Boat weight/displacement

[DaveS]

Now I am confused

My son and I having been looking for a boat for him, for some months, and I think I've found a possible contender.

Its a Falcon 22 SPC, that has a five year old Mercruiser Diesel engine fitted (it replaced the original 4.3 V6 Petrol)

Now, he wants to tow his boat, and has a 4x4 with a rated towing capacity of 3000kg. The Bayliner 2155's/2255's and Sealine 210's on trailers, fit very comfortably within this 3000kg limit, with a good margin to spare.

From information I found on the web, the weight of the Falcon 22 is shown as 2400kg and 3200kg 'all up' on trailer. This seems incredibly heavy for a 22ft boat, as my 24ft Viking weighs in at 1600kg plus say 200kg for the engine, and is 2ft longer and 2" wider than the Falcon .

Another web search found a weight of 1800kg inc a 4.3 V6 inboard, for the Falcon 22 SPC, and 2000kg for the Falcon 23, which seems more logical.

Yet another site, gave the Falcon 23 as being 1800kg.

So, as you can see, I'm now totally confused .

Does anybody have a definitive answer, as to the true weight of the Falcon 22 SPC?

Dave

[Mowjo]

As far as I've been able to find out, the actual boat weight is 3200kg and the displacement weight is 1800kg, hope that helps?

Regards Frank,,,

[DaveS]

Thanks for your input Frank

If that is the case, then 3200kg for a 22 ft boat, must mean the GRP is about a inch thick

Dave

[jimbo]

Being a sea goer, it will have a thick layup compared to a river dweller

[DaveS]

That could be the case Jim, but then the equivalent Bayliners, Sealines, and Maxums, don't weigh anywhere near that.

Albeit I know that Bayliners are notorious for having lightweight hulls, in fact a Marine Engineer/Boatbuilder that my son knows, calls them Binliners, because of their thin hulls.

Dave

[jimbo]

Do the others you list employ those foam sandwich type hulls though? As I imagine there would be a big weight saving doing it that way.

[Guest]

"the actual boat weight is 3200kg and the displacement weight is 1800kg, hope that helps?"

Archimedes would have had something to say about that.

Modern Viking Boats, (no joke intended there !) are also not very heavily laid up either, considering they're not restricted to inland use only.

[Guest]

Doh..

I started typing before engaging brain in gear again..

I thought the Viking's construction was being discussed !

(Archimedes is still turning in his grave though)

[Jim]

Blimey Dave, this is embarrassing as I own a 22 with the original 6 cylinder BMW220 engine and I really don't know how much she weighs

My best guess is around 2,200 to 2,500 Kgs and of course the weight would be affected by the amount of water and fuel in the tanks. I'll see what I can dig out from the archives and hopefully, get back to you with a bit more factual information. Because the model you have found has a diesel engine, I'm assuming it will be heavier than the petrol equivalent.

[Jim]

According to one of the brokerage sites I checked, they say the total trailered weight would be 3200 Kgs. I think the boat listed (in fact I know) is really a 22.

For your information, the 23 is the later version and only has subtle differences including changes to the rear decking and the walk through gate to the swim platform. The pulpit rails on all the early Falcon 22's are different too and very easy to spot. All the hull layups are pretty thick as Jimbo said earlier. I do have an owners manual supplied by the now seemingly defunct owners club and it gives no details of trailered weight.

Nice choice of boat may I say

[DaveS]

Archimedes would have had something to say about that.

He certainly would

BTW, my Viking 24 is a Class 'C' boat, which basically means inland/estuary, albeit I'd be happy to take it on the 'salt', on calm day.

Jim

I think that a suitable 'roller coaster' trailer, to carry 2500kg of boat, would likely weigh around 600kg, so maybe the figure of 2400-2500kg for the boat, is realistic. Which does indeed make it a very heavy boat for it's size.

I guess whether or not the internal woodwork is of solid timber, or light weight (caravan type) construction, would also be a significant factor.

My son has e-mailed the original designer of the boat, who apparently is still in 'the business', to see if he can get a definitive answer.

It was originally advertised as a boat that is suitable for towing, and considering its a British boat, that was probably a bit 'tongue in cheek'. At a trailered weight of 3200kg, the number of non-commercial vehicles that can legally tow that, is very limited.

My son has a 'long wheel base' Nissan Terrano, with a 3.0L diesel, which is rated to tow 3000kg, So 3200kg excluding fuel and personal posessions, would rule the Falcon 22 out, which is a shame, for as you say, its a nice boat, and one of his favourites.

