BSS

[Guest]

Mmmm its not quite that simple Robin , for a start you would still be liable for the toll , BA would insist on a safety check which is more concerned with pollution than safety , after which you will be given a time limit to get the BSS sorted , now I don't know if BA can remove a vessel from what is affectively their waters I'm pretty sure CRT can , but I doubt any insurance cover would be Invalid as Jocave mentioned and yes a marina can give you notice to quit usually 28 days , most marinas will want to see the relivent paperwork at the beginning of a contract anyway , though these days the BSS certificate is held with BA though you can request a copy , add to all this court costs , victims surcharge etc and it gets quite expensive much more so if anything happens to the boat without a BSS in place , a BSS isnt something to fear in any way , OK some of it is silly in a way but 99% of it is perfect common sense , its available to download so creating some nice bed time reading , all vessels built under a RCD would be compliant or should be iv seen a couple that weren't in some areas , not a bad idea to get the BSS regs if your restoring a boat too as certain things need doing s certain way for BSS and could prove difficult to rectify when the boat is completed .

Independence will no doubt require a BSS when she gets to Norfolk to be tolled and registered but I believe your gas free so that make life a lot easier the only thing I can think of that could be a problem is the fuel tank sight guages , now iv no idea what they are made of and your glass bowled filters should pass but if the sight tubes are plastic I'd expect that to fail unfortunately .

All in all I don't think its worth it not to do it right though I know some that dont and year in year out they are In court some so many times they are probably on first name terms with the magistrates .

[MauriceMynah]

What about your toilets Robin?

[JennyMorgan]

As I understand things the BSS does not cover the issue of sea-toilets. It then gets even more confusing when we consider that the pump-out regulations predate the Broads Act/Broads Authority and are in fact NRA/Environment agency regulations. I was in a pub last summer and wigged in on a group of boat owners, some members of which were proudly claiming that they had reverted to sea-toilets in order to save on pump-out fees and anyway no one ever checked on boat toilets. I believe that last point to be correct, no one ever checks. So, Robin, don't worry! Are your toilets of the maceration/turd strangler type? If they are then I would seriously question their impact on the Broads. I'm pretty sure that the BA does not enforce regulations on toilets because the regulations are not theirs, unless someone knows otherwise. All down to personal responsibility really.

[JanetAnne]

If Independence does have sea toilets I guess her mooring will need dredging after all, and frequently 

[Meantime]

5 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

As I understand things the BSS does not cover the issue of sea-toilets. It then gets even more confusing when we consider that the pump-out regulations predate the Broads Act/Broads Authority and are in fact NRA/Environment agency regulations. I was in a pub last summer and wigged in on a group of boat owners, some members of which were proudly claiming that they had reverted to sea-toilets in order to save on pump-out fees and anyway no one ever checked on boat toilets. I believe that last point to be correct, no one ever checks. So, Robin, don't worry! Are your toilets of the maceration/turd strangler type? If they are then I would seriously question their impact on the Broads. I'm pretty sure that the BA does not enforce regulations on toilets because the regulations are not theirs, unless someone knows otherwise. All down to personal responsibility really.

The BSS does cover a boats sanitation system. See attached Page 64. It isn't onerous and is mainly concerned with ensuring there is a closable valve fitted in any discharge line of a toilet or tank with over board discharge. I believe the attached is the current BSS regs, maybe a BSS examiner, if there is one who is a member, could confirm.

ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

[JennyMorgan]

13 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

The BSS does cover a boats sanitation system. See attached Page 64. It isn't onerous and is mainly concerned with ensuring there is a closable valve fitted in any discharge line of a toilet or tank with over board discharge. I believe the attached is the current BSS regs, maybe a BSS examiner, if there is one who is a member, could confirm.

ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

That's good, not sure that that was always the case though so an obvious improvement. I do know that some inland marinas insist that the closeable valve has a seal on it. It still boils down to personal standards and responsibility and I do wonder who, if anyone, actually checks? It was an issue that was discussed when I was on the navigation committee so I do know that the Authority is aware of the problems.  

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

The BSS does cover a boats sanitation system. See attached Page 64. It isn't onerous and is mainly concerned with ensuring there is a closable valve fitted in any discharge line of a toilet or tank with over board discharge. I believe the attached is the current BSS regs, maybe a BSS examiner, if there is one who is a member, could confirm.

ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

Sea toilets are indeed in the BSS chapter 9 , they should be inspected as part of the examination as the BSS has an obligation to inform the navigation authority if they find a situation where sewage is discharge into the water course and I'm quite sure there is legislation in the broads act relating to the discharge of sewage .

[JennyMorgan]

9 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Sea toilets are indeed in the BSS chapter 9 , they should be inspected as part of the examination as the BSS has an obligation to inform the navigation authority if they find a situation where sewage is discharge into the water course and I'm quite sure there is legislation in the broads act relating to the discharge of sewage .

If not then they should be! It's an issue that has been raised in regard to house-boats. Personally I can't see why it should be a problem, other than the cost. Mind you I have heard people question the facilities, or lack of, in relation to cassette type toilets. .

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

If not then they should be! It's an issue that has been raised in regard to house-boats. Personally I can't see why it should be a problem, other than the cost. Mind you I have heard people question the facilities, or lack of, in relation to cassette type toilets. .

I'll totally agree the broads is in no way geared up for the use of cassette toilets , it is possible to retro fit a holding tank but not without problem's of space v capacity etc + the cost implications , that said there should be cost implications for discharging Into the river too in the form of prosecution .

