Community Speed Watch

[Davydine]

1 hour ago, Philosophical said:

We weren't allowed to ride bikes to school till we had passed the Cycling Proficiency Test

Me too! They do have something similar in our school for the older children. I certainly wouldn't let them cycle alone and we have a cycle path almost door to door, we are very lucky really.

[JohnK]

I have noticed recently that more and more Comunity Speed Watch areas appearing, does any one know what powers these people have.
There was one yesterday in Salhouse but where standing only a 100 yards or so from the 30 mph sign and seem to be writing down every cars number as it passed.
Doug.

I’ve had a letter from the police because I was speeding through a village according to a community speed check.
I would have been a lot more convinced of the value of this if they’d been near the school in the village. But they were hidden next to the end of speed limit sign at the end of the village, past the last house, where there’s no footpath and downhill from the canal bridge. Clearly just trying to collect as many numbers from speeders as possible. Not saying they all do that but “mine” certainly were.


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[Matt]

I believe they are trained by the neighbourhood policing team and work in conjunction with them.
Completely agree, with more cars on the road parking is an absolute nightmare in both towns and villages. It's not helped when new housing is built with no garages and drives big enough for one car, forcing people to park on roads and pavements. Sometimes badly, sometimes illegally, sometimes both!
If you mean The Rushcutters at Thorpe then yes, I know what you mean, which is why I always try to arrive by boat....

The ones I am aware of are in conjunction with the local police team.

And certainly where I live parking has been decriminalised meaning the police have little powers and it is all down to the council to enforce.


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[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Davydine said:

Me too! They do have something similar in our school for the older children. I certainly wouldn't let them cycle alone and we have a cycle path almost door to door, we are very lucky really.

Sadly I think the roads are a lot more dangerous today than they were in the '60's and '70's, a combination of bigger faster heavier vehicles, a lot more vehicles, more traffic signs signals and necessary distractions. plus of course the additional distractions of in car tv screens; only legal since they display "information" but just as attention diverting as watching a regular TV.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

 

The ones I am aware of are in conjunction with the local police team.

And certainly where I live parking has been decriminalised meaning the police have little powers and it is all down to the council to enforce.


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Well in that case then high time the council took an interest in all areas that suffer bad parking ( not saying that I happens where you are ) but if there was a fatality god forbid but would the fact that the police are no longer interested in it put them in court as well as the council , thing is its too easy to wash your hands of certain problems but siuld the do da hit the fan it most certainly will stick , bad parking or is it lazy parking or just plain selfish parking .

[rightsaidfred]

Unfortunately I am old enough to remember the introduction of the 70mph limit it wasn`t just one manufacturer, Rover and Cosworth were two others equally responsible, it should also be remembered that at that time cars were mechanically far inferior to todays cars.

The biggest problem here is so much emphasis is put on speed partially because its become a PC football and partially as its an easy way to produce revenue for various authorities that the real problem of catching those responsible for dangerous driving and people driving without a licence insurance etc has become secondary through lack of coppers on the road, most of those that do patrol are in unmarked cars to catch the unwary speeder rather than improve road safety overall.

Fred

[Bound2Please]

7 hours ago, Philosophical said:

 a combination of bigger faster heavier vehicles,

Dont forget far far safer vehicles,  better road surfaces in may places

7 hours ago, Ricardo said:

bad parking or is it lazy parking or just plain selfish parking .

I'd say far more like the selfish, without thought for any one else but them selves

7 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

The biggest problem here is so much emphasis is put on speed partially because its become a PC football and partially as its an easy way to produce revenue for various authorities that the real problem of catching those responsible for dangerous driving and people driving without a licence insurance etc has become secondary through lack of coppers on the road, most of those that do patrol are in unmarked cars to catch the unwary speeder rather than improve road safety overall.

Very very true its the easy option, and while it gathers revenue, the authorities will not want it changed. Far to many people, on this speed kills band wagon. Who remembers, the no skid lid riding of motor bikes?, who remembers when it wasnt law to wear seat belts?. I sure do and when the white disc with black line really did mean no speed limit, mind not many cars in the 60's/70's would do 70mph then. (Were more people actually killed then, (and dont give me stats, they can be manipulated to suit the person quoting them.) I can say that when I was an apprentice in the 60's when we road tested a car after service/repair, going up the avenue even in a new car50mph would be the maximum you could get. Only last week in out old car, I got 85mph with no trouble without realising it..

No the problem is not speed it is bad driving, to many distractions, both in car and outside. Why do we need all these signs, I dont see any in the sky (this way New York) aircraft manage, mind they are well trained I'm glad to say, unlike the majority of road users. There is no need for so many signs if any on the roads. Also a very large proportion of the population, believing that these things are put in place, to keep them safe, when in reality these things are only done to gather revenue, nothing about safety.  ...

