Independence - Updates | Maintenance & Care

[scaniaman]

All sing together "Around the fastnet griff will go,Doo Da, doo da.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Norfolk,  Virginia.  USA. 

Even a Broom Skipper would probably consume £3,000 for fuel from there.

[diesel falcon]

However there could be a seal on the turbo that has let some oil pass where it is not meant - 

Maybe or more likely the seal has, but as you have just worked the engine,s maybe harder than they ever have been,in the past ,you could find that youhave "run the seals back in" and the oil on the filters ect is the residue of this process, trust me if you had a turbo oil seal go you would not see behind the boat!!., 007 smoke screens would look like toys!!

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, diesel falcon said:

However there could be a seal on the turbo that has let some oil pass where it is not meant - 

Maybe or more likely the seal has, but as you have just worked the engine,s maybe harder than they ever have been,in the past ,you could find that youhave "run the seals back in" and the oil on the filters ect is the residue of this process, trust me if you had a turbo oil seal go you would not see behind the boat!!., 007 smoke screens would look like toys!!

I recall when we "blew a turbo" on a Detroit Diesel 149 series (1750 HP). It was like a destroyer laying smoke. 

[finny]

Turbo's really work hard they should warmed up prior to setting off and then idling down for a while before shut down - Mr Falcon speaks wisely 

Finny 

[grendel]

I seem to recall on the trip onboard MTB102, their main complaint was that the turbos oiled up when run for extended periods on tickover, apart from the grins on the faces of the crews after the high speed runs, there was the incident when smoke started billowing from the engine room, when the turbos got up to temperature and burnt off the oil, plus the great gob of black oil the exhaust spit out as we parted company with the RN ships at full throttle. the result after the runs was nice clean dry turbos.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, grendel said:

I seem to recall on the trip onboard MTB102, their main complaint was that the turbos oiled up when run for extended periods on tickover, apart from the grins on the faces of the crews after the high speed runs, there was the incident when smoke started billowing from the engine room, when the turbos got up to temperature and burnt off the oil, plus the great gob of black oil the exhaust spit out as we parted company with the RN ships at full throttle. the result after the runs was nice clean dry turbos.

Some engines used to feed the crankcase breather into the air filter or on the intake side of the turbo, so extended use without the turbo's working would result in a build up of oil till the turbo were made to work a bit and the residue was burnt away

[diesel falcon]

4 minutes ago, grendel said:

I seem to recall on the trip onboard MTB102, their main complaint was that the turbos oiled up when run for extended periods on tickover, apart from the grins on the faces of the crews after the high speed runs, there was the incident when smoke started billowing from the engine room, when the turbos got up to temperature and burnt off the oil, plus the great gob of black oil the exhaust spit out as we parted company with the RN ships at full throttle. the result after the runs was nice clean dry turbos.

spot on , mtb 102 is now restricted ,so a full throttle would do this,  as the blocks must be worn ,kid gloves1

 

[quo vadis]

26 minutes ago, finny said:

Turbo's really work hard they should warmed up prior to setting off and then idling down for a while before shut down - Mr Falcon speaks wisely 

Finny 

That's a first

[LondonRascal]

As I say having removed the filter and looked into to intake they are in good shape. I am sure a bit of cleaning would not be detrimental but there is certainly no yucky oil laying about as I have seen in some photos and the smoke from exhausts is just not the right amount or colour to suggest oil is being burnt.

When we were making the trip we always insured the engine was run up for a good while prior to slipping and likewise once we were alongside she idled for a while and then I would extract waste heat from the engine room with the two high velocity fans so things were not let to heat soak too much generally.

The ZF Micro Commander heads are said to be full sealed - from above, under them though they are exposed. The upper helm station gets very wet with condensation that builds up under the helm moulding so It seems amazing that at fitting they did not make any attempt to seal the circuit and wiring on the underside of the commander head unit here. The interior helm of course is less of an issue. In the engine room the controller boxes are in sealed enclosures but here again there are some basic things where I found some of the wire glands loose and not tight to prevent moisture getting in. Overall it is a very expensive system that I am not sure was installed to the best standards and that may be coming home to roost now. Just the controllers -= no cables and no command stations for a twin engine set up is £7,000.00 - add on the breaker boxers, cabling, and commanders and you easily go over £10,000.00 for a new system and that is just to buy the items. Now I am no expert but I have an inkling it would not cost thousands to have some old fashion Morse heads, and Boden cables run - sure would be hard getting the cables run from the fly bridge in the right way and without too much of a tight curve but if it starts to go up and up chasing electrical gremlins that only present themselves some of the time I may well see about that.