[ranworthbreeze]

Some of the Marina's do have facilities for Elsan discharge points, our marina does.

I would have thought that the Waveney River Center would also provide the facilities.

Regards

Alan

[Guest]

My boat was originally fitted with a sea toilet as it was fitted out and spent its early life on the Ouse. It was removed when moved to the Broads and now has a portable type which we were initially a bit dubious about but have found to be no problem at all, and no pump out fees or maintenance issues. Of course you need to be based in a marina with a disposal point.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Some of the Marina's do have facilities for Elsan discharge points, our marina does.

I would have thought that the Waveney River Center would also provide the facilities.

Regards

Alan

St olives certainly has one too , thing is they are few and far between , the canals are much better geared up for it with 99% of sanitary stations having disposal points , hence why I chose a cassette toilet for my narrow boat , besides not having to worry about being iced in as I had quite a few cassettes it also gave me the wonderful task of transporting them to the disposal point on ye old sack cart  

[JennyMorgan]

Personally my wife and I make full use of pubs and bank-side toilets thus we find that we can survive a week without needing to empty our cassette toilet which we then empty when we get home so I have no idea whether the WRC is suitably equipped. My daughter tells me that there are no suitable facilities at Beccles so she has to shoot her contents down the  more normal public toilet pan.

[Vaughan]

6 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

My daughter tells me that there are no suitable facilities at Beccles so she has to shoot her contents down the  more normal public toilet pan.

"In Days of Old, when Knights were bold and lavatories weren't invented : they shot their load in the middle of the road and went away quite contented."

[JennyMorgan]

3 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

"In Days of Old, when Knights were bold and lavatories weren't invented : they shot their load in the middle of the road and went away quite contented."

Best not done on the Broads, floating logs can sink boats or damage props, plus, if allowed to build up, might need planning consent.

[grendel]

not to mention it will incur a toll.

[JanetAnne]

Can I just mention that whilst we are all used to threads wandering off topic etc there has been more sh... crap talked about on this thread than the whole rest of the forum put together

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

Can I just mention that whilst we are all used to threads wandering off topic etc there has been more sh... crap talked about on this thread than the whole rest of the forum put together

Yea true , but its not just crap , its BSS crap 

[socrates]

Had our first BSS earlier this year, the previous one was still valid when we purchased BG. It appears, like surveyors, that examiners vary in standards and quality. I went by recommendation and found the examiner to be fair and knowledgeable, he spent a considerable amount of time poking about, shining his torch and explaining what and why he was doing what he was doing as he went along. Gas safety and CO2 was, quite rightly, a priority.  

The BA sent us a reminder along with our toll demand so they seem to have a record of BSS dates somewhere in their systems. Both our marina and insurance insist on photocopies of the certificate, which is not a bad thing. 

The prices examiners charge seems to vary somewhat, I would be interested to see what other people have paid. I assume that the cost is related to the size of the boat and the number of gas appliances on board. But then again, who knows? I thought £100 was a fair price for what was around two hours inspection and advice. 

Another thing he was insistent on was that everything was labeled: the battery box was labeled "Battery Box", fuel and water likewise clearly labeled. He did say that we also needed a green sign saying "escape" fitted above the door to the main cabin - talk about stating the obvious! This task has now been added to the very long "to do" list. 

[JennyMorgan]

A few interesting details there, not least the apparent need for labeling or identifying an already obvious escape route. In my jaundiced view seemingly petty requirements like that can and do generate ridicule, witness health and safety and political correctness.   We paid £70.00 for what amounted to less than an hours work, the same price as we paid for the previous two inspections, each from different examiners.

[LondonRascal]

Like all large sea boats she has 'sea toilets' but she also has a large holding tank - a 'simple' job of taking apart the wood work under the heads sinks gains you assess to the valve to switch from sea toilet to holding tank so that is not a problem - I can also choose to pump out the holding tank from the boat, you sure don't want to accidentally catch that switch!

All the sight gauges have been replaced on the fuel tanks but I doubt there BSS compliment, just as well I got the heating installers to put in copper fuel pipes as they were going to use rubber. This added an extra £150.00 on the cost to be 'Inland Waterways Compliant'.

[diesel falcon]

so................how do you empty the holding tank at Brundell?

[LondonRascal]

Quote

so................how do you empty the holding tank at Brundell?

I go to a get a pump out from say Brooms - the fitting on the deck is a standard pump out fitting.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

Like all large sea boats she has 'sea toilets' but she also has a large holding tank - a 'simple' job of taking apart the wood work under the heads sinks gains you assess to the valve to switch from sea toilet to holding tank so that is not a problem - I can also choose to pump out the holding tank from the boat, you sure don't want to accidentally catch that switch!

All the sight gauges have been replaced on the fuel tanks but I doubt there BSS compliment, just as well I got the heating installers to put in copper fuel pipes as they were going to use rubber. This added an extra £150.00 on the cost to be 'Inland Waterways Compliant'.

What wrong with rubber fuel hose as long as its ISO 7840 its fine , re the sight tubes BSS says even in plastic as long as the a closely coupled to the tank and have self sealing valves that's fine .

The switch to pump out the holding tank needs to be locked off some how and it needs a valve in the outlet from the holding tank again to suit BSS .

[LondonRascal]

It has a separate pump with supply cut off, and a separate valve to isolate it too. There are so many 'sea boats' on the Broads with just this set up and since they all must have BSS certificates, I see no reason why I won't get one easily myself. So none of this is a worry.