Salty Bottoms Whitson

[Guest]

Hi There

We'd like to come along but will confirm nearer the time

Purbeck Princess

[Guest]

hi ya

you will greeted with a warm welcome

adam... : : :

[wayneakp]

Hi There

We'd like to come along but will confirm nearer the time

Purbeck Princess

Hi Howard

Great - then there would be two P33's -(subject to approval from her indoors ok). At this rate we'll soon catch up with the Sealines

rgds

Wayne

[senator]

With the latest revelations about Southwold Harbour it may be that Southwold is not the best place to drop a few boats on. Mooring is restricted there and if you can't get 9 boats into OBYS with 3 months notice I don't much fancy the chances of getting 5 or 6 boats into Southwold.

Only problem is that as you go down further the Marinas tend to be a long way up the river and require careful planning for tides.

What are others thoughts on this?

Alternatives are the

Ore and Ald, never been up here but Bar on the entrance and I don't think there are Marina facility's. All info to the contrary welcome.

Deben, Woodbridge is a lovely marina but a long way up river, very restricted on entry and exit times due to a cill on the Marina and a Bar at the river entrance.

Shotley, probably the easiest as far as times and tides, never been in but a couple of forumites are residents, good facility's but not the most picturesque of destinations as it is effectively Felixstowe docks.

Ipswich, no problem with tides but pays to run with the tide up the Orwell as it is a long way up there (about 14 mile) very nice marina right in the city with all facility's

Titchmarsh Marina in the Walton Backwaters, Lovely Marina with good facilitys in a very nice place. Carvery in the restaurant £5 a head in the week, there is a decent chandlers on site so it may be to much of a temptation for some.

The mouths are not far apart and are approx 2 hours from Lowestoft, Woodbridge and Ipswich are another 1 1/2 hour or so up river and titchmarsh about half hour. All the Marinas are about £25 per night.

[Guest]

I don't think we should write Southwold off just yet as it is still early in the season and not up to speed or fully manned. I think we could look at alternatives but still keep Southwold as the destination of choice until we have investigated further. If you do get down there this weekend Ian it would probably be a better indication being a bank holiday weekend. I am still heading for Southwold as I know I can get back if the weather turns and I am sure we are capable of organizing mooring lines and boards.

Jonathan

[mbird]

I think I tend to agree with Jonathan on this that Southwold should still be the first choice for the first time in a strange harbour for many of us, subject to further investigation. If the worst come to the worst and we can't get in for any reason, it is only a short hop back to Lowestoft.

I would love to go further and am quite happy to if Southwold is a no-no, but I would think one or two of the other novices might be a bit put off?

[Antares_9]

As you say Ian, you have not been to Shotley so I don’t know where you got the idea it’s £25 a night, it is more like 17, also Felixstowe is on the other side of the estuary. The Marina itself is a pleasant place to be with all facilities and could accommodate you all in the single trot dedicated visitors moorings (proper ones, not the cheese graters at Titmarsh) with a group discount.

[senator]

As you say Ian, you have not been to Shotley so I don’t know where you got the idea it’s £25 a night, it is more like 17, also Felixstowe is on the other side of the estuary. The Marina itself is a pleasant place to be with all facilities and could accommodate you all in the single trot dedicated visitors moorings (proper ones, not the cheese graters at Titmarsh) with a group discount.

Hi David, £25 was a worse case for our boat last year at Ipswich. Woodbridge, and Titchmarsh were cheaper I think £15 at Tichmarsh and £20 at Woodbridge. Have heard nothing but good reports about Shotley my comment was purely that the backdrop to Shotley is Felixstowe docks.

[senator]

Given the forecast for the weekend it looks like I may now decide to spend the Bank Holiday working on the house. Is anyone likely to be around Southwold over the weekend who could call in and take a look at what is going on?

This weekend should provide a clue as to how they are coping so we can make a decision as to whether Southwold can be used.

[Guest]

it looks like I may now decide to spend the Bank Holiday working on the house

Outrageous!!

Phil and Carron

[pks1702]

Had you seen this Ian

http://magicseaweed.com/Southwold-Surf- ... ecastTable

Anyone thinking of Southwold this weekend might want a look

[senator]

Looks like the call not to go may be a good one, amazing how far Southwold to Lowestoft is at 6 knots inside a washing machine.

Thanks for that Perry seems a decent site.

[pks1702]

From another place.

