Independence - Updates | Maintenance & Care

[SwanR]

Thanks for sharing such a comprehensive write-up with us Griff. A very interesting read as we were all following the day's events as best we could but would have had no idea what you were all up against.

[Polly]

Nice work, glad I wasn't there!

[LondonRascal]

What a well written, truly immersive story of courage and endeavour. Sometimes a face can tell you a thousands words and when I got on the boat at Yarmouth I did not need telling what they had been through  - with legs like jelly connected to lead weights they were all exhausted, but despite it all there was also pride and achievement shining through.

Indy was like a dog that had dragged her owner up and down dale through mud and cold streams - a mess, soaking wet but not the worse for wear. We lost the auto pilot, two wine glasses and a couple of tie down straps for the RIB. She has proved what a well built and capable safe boat she is and mechanically ran faultlessly through it all.

I consider myself fortunate over the years to have met and become friends with such genuinely good men who do so much and yet ask for so little for which I will always be grateful. You know though, one way or the other Charlie and I seem to get involved in some of the most interest adventures and mad cap escapades - being on Broad Ambition off the coast with a couple of Navy fast patrol boats, to the first time I mentioned about the Trader and where she was lying and how we may bring her to Norfolk. Things like this are to be savoured and no doubt there will me many more boating themed things we get involved in one way or the other but it is also nice to have a community like this, to talk to an share these times with too and whose support and help is equally always remembered.

 

[LondonRascal]

20 hours ago, riyadhcrew said:

Hi Robin,

Thinking of it getting a good run

1 questions - how far is Breydon from you?

2 - how far will 28 litres get you?

Breydon from Brundall is about 14 miles and how far will 28 litres of petrol get me? Well I have no idea but at a 'slow' 6MPH probably a good distance. I would not mind doing it in the RIB, she has a very comfy seat and helm storage for lunch and a drink an I could keep some spare fuel in a jerry can too. That said it is a bit like a hill and a bicycle. You spend ages and a lot of energy getting up it, only for the trip down the other side to be so short lived if exciting. Taking the RIB to Breydon to have a short play with at speed only to then slog it all the way back home after is not so much my cup of tea.

However having the experience and use of it makes me pleased the boat came with it, and I am looking forward to the fist launch and trip. New battery ordered, oil got now I just need some petrol and a nice day.

 

[FairTmiddlin]

Robin

The Williams rib? When you are down next or if you know, can you let me know which engine it has. I believe its a Weber MP750 engine if it is, it does not have a wet sump, its a pump and scavenge system.

[grendel]

Just wondering, but the fuel and the oil in the rib, well after the thorough shaking up and motion of the trip to the broads, is it possible that the fuel and oil were just dispersed by the rough motions, sprayed to the winds so to speak, the rib would have been seeing more motion than you would have down in the cabin.

[MauriceMynah]

6 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

You spend ages and a lot of energy getting up it, only for the trip down the other side to be so short lived

Robin, do you seriously think you can say something like that and for me not to notice?

 

Mods, gag me... don't wait.... do it now .......before you have to ban me.

[LondonRascal]

Quote

Robin

The Williams rib? When you are down next or if you know, can you let me know which engine it has. I believe its a Weber MP750 engine if it is, it does not have a wet sump, its a pump and scavenge system

I believe this is it. And have the manual now myself and see how things seem to work. As Pete said it could have been the violent motion the RIB went through that caused the oil and fuel to be ejected out of places it should not have been ejected from. All I could see (and you will see this in a forthcoming video) was the top of the oil reservoir - and only this - had milky oil, you know when you mix oil and water and it turns to that yucky milky state. But this was as if you split a little - what about 3 odd litres of the stuff? The RIB has a bilge pump and I duly gave it a go, but no water was ejected let alone any oil and since the engine cover has a big rubber seal around it short of flying out the air intakes under the seat I am at a loss. Not to mention of course the RIB has a cover over it.