[L8DAVE]

21 hours ago, Timbo said:

Good point Ricardo!

We have had a spate of vigilante parish councils in Lincolnshire recently which has ended abruptly with an accident. Some clown with a speed gun bought on eBay for ninety quid, stepped into the road to point his speed gun at an approaching car. He stepped in front of a cyclist who had to swerve to miss him and was clipped by the oncoming car. The car was not speeding. The cyclist has a broken pelvis, leg, skull fractures and broken wrist. An accident caused by an unqualified interfering busybody.

We have highly trained, dedicated, and underpaid, police officers whose job it is to police the laws of this country. As citizens, it is our job to obey the law, teach our children to obey the law, support our police officers and make sure our policemen and women have the resources and financial rewards required to do their job safely and to the high standards that they hold themselves.  Simple. No eBay required.

As the saying goes " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing " ..... Or in this case " No knowledge " 

[WherryNice]

On the subject of stopping distances how many people are aware of the affect tyres have on them? Cheap budget tyres and tyres that are below 3mm of tread will increase stopping distance quite markedly (more in the wet in the case of the low tread).

[BroadAmbition]

And just how many of us, me included, spend far too much time watching the speedometer / satnav making oh so sure we don't stray just a few mph over the stated limit instead of paying full attention to other road users, pedestrians and the actual road!

Safety cameras my backside - revenue raisers in reality

Griff

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

And just how many of us, me included, spend far too much time watching the speedometer / satnav making oh so sure we don't stray just a few mph over the stated limit instead of paying full attention to other road users, pedestrians and the actual road!

Safety cameras my backside - revenue raisers in reality

Griff

Some cars have variable speed limiters (not cruise control), look at the speedo once and set the limiter to the speed you don't want to exceed and you are free to drive up to that set speed knowing that the car will not exceed it.

If safety cameras were indeed safety cameras they would all be sited at;

Known accident blackspots, close to schools, hospitals etc. not on open roads where the only hazard is the speed camera. 

[grendel]

9 hours ago, Philosophical said:

not on open roads where the only hazard is the speed camera. 

where the only hazard is the car in front spotting the camera and hitting the brakes hard to slow down, I wonder how many speed cameras have caused accidents by people trying to slow down for them. most people will dab their brakes on when they see them, even if they are well under the speed limit.

[batrabill]

Of course speed kills. 

If a pedestrian is hit by a car at 30mph they have a chance in the 40-50% region of being killed. Studies vary.

If they get hit at 40mph they have an 80-90% chance.

These are not ‘statistics that can be manipulated’ - they are facts. If you can produce better facts then do so.

If all speed limits were lowered by 10mph then quite a few people would not die. 

We collectively decide what level of carnage we are happy with. 

If people want to point speed cameras at me then good for them. Modern cars are absurdly fast and being reminded that you are in several tons of lethal weapon is good for us all. 

[MauriceMynah]

10 hours ago, Philosophical said:

Some cars have variable speed limiters (not cruise control), look at the speedo once and set the limiter to the speed you don't want to exceed and you are free to drive up to that set speed knowing that the car will not exceed it.

That sounds pretty dangerous to me. There are occasions where speeding for a short period will be the safer option over braking. Not often I grant you, but it can happen. Having a device that takes control over your driving is still not safe...yet!

[rightsaidfred]

8 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

That sounds pretty dangerous to me. There are occasions where speeding for a short period will be the safer option over braking. Not often I grant you, but it can happen. Having a device that takes control over your driving is still not safe...yet!

Fully agree MM they are also pretty useless in areas where the speed limit continually changes, we are getting to the stage now where using technology is becoming an excuse for not learning and maintaining driving skills, ABS while good has encouraged people to ignore safe braking principles, all the various parking alarms etc mean to many people don't bother to know their vehicles dimensions anymore as when witnessed when they refuse to go through a space with a foot or more to spare, I could go on, there is no excuse for bad driving be it at 10mph or 100mph.

Fred

[Guest ExMemberKingFisher]

14 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

That sounds pretty dangerous to me. There are occasions where speeding for a short period will be the safer option over braking. Not often I grant you, but it can happen. Having a device that takes control over your driving is still not safe...yet!

I believe some of the new Fords have that system, but fear not, they have thought of everything. If you try to exceed the set speed limit it will starve the engine of fuel to slow you down, rather than braking. If you really need to speed and over ride the system for any reason, a quick stab on the accelerator disables the system for a while. I can see a situation where you are overtaking someone and they decide to suddenly speed up leaving you stranded alongside them and suddenly reaching the speed limiter, but at least you can still complete the overtake even if forced to speed and disable the system.