I just cannot move the boat with things how they are - can you imagine trying to slowly turn the boat in the Marina and one of my engines decides all by itself to rev up to 1,500 RPM - by the time you've hit the stop button the damage would likely already have been done and it would not just be a little bump.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

As I say having removed the filter and looked into to intake they are in good shape. I am sure a bit of cleaning would not be detrimental but there is certainly no yucky oil laying about as I have seen in some photos and the smoke from exhausts is just not the right amount or colour to suggest oil is being burnt.

When we were making the trip we always insured the engine was run up for a good while prior to slipping and likewise once we were alongside she idled for a while and then I would extract waste heat from the engine room with the two high velocity fans so things were not let to heat soak too much generally.

The ZF Micro Commander heads are said to be full sealed - from above, under them though they are exposed. The upper helm station gets very wet with condensation that builds up under the helm moulding so It seems amazing that at fitting they did not make any attempt to seal the circuit and wiring on the underside of the commander head unit here. The interior helm of course is less of an issue. In the engine room the controller boxes are in sealed enclosures but here again there are some basic things where I found some of the wire glands loose and not tight to prevent moisture getting in. Overall it is a very expensive system that I am not sure was installed to the best standards and that may be coming home to roost now. Just the controllers -= no cables and no command stations for a twin engine set up is £7,000.00 - add on the breaker boxers, cabling, and commanders and you easily go over £10,000.00 for a new system and that is just to buy the items. Now I am no expert but I have an inkling it would not cost thousands to have some old fashion Morse heads, and Boden cables run - sure would be hard getting the cables run from the fly bridge in the right way and without too much of a tight curve but if it starts to go up and up chasing electrical gremlins that only present themselves some of the time I may well see about that.

I just cannot move the boat with things how they are - can you imagine trying to slowly turn the boat in the Marina and one of my engines decides all by itself to rev up to 1,500 RPM - by the time you've hit the stop button the damage would likely already have been done and it would not just be a little bump.

As much as this will be seen as advice its more common sense , , get 2x Morse controllers , the associated dual helm unit and appropriate cables installed by nya and enjoy trouble free boating .

Smoke wise the colour tells you where to look  and there are only 3 colours , Blue, white/grey , black all of which point the finger to different aspects of an engine problem .

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

As I say having removed the filter and looked into to intake they are in good shape. I am sure a bit of cleaning would not be detrimental but there is certainly no yucky oil laying about as I have seen in some photos and the smoke from exhausts is just not the right amount or colour to suggest oil is being burnt.

When we were making the trip we always insured the engine was run up for a good while prior to slipping and likewise once we were alongside she idled for a while and then I would extract waste heat from the engine room with the two high velocity fans so things were not let to heat soak too much generally.

The ZF Micro Commander heads are said to be full sealed - from above, under them though they are exposed. The upper helm station gets very wet with condensation that builds up under the helm moulding so It seems amazing that at fitting they did not make any attempt to seal the circuit and wiring on the underside of the commander head unit here. The interior helm of course is less of an issue. In the engine room the controller boxes are in sealed enclosures but here again there are some basic things where I found some of the wire glands loose and not tight to prevent moisture getting in. Overall it is a very expensive system that I am not sure was installed to the best standards and that may be coming home to roost now. Just the controllers -= no cables and no command stations for a twin engine set up is £7,000.00 - add on the breaker boxers, cabling, and commanders and you easily go over £10,000.00 for a new system and that is just to buy the items. Now I am no expert but I have an inkling it would not cost thousands to have some old fashion Morse heads, and Boden cables run - sure would be hard getting the cables run from the fly bridge in the right way and without too much of a tight curve but if it starts to go up and up chasing electrical gremlins that only present themselves some of the time I may well see about that.

I just cannot move the boat with things how they are - can you imagine trying to slowly turn the boat in the Marina and one of my engines decides all by itself to rev up to 1,500 RPM - by the time you've hit the stop button the damage would likely already have been done and it would not just be a little bump.

I just cannot move the boat with things how they are - can you imagine trying to slowly turn the boat in the Marina and one of my engines decides all by itself to rev up to 1,500 RPM - by the time you've hit the stop button the damage would likely already have been done and it would not just be a little bump.

A very responsible decision.

[diesel falcon]

hi,

does your system give any fault codes , ? you should surly be able to look what,s wrong up in the manual/installation guide,, if you can see the display,i have to do this most days on modern boilers, if you have the manual ?