So what my plan is this Friday I will pop up to Brundall in the morning fit the new battery and check the oil and hope it is where I left it bang on between min and max. If it has fallen at all I know I have a leak somewhere.  The RIB had no oil in when we got her ready in Plymouth and now I am wondering if this may be why it was left with the boat and cost nothing to me, it might have its own checkered history.  One thing it has only ever clocked up 1.7Hrs of use in 8 years!

 

[grendel]

from the looks of the manual, you may not have lost 3 litres of oil there is only half a litre between the marks on the dipstick, so a litre would take it below where it could read a level. if it has only 1.7 hours of use, then it still needs at least another 4 hours running the engine in. (less than 6000 rpm)

[FairTmiddlin]

The oil level must be measured with oil warm from operation (approx. 80 °C

[176 °F]) and with the motor at a standstill. Measurements with cold oil are not

meaningful. The desired motor temperature is achieved after a driving time of

approx. 10 minutes at 4000 - 4500 U/min [RPM].

Measurement with a motor warm from operation is necessary, because

the oil volume changes depending on the temperature. To avoid mistaken

measurements, the vehicle must be level.

If the motor is operated for a longer time under extreme conditions, the oil

level may reach the MAX marking

The oil feed to the sump is gravity fed and scavenged to the reservoir. So at the moment you have too much oil in there

So looking at the method of changing the oil yes, the oil does refeed down to the sump and pipes when cold. Only when it has been run does the pump lift it into the reservoir so I would be careful running it with the amount of oil in it at the moment.

 

Underrunning the MIN marking and exceeding

the MAX marking can cause severe and, under

some circumstances, irreparable damage to the

engine.

 

Strange statement that because doing the operations in the first statement could do exactly the same (10 minutes at 4000 revs and no oil would mean bits coming through the crankcase)

 

[grendel]

also there appears to be a correct way of taking the oil level, in that you need to run the engine for a short time before checking the oil level (this is obviously tricky when it is up out of the water.)

see below from the williams jet tender tips and tricks page. which would explain why it appeared empty.

Quote

There is a special procedure to follow to check you oil level; Williams high performance gas engines are employed with dry-sump. This is familiar for those who has involved racing or high performance craft before. You need to run the engine about one minute then shut off and check the level. Otherwise, if you check before running the engine you will not see any evidence of oil in the dipstick and severe engine damage may occur if you overfill accidentally.

 

[LondonRascal]

Ok I have the solution. I need a larger boat with a Tender garage and some crew - then I can simply instruct said crew to ready the RIB and they can faff about with all the mechanical stuff too. 

On a serious note, it depends on manual what you get told - they do differ. The PDF version tells you to use 5W40 fully synthetic oil, but my paper manual says 5W40 fully or part synthetic oil. I know there is little thing but just goes to show. The fact is I can't really go round the rivers at 6,000RPM anyway because all hell would be let loose lol.

I have a new idea - I obtain an oil filter for the engine, use a suction pump and take out all the oil from the engine - fit new filter and put fresh oil in. Thus it has had an oil change at a known date - with a known amount of oil going in and then with the new battery and some fuel get the thing launched, run the engine up to temperature take an oil check and top up if required and say 'jobs a goodun'.

Anyone know where I can get a Textron MPE 850 engine oil filter? (Found it here)

285 Jet RIB Technical Sheet.pdf

[grendel]

4 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

Ok I have the solution. I need a larger boat with a Tender garage and some crew - then I can simply instruct said crew to ready the RIB and they can faff about with all the mechanical stuff too. 

On a serious note, it depends on manual what you get told - they do differ. The PDF version tells you to use 5W40 fully synthetic oil, but my paper manual says 5W40 fully or part synthetic oil. I know there is little thing but just goes to show. The fact is I can't really go round the rivers at 6,000RPM anyway because all hell would be let loose lol.

