in excess of  80mph racing down the road.

John 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bound2Please said:

Well if you and others did like I did as a kid and as my children did, and that was to walk to school, then problem solved. Have kids lost the ability to walk these days, it sure feels like they have to me.

 

 

The danger of making assumptions. Who said I drive my kids to school?

We walk, every day, unless we ride our bikes.

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26 minutes ago, Jbx5 said:

I would say a big fat zero , 

it's nothing to do with be molly coddled  or h/s there's j is a serious bad bend through Salhouse and have seen cars, vans also the big lorries mount the pavement many times through going too fast at this point.  The air ambulance was at the roundabout again a few weeks ago at Norwich road / Salhouse junction with a motor bike going too fast and didn't stop in time, Motor bikes regularly go speed in excess of  80mph racing down the road.

John 

 

 

I was taking in general not specific to salhouse. Also if I had my way all parking would be banned within a 2 mile radius of ALL schools schools during school time half an hour before start time and the same at home time, and it should be randomly enforced with a 1000 pound fine for failure to obey, that should sort it.

Im talking all schools in the UK not just one school street. I used to walk/ride in excess of 4 miles daily, never done me any harm as a kid or teenager

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Yes their presence does make people slow down but it was the proximity to the 30mph sign I thought was wrong, they would have been better further up the road as pointing it at cars before the limit just means a bigger list of numbers to hand to the police.

Doug.

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"In 2016, car occupants accounted for 46 per cent of road deaths, pedestrians 25 per cent, pedal cyclists 6 per cent and motorcyclists 18 per cent. The number of car occupant fatalities increased to 816, up 8 per cent compared with 754 in 2015; the number of pedestrian deaths increased to 448, up 10 per cent from 408 in 2015; the number of pedal cyclists killed increased to 102, up 2 per cent from 100 in 2014; but the number of motorcycle users killed decreased by 13 per cent from 365 in 2015 to 319 in 2016. "

"60 per cent of all fatalities occur on country roads

Three people die each day on average on country roads and the number of people killed on country roads is nearly 10 times higher than on motorways. In 2014, there were 1,040 fatalities and 9,051 serious injuries on country roads. A third of the fatalities occurred on a bend.

 

The above facts are for information, it might shock some to see how many people die on our roads, hopefully it will make some think.

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2 hours ago, Ricardo said:

OK but who's educating the community speed check people

Good point Ricardo!

We have had a spate of vigilante parish councils in Lincolnshire recently which has ended abruptly with an accident. Some clown with a speed gun bought on eBay for ninety quid, stepped into the road to point his speed gun at an approaching car. He stepped in front of a cyclist who had to swerve to miss him and was clipped by the oncoming car. The car was not speeding. The cyclist has a broken pelvis, leg, skull fractures and broken wrist. An accident caused by an unqualified interfering busybody.

We have highly trained, dedicated, and underpaid, police officers whose job it is to police the laws of this country. As citizens, it is our job to obey the law, teach our children to obey the law, support our police officers and make sure our policemen and women have the resources and financial rewards required to do their job safely and to the high standards that they hold themselves.  Simple. No eBay required.

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I remember walking just over a mile to school at my infants school and a mile back in the afternoon, my primary school was about the same and I struck lucky with my secondary school at 1/2 mile walk - but I used to go home for dinners from there so still 2 miles a day.

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Only primary and secondary schools  existed when / where I was at school. All distances one way.

First primary school 3.7 miles, so bus..

Second primary school lower site, 900 yards, walked

Second primary school upper site , 400 yards walked, but we had to walk to the lower site and back in classes for dinner.

First secondary school,  1.5 miles walked or biked.

Second secondary school, 15 miles on another island, bus. ( Yes there was a causeway between the islands)

Third secondary school, car 1 hour, ferry 3 hours, bus 2 hours, ferry 10 minutes, train 2.5 hours, bus 15 minutes. And reverse to go home ( end of term only.).   However from the council school hostel 1.5 miles to the school Walked.

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3 hours ago, Davydine said:

The danger of making assumptions. Who said I drive my kids to school?

We walk, every day, unless we ride our bikes.

We weren't allowed to ride bikes to school till we had passed the Cycling Proficiency Test

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