Dave

[Jim]

Hi Dave,

NIce to hear the mention of Andrew Wolstenholme again and I'm sure your son will hear back from him as soon as he has time. I got in contact with him after I realised that we had the very first Falcon 22 and he was very pleased to hear how much we enjoy her. It was his first sporstboat design and if you go here:-http://www.wolstenholmedesign.com/gallery1.htm you will find more information about past and present projects.

Indeed, if you look at Gallery 1 on his website, you will spot my avatar

[mbird]

Can I just throw a spanner of caution into the works please?

Just because a vehicle manufacturer states the towing capacity of a vehicle to be 3000kg, doesn't mean it is safe to tow at that weight. I was a caravanner for many years before seeing the light and buying a boat, and the recommendation of the various caravanning organisations have always been that for safe stable towing, the trailer (be it boat or caravan or trailer of rubble) should never exceed 85% of the kerbside weight of the towing vehicle.

The problem is that most vehicle handbooks tend to state a vehicle can tow a weight often in excess of the vehicle weight, which can result in very unstable combinations, and in worse case scenarios end up with bits of vehicle and trailer strewn over motorways, when the trailer takes charge of the whole combination.

Sorry to sound a bit like yer mum, but it is worth thinking about.....

[Guest]

Our first boat was a Falcon 23spc complete with trailer. The boat weigh 2.5 tonnes and 3.2 with the trailer. We fetched it out of the water behind my Jeep once to carry out some work and the whole outfit looked ridiculous so even if it was legal it certainly didn't look it and I only towed it onto the hard standing.

Jonathan

[Jim]

You kid me not Jonathan

I went up the road to Quayline Marine to see the new Quayline 23 (they bought the moulds from the 22 and 23 Falcons) and the trailer was massive. Even if you stuck a large 4x4 in front, the boat and trailer would have dwarfed it

[diesel falcon]

.

Nice choice of boat may I say

Seconded!! If it helps my 27 weighs 3200 kgs dry,fitted with 2 mercruiser d183.s

[DaveS]

OK Guys, firstly, many thanks for your input, it was much appreciated.

The weight of the Falcon 22 SPC, is between 2400 and 2500kg, and so trailered, around 3200kg.

However, the towing weight has now become somewhat irrelevant, as my son has decided to go for a Marina berth now, and not bother towing a 22, which he would not be able to do legally.

So, moving on from this position, today we inspected (in and out of the water), a Falcon 22 SPC, that three years ago, had the original 4.3 V4 petrol engine replaced, with a new Mercruiser 120 Diesel, and Alpha 1 Gen 2 outdrive.

As a result, having 'haggled' well on the price, he went ahead and agreed the deal

The boat is currently in Cambridgeshire, and is being jet washed, antifouled, and the hull polished before it leaves its current location. A new BSS examination is also being done, as this was due to expire shortly (the seller is paying for this).

All being well, the boat should be transported up to its new home on the Broads, next week.

Dave

[DaveS]

Just to close this 'thread', the boat was delivered today, launched, and is now on it's mooring.

Dave

[Antares_9]

Good news, happy new ship

Bugger! now you'll have to close it again Dave.

[jimbo]

Gor! Just when you think you have closed a thread, along come a couple of muppets and keep it going Ooops! Thats another post!

[DaveS]

Dave

[GrantS]

Following on with this thread, I now own the boat, but will not be towing it. However, she is over propped. Based on the weight / length and the fact that she has 120HP Mercruiser Diesel lump that weighs in at 225KG according to the user manual and an Alpha 1 Gen2 drive (Don't know what gear ratio the drive is yet) The engine needs to acheive 4400 RPM at WOT, so is there anybody that can tell me the exact Pitch & Diameter prop for the engine to acheive its correct rev limit.

Many thanks, Grant

[diesel falcon]

hi,

you will need to know the ratio ,to put into the prop calculater,what pitch and diameter has it got now,and what max dia prop can you get on the leg?

[diesel falcon]

whoops here it is http://www.castlemarine.co.uk/pitch.htm

[GrantS]

Thanks for the info & link, very helpful. I should have made a note of what size / pitch prop it had just before it was put back into the water. I guess i might be able to see it if i trim the drive fully up, although im not sure if it will come out of the water enough to see it properly (will check next time i am down there). As for the drive ratio, not too sure how i can find that out at the moment. The prop thats on it is so big that the large circular anode that normally has a fin in the middle and is located underneath and at the end of the cavitaion plate has the fin part missing, otherwise the prop would hit it.

one of many jobs that i need to do................

Thanks again,

Grant