I have a new idea - I obtain an oil filter for the engine, use a suction pump and take out all the oil from the engine - fit new filter and put fresh oil in. Thus it has had an oil change at a known date - with a known amount of oil going in and then with the new battery and some fuel get the thing launched, run the engine up to temperature take an oil check and top up if required and say 'jobs a goodun'.

That sounds like a good plan, after 8 years some of the oil may be the original

[LondonRascal]

Hmm not sure I want to pay $122 shipping for a $16 oil filter - need to find something already in the UK! The part number is an 105041 Oil Filter.

Update: I think I may need to get in touch with a Williams agent.

Update: I call Williams their after service care team is out to lunch

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LondonRascal said:

I believe this is it. And have the manual now myself and see how things seem to work. As Pete said it could have been the violent motion the RIB went through that caused the oil and fuel to be ejected out of places it should not have been ejected from. All I could see (and you will see this in a forthcoming video) was the top of the oil reservoir - and only this - had milky oil, you know when you mix oil and water and it turns to that yucky milky state. But this was as if you split a little - what about 3 odd litres of the stuff? The RIB has a bilge pump and I duly gave it a go, but no water was ejected let alone any oil and since the engine cover has a big rubber seal around it short of flying out the air intakes under the seat I am at a loss. Not to mention of course the RIB has a cover over it.

So what my plan is this Friday I will pop up to Brundall in the morning fit the new battery and check the oil and hope it is where I left it bang on between min and max. If it has fallen at all I know I have a leak somewhere.  The RIB had no oil in when we got her ready in Plymouth and now I am wondering if this may be why it was left with the boat and cost nothing to me, it might have its own checkered history.  One thing it has only ever clocked up 1.7Hrs of use in 8 years!

 

1.7 hours use could maybe attributed to the RIB not being very practical in other than calm waters i.e inland waterways.

I don't know what plans you for recovering a MOB are, or how you would lift a heavy person plus much heavy wet clothing back on board at sea, but maybe a harness adapter for the hoist is a consideration.

[LondonRascal]

Just now, Philosophical said:

I don't know what plans you for recovering a MOB are, or how you would lift a heavy person plus much heavy wet clothing back on board at sea, but maybe a harness adapter for the hoist is a consideration

Moat boats have no consideration to such an event, some like the Trader have a low down swim platform and extending ladder to aid recovery which would be far easier than to get the remote control for the crane, connect it all up and then wait while the crane slowly but surely moves around. It is very slow and cumbersome procedure so I don't think would help in an emergency trying to get someone out the water.

As to the RIB I think it goes to show how these 'toys' might work in the warm waters of the Med to have a mess about or anchor offshore and zoom into the local harbour for a meal before headed back to the boat, but in the UK - really what is their use? If the RIB had been offered to me at a knock down price I would have declined, but to have taken over the boat and found the last owner decided to include it after all for nothing I am willing to put a little effort into making it clean and tidy and a good runner. It has little practical use but for £60 odd a year to toll it also is not that much of a cost - just found out it is also included in my main motorboat insurance which was a boon so long as after each use it is returned to the boat to which it is normally kept and not kept ashore or at another location.

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

Moat boats have no consideration to such an event, some like the Trader have a low down swim platform and extending ladder to aid recovery which would be far easier than to get the remote control for the crane, connect it all up and then wait while the crane slowly but surely moves around. It is very slow and cumbersome procedure so I don't think would help in an emergency trying to get someone out the water.

As to the RIB I think it goes to show how these 'toys' might work in the warm waters of the Med to have a mess about or anchor offshore and zoom into the local harbour for a meal before headed back to the boat, but in the UK - really what is their use? If the RIB had been offered to me at a knock down price I would have declined, but to have taken over the boat and found the last owner decided to include it after all for nothing I am willing to put a little effort into making it clean and tidy and a good runner. It has little practical use but for £60 odd a year to toll it also is not that much of a cost - just found out it is also included in my main motorboat insurance which was a boon so long as after each use it is returned to the boat to which it is normally kept and not kept ashore or at another location.