Spoken to HM just now (Paul on 01502 724712) who told me that the approach to the entrance should now be made at 310deg and not 330 as used to be the case. Once in the entrance keep to sboard to the knuckle (where entrance widens) then to starboard again until into the main river. I for one would only enter at HW +/- 30mins or so, to ensure sufficient water but mainly to avoid the current. Once bitten, twice shy. Don't ask.

[senator]

Interesting Perry, that is a big difference in the approach, just shows how much the sand has moved.

Never really had a problem with the flow there and have been in at most states of tide, have heard story's of those that have got it wrong, by over cooking their angle of approach to the mooring and it does sound painful, low powered single engine types can find the turn before the Baily bridge a challenge if going in mid flood.

There is not any water if you wander away from the wall after the knuckle even at high tide but a lot of the worry about no water in the rest of the river, at anything other than the lowest of tides, is more aimed at deep keeled flappy boats that do tend to frequent the place.

Interesting to find out what the official depths are now.

[diesel falcon]

10ft swell every 7 seconds.......pass sue a bucket!!

[Antares_9]

10ft swell every 7 seconds.......pass sue a bucket!!

It's not the 10' swell with a 7 sec moment that's a worry, it's what it does when it gets to the shallow bits , I think the Deben may be off for us this weekend.

[mbird]

10ft swell every 7 seconds

Wheeeee!

[senator]

Hi David,

Another example of where your knowledge can help those new to the salt. As waves approach shallow water the resistance on the water becomes greater and as such the waves will both steepen and increase in height prior to breaking, but by how much?

Is there an indicator for our section of coast? From what I remember the sea bed also has an effect on this as will the wind and tide direction.

[pks1702]

If you take a look at the image below this explains the basic theorem, this pre supposes you are dealing with a fairly uniform area of depth. An area such as the Deben Bar for instance would have many area's of differing depths and consequently wave heights and frequency. The White water will almost always be on the windward (or should that be waveward) side of the edge of the shallow area.

In my dingy fishing days around the sandbanks of the Thames Estuary we could pretty well tell the depth and size of most of the sand banks/bars just by reading the water.

The relationship between wave speed (phase velocity) and depth of long surface waves in shallow water is given by the formula

c x c = g x d x (p2 - p1) / p2 or

c x c= g x d for water/air

where c= wave speed, g= acceleration of gravity (9.8066 m/s/s), d= wave depth (or upper layer depth, m), p2= density of water (=1) and p1= density of air (= 0.00125).

The formula states that wave speed increases with wave depth and the relative difference in density.

For an ocean depth of 4000m, a wave's celerity or speed would be about SQR(10 x 4000) = 200 m/s = 720 km/hr. Surface waves could theoretically travel much faster on larger planets, in media denser than water.

As waves enter shallow water, they slow down, grow taller and change shape. At a depth of half its wave length, the rounded waves start to rise and their crests become shorter while their troughs lengthen. Although their period (frequency) stays the same, the waves slow down and their overall wave length shortens. The 'bumps' gradually steepen and finally break in the surf when depth becomes less than 1.3 times their height. Note that waves change shape in depths depending on their wave length, but break in shallows relating to their height!

[senator]

That could be very useful Perry, if you are out in a 1m wave height and there are breaking waves you then know that there is at best 1.3m below them and if you have a calculator with you you can even work out how deep it is just by looking at the wave length.

[pks1702]

if you have a calculator with you you can even work out how deep it is just by looking at the wave length.

Calculator, Gyro stability control and laser measuring device

Mark 1 eyeball is still the quickest option

[Brigid-Mary]

An echo sounder helps no end!!!!!!!!

and easier than a calculator.

Paul

[senator]

Or I suppose you could always stay away from breaking waves

Problem Paul with an echo sounder in the circumstances is that in order to get a reading you need to run aground first.

Seriously though, in order to gain detailed local knowledge you do need to find out for yourself how deep it is, if there is an area of breaking waves then at least you know not to go near it unless you have a couple of meters tide on top of when you noticed it. And the wave pattern around them would give a good idea as to the shape of what was below.

It may be safer to stay in the channel but it is also nice to be able to go where others can't, especially for a bit of sea fishing, Something that I need to get around to trying.

Thanks Perry very interesting.

[Guest]

You might find one of these handy Ian.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/177705-Casio-Wate ... _500wt_745

You can work out how long until you float again.

Jonathan

[senator]

Well it is nearly here and looks like being a bit of an awkward start thanks to Somerleyton Bridge.

Maybe a good idea to meet up at RNSYC, that way those that may have to go out through Yarmouth can get together with the rest of the Salty Bottoms.

Entrance waypoint will be posted shortly once confirmed with Southwold harbour master.

Are there any new additions to those intending to go along?