[Londonlad1985]

3 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

Oh and in other news...Today I put an offer in on another boat. New thread to follow and more information in due course,  but let me see how things progress before I go public with the details just yet.

Excellent! Well why not!, I expect this news to fully break the internet. #boataddict

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

As much as this will be seen as advice its more common sense , , get 2x Morse controllers , the associated dual helm unit and appropriate cables installed by nya and enjoy trouble free boating .

Smoke wise the colour tells you where to look  and there are only 3 colours , Blue, white/grey , black all of which point the finger to different aspects of an engine problem .

True: the clue is in the colour of the smoke.

I have these short stubby electronic levers and I really miss that reassuring "click" of the Morse control, and I certainly don't miss the delay. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

True: the clue is in the colour of the smoke.

I have these short stubby electronic levers and I really miss that reassuring "click" of the Morse control, and I certainly don't miss the delay. 

Delay what is this delay you speak of my antique period side mounted Morse is instant n short n stubby these days , its original lever was longer than my granddad's old walking stick , that said my click is more of a reassuring clunk 

[LondonRascal]

Quote

...Does your system give any fault codes...

I wish it did, but no it does not - so as far as the controllers go they are 'seeing' everything coming into them as being on the ball and reacting as they should be. In laymen terms what is causing the issues seems to be at the control head not at the control computer that then moves the actuators to in turn move the throttle cable and thus the engine throttle.

As for the manual well here it is, note just a light read lol ZF-Microcommand-user-manual.pdf

Although we have 'dialled out' the delay it still is evident, move the throttle lever and nothing will happen for maybe a third of a second. It takes some getting used to for sure, and until Howard got the manual out there was no beep to confirm you were in fact in neutral. The detent is so soft on these things and levers move so easily.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Delay what is this delay you speak of my antique period side mounted Morse is instant n short n stubby these days , its original lever was longer than my granddad's old walking stick , that said my click is more of a reassuring clunk 

Maybe badly written: the delay I complain about is with the electronic or "fly by wire" controls. With the good old Morse, simultaneously with the click you heard the clunk in the driveline and felt the bow or stern dipping. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

I wish it did, but no it does not - so as far as the controllers go they are 'seeing' everything coming into them as being on the ball and reacting as they should be. In laymen terms what is causing the issues seems to be at the control head not at the control computer that then moves the actuators to in turn move the throttle cable and thus the engine throttle.

As for the manual well here it is, note just a light read lol ZF-Microcommand-user-manual.pdf

Although we have 'dialled out' the delay it still is evident, move the throttle lever and nothing will happen for maybe a third of a second. It takes some getting used to for sure, and until Howard got the manual out there was no beep to confirm you were in fact in neutral. The detent is so soft on these things and levers move so easily.

With my controls it is the gear selection that has the delay, throttle is pretty much instantaneous once gear is selected.

[diesel falcon]

Page 132...............your not kidding about the read!  if you have no errors 

[BroomSedan]

While the ZF Controller topic is still running, just for me to understand it better, how when it has been returned to neutral and tick over is it stopping the engine or stalling in some way as Robin mentioned. I just took that as an indication of poor combustion, miss timing or over fueling or is this controller connected to the engine stop in some way that I am unaware of? I am just wondering what I am not getting?

Thanks.

[diesel falcon]

imho, the only way the system would stop the engine on tick over would be that the mechanical stop for tick over on the engine had moved, allowing the engine to be below what it will tick over at, reading the other faults he has and a quick flick through that manual! actuator travel may well turn out to be a cause of his woes, but i am no expert just looking at the problem in theory

[BroomSedan]

Thanks for that 'diesel falcon'. Unusual to go past the mechanical stop unless it hasn't been locked off properly but I don't know Yanmars very well. It just seemed a strange coincidence for a stop to move at the same time as the revs are ranging up and down and the two things not be connected. We had a similar problem once with a Volvo and it turned out to be the balance springs in the govenor. I will be looking forward to hearing  how NYA cure the problem. By the way our boat has a morse control!

[quo vadis]

28 minutes ago, diesel falcon said:

imho, the only way the system would stop the engine on tick over would be that the mechanical stop for tick over on the engine had moved, allowing the engine to be below what it will tick over at, reading the other faults he has and a quick flick through that manual! actuator travel may well turn out to be a cause of his woes, but i am no expert just looking at the problem in theory

Exactly

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, quo vadis said:

Exactly

Or the stop solenoid was engaged