 

If you hadn't regarded it as a "freebee" I would not have made the comment. Where near here are you going to find the secluded sun kissed beach with a wonderful view of the sea and horizon with your boat resting gently at anchor till sunset, or enjoy a short ride in the wonderful sunshine to a harbour taverna with a quay low enough to be able to get of the RIB?

[vanessan]

33 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

 

I don't know what plans you for recovering a MOB are, or how you would lift a heavy person plus much heavy wet clothing back on board at sea, but maybe a harness adapter for the hoist is a consideration.

Shouldn’t that be SOB - spectacles overboard? 

[LondonRascal]

Quote

Where near here are you going to find the secluded sun kissed beach with a wonderful view of the sea and horizon with your boat resting gently at anchor till sunset, or enjoy a short ride in the wonderful sunshine to a harbour taverna with a quay low enough to be able to get of the RIB?

Wells Next-The-Sea perhaps then off for Fish & Chips lol

[FairTmiddlin]

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/870207/Weber-Mpe-750-Turbo-Marine.html#manual

Manual for the engine

Don't know if you already have this

If you need some help give me a ring can pop up and have a look

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LondonRascal said:

Wells Next-The-Sea perhaps then off for Fish & Chips lol

Getting there certainly picturesque!! Now I admit That I've never been, but if you arrived at high tide and stayed a while wouldn't you have to drag the RIB for a bit  before it floated again?

 

[LondonRascal]

1 hour ago, Philosophical said:

...if you arrived at high tide and stayed a while wouldn't you have to drag the RIB for a bit  before it floated again? 

You might, but I would just wait for the tide to come back again and float it. Now granted this may mean having to head back to your boat at night - not usually a problem, but in a popular spot you'd need to play 'find your boat' among the many anchor lights. But Williams thought of night time use so have navigation lights that are stowed under the engine cover usually.

In the alternative most Marina's have a 'dinghy dock' where you can come tie up on a pontoon and head off and come back to it.

Most boaters seem to have a Tender - I think many will have great ideas of it's use - from fishing in it, to a handy shuttle between anchorage and shore and if all that fails to convince the wife it really is a good idea, it is a ready to go life raft with engine. In reality they sit upside down on fly bridges, dangling on Davits generally forgotten and unloved. I hope Picca at least gets some use even if it is only down to Surlingham Ferry and back.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

You might, but I would just wait for the tide to come back again and float it. Now granted this may mean having to head back to your boat at night - not usually a problem, but in a popular spot you'd need to play 'find your boat' among the many anchor lights. But Williams thought of night time use so have navigation lights that are stowed under the engine cover usually.

In the alternative most Marina's have a 'dinghy dock' where you can come tie up on a pontoon and head off and come back to it.

Most boaters seem to have a Tender - I think many will have great ideas of it's use - from fishing in it, to a handy shuttle between anchorage and shore and if all that fails to convince the wife it really is a good idea, it is a ready to go life raft with engine. In reality they sit upside down on fly bridges, dangling on Davits generally forgotten and unloved. I hope Picca at least gets some use even if it is only down to Surlingham Ferry and back.

I'd stay drinking somewhere till next high tide.

Surlingham Ferry, now have you thought of offering a taxi service from Brundall Marina to the Ferry pub?

[vanessan]

1 hour ago, Philosophical said:

I hope Picca at least gets some use even if it is only down to Surlingham Ferry and back.

One use you haven’t mentioned Robin - floating round Indy whilst cleaning/inspecting the hull. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

Moat boats have no consideration to such an event, some like the Trader have a low down swim platform and extending ladder to aid recovery which would be far easier than to get the remote control for the crane, connect it all up and then wait while the crane slowly but surely moves around. It is very slow and cumbersome procedure so I don't think would help in an emergency trying to get someone out the water.

Doesn't anyone think if how they would get out if the water ? , my boat a humble river cruiser is equipped with 2 life rings , a throwing line and a boarding ladder that extends far enough to get your foot in it and securely bolted to the hull .