[Regulo]

All this talk of bad driving - get a dashcam and submit any examples of dangerous or illegal driving to the police. They WILL prosecute with evidence. The cheap dashcams are useless, the police want clear footage of car make, colour and registration. I'm not saying become vigilantes, minor transgressions, sadly, are the norm, but seriously dangerous stuff needs stopping. Perhaps new vehicles should be fitted with tamper-proof cameras that record permanently. That would be better than all the "connectivity" being offered to the masses nowadays. Which results in inattention to the task in hand - getting safely from A to B.

[Bound2Please]

22 minutes ago, Regulo said:

All this talk of bad driving - get a dashcam and submit any examples of dangerous or illegal driving to the police. They WILL prosecute with evidence. The cheap dashcams are useless, the police want clear footage of car make, colour and registration. I'm not saying become vigilantes, minor transgressions, sadly, are the norm, but seriously dangerous stuff needs stopping. Perhaps new vehicles should be fitted with tamper-proof cameras that record permanently. That would be better than all the "connectivity" being offered to the masses nowadays. Which results in inattention to the task in hand - getting safely from A to B.

Things you are stating here, is just why the police resources are being lost to DIY policing. I prefer to see police actively employed to do this. Next it will be ah tell us send filmed evidence in of that murder in your street, then we can have even smaller police forces. Oh sill me no forget the murder in your street it wont gather revenue will it.

Charlie

[Regulo]

Agreed, Charlie. But we both know that's the way policing is heading, whether we like it or not. If the police can't commit resources to the roads, something needs to be done, or there will be even more mayhem out there. I know it stinks of BIg Brother, but if we all thought we were being watched all the time on the roads, perhaps we'd behave more considerately? Not sure what the long-term answer is.

[smellyloo]

47 minutes ago, Regulo said:

Not sure what the long-term answer is.

Perhaps ..... one day ............ we will all become less selfish and think of others rather than our own self interest.

Imagine if Mr Lenon could write a song about it ..... what would it say?

[Davydine]

The original post was about community speed watch, but inevitably the thread has drifted towards speed cameras, policing and revenue generation.

As has been said, several times, the community speedwatch volunteers are trained by the police and all that will happen if you are caught is a letter on Police headed paper. Clearly this is NOT revenue generation, is minimal cost to the police and indeed it frees up precious police resources to work on other crimes. We all know that the police are under resourced, but money is tight. I would be happy to pay a bit more tax if you could guarantee it would be spent wisely. Of course, if some idiot has bought a speed gun and is trying to trap people and causes an accident as described earlier in the thread then they deserve to be prosecuted. 

Several people have suggested that speed doesn't kill, and that bad driving is to blame. Well, surely exceeding the speed limit IS bad driving. You may be able to twist statistics but you canny change the laws of physics a car traveling faster is harder to stop and will do more damage if it hits you. Speed in its self may be ok but inappropriate speed is not.

There may well be an argument for increasing the limits on motorways and on a relativly clear motorway in good weather you could probably argue that 100mph is relatively safe, but surely, given all of the examples of bad parking / driving then even 30mph could be too fast in a built up area.

I suspect that really we all want the same thing, safety on the roads. Is that really such a bad thing?

[rightsaidfred]

Regulo

While I appreciate your comment is well intentioned if I took your advice literally and reported every instance I come across here daily I would have a permanent line of communication open to the police, I am not and do not see myself as a part time police officer, my life now days is fully occupied enjoying what time I have left on this planet.

Fred

[MauriceMynah]

2 hours ago, Regulo said:

I'm not saying become vigilantes, minor transgressions, sadly, are the norm, but seriously dangerous stuff needs stopping.

 

4 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

if I took your advice literally and reported every instance I come across here daily I would have a permanent line of communication open to the police,

RSF, no, I think you need to re-read the bit I've quoted here.

[rightsaidfred]

No MM I am talking about dangerous driving not minor transgressions, in London it has become the norm with countless people who have no concern for others, red light jumping, queue jumping on the wrong side of the road, pulling out of side turnings without stopping, cutting up on roundabouts ad infinitum  that's without those with no license etc.

Fred

PS that doesn't include those  that undertake etc on Motorways or dual carriageways.

[dnks34]

17 hours ago, WherryNice said:

On the subject of stopping distances how many people are aware of the affect tyres have on them? Cheap budget tyres and tyres that are below 3mm of tread will increase stopping distance quite markedly (more in the wet in the case of the low tread).

Not always the case, budget tyres can be as good as and in some cases have out performed the premium branded tyres, anyone who says budget tyres are a false economy are usually brainwashed and mostly incorrect!!

I purchased my car with conti sports fitted and the rears lasted less than 10000 miles.  My second older car gets fitted with budgets, not the cheapest available but they are still budget and I get 15-20k miles from them easily.

Despite what industry experts would have you believe in my opinion its far from an exact science and budget/mid range can be just as good, and if you dont do much mileage its probably a no brainer.  

Why have £125 a corner sat on your drive only going to morrisons twice a week!!!