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LondonRascal

Trixie (Rascal's Fleet)

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Many of the boats offered for sale are maintained in good condition and are free from serious defects. A few are not.

I have always had a survey done and whilst it is costly to have a professional do the survey it is worth the extra cost. On our last boat the survey revealed that both exhaust outlets were severely corroded and leaking water into the hull and needed replacement. The end result was that the buyer reduced the sum offered by a significant amount  to take account of the work needed to put the craft into good condition. On another occasion a friend of mine had a survey done and the result was that the laminate below water line was saturated with water and was considered as a write off.

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Be serous buying a boat is just that serious , it doesn't matter a fig about conformity , thing is would you personally chose the no survey sight unseen route London lad ???? I certainly wouldn't its not smart , n personally I'd rather protect my hard earned than be flippant with it .


Maybe if you’d just spent nearly £400k on a boat you don’t like very much risking under £30k on an unseen boat doesn’t seem much of a risk

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36 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Be serous buying a boat is just that serious , it doesn't matter a fig about conformity , thing is would you personally chose the no survey sight unseen route London lad ???? I certainly wouldn't its not smart , n personally I'd rather protect my hard earned than be flippant with it .

.... sight unseen I don't  know to be honest probs would depend on the value and I don't know anything about boats. I might try and find a friend that did. I did buy my house without a survey the bank valued it without a survey and they lent me the money. The way i figured its been here 100 years already no reason to suspect it won't last another 100. 

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7 minutes ago, JohnK said:

 


Maybe if you’d just spent nearly £400k on a boat you don’t like very much risking under £30k on an unseen boat doesn’t seem much of a risk emoji6.png

 

Particularly when a "full survey" could be approaching 10% of the boats value.

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45 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Be serous buying a boat is just that serious , it doesn't matter a fig about conformity , thing is would you personally chose the no survey sight unseen route London lad ???? I certainly wouldn't its not smart , n personally I'd rather protect my hard earned than be flippant with it .

Each to their own,  of 6 boats I have bought,  I had a survey on 3 and the others I had a look over and "kicked the tyres"

 The broom Scorpio I bought unseen.

My last 3 cars I also bought unseen.

 

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3 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

Particularly when a "full survey" could be approaching 10% of the boats value.

That's very true but without it bow do you know of the boat has say for instance osmosis ? N before anyone says its age related it most certainly is not iv seen it on a 3 yr old boat and not just a couple of spotsots of them , 10% out lay  might just save you a lot more either as a bargaining chip or you walk away without buying a bucket cull of trouble , as I said n no one noticed , up to 10 k I'd consider no survey beyond that no way nor would I buy without seeing it first that's must nuts , onless of cause you are prepared to loose a lot of cash .

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9 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Each to their own,  of 6 boats I have bought,  I had a survey on 3 and the others I had a look over and "kicked the tyres"

 The broom Scorpio I bought unseen.

My last 3 cars I also bought unseen.

 

OK then its a,sensible move to buy unseen and survey less .

makes me wonder why its not considered to be the normal route ..

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22 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Each to their own,  of 6 boats I have bought,  I had a survey on 3 and the others I had a look over and "kicked the tyres"

 The broom Scorpio I bought unseen.

My last 3 cars I also bought unseen.

 

I've spent a lot of money, "wasted" many hours reading detailed survey reports on boats that had nothing really wrong with them. 

But i'll still probably have my next boat surveyed.

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27 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

That's very true but without it bow do you know of the boat has say for instance osmosis ? N before anyone says its age related it most certainly is not iv seen it on a 3 yr old boat and not just a couple of spotsots of them , 10% out lay  might just save you a lot more either as a bargaining chip or you walk away without buying a bucket cull of trouble , as I said n no one noticed , up to 10 k I'd consider no survey beyond that no way nor would I buy without seeing it first that's must nuts , onless of cause you are prepared to loose a lot of cash .

I agree, but my threshold would coincidentally be about £30k.

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21 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

OK then its a,sensible move to buy unseen and survey less .

makes me wonder why its not considered to be the normal route ..

Normal is only what most do,  like average,  variations exist outside of normal ranges.

I would assess the age and condition of a boat and decide to from there. 

I might take an educated risk and be mindful of any additional resources I had if I came across an expected problem.

As a surveyor I am well aware of the exclusions and small print get out of jail clauses contained in most surveys.

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2 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

I agree, but my threshold would coincidentally be about £30k.

Its probably 30k because you haven't had your finger's burned I have very early on , a boat at 10 k is pretty easy to survey yourself as it's fairly basic equipment wise , 30k see's you looking at older craft or newer ones with far more equipment that could easily be worn out and as I said osmosis is not an old craft problem the boat I mentioned and have done before is from a respected builder who I won't name but either way it was 3 yrs old and when it was pointed out to the then owner it went up for sale virtually straight away for in the region of 25-30k , now without a survey how can the prospective buyer's know about that problem until its time to re antifoul ? Answer is they can't n then the next guy gets it surveyed n either walks away or offers considerably less money , either way the seller loses in either a sale or financially .

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Ok so here is my take on doing it my way. Yes I do know what I am doing which is why I am doing it in the first place. Firstly it is very easy, involves no stress and can be achieved very swiftly - the main 'issue' is coming up agaisnt the the slow machinery (if I can call it that) of the typical buying and selling process. I actually think there is room for a sea change in the industry but that is another topic.

Lets talk Survey's for a start. Here is one for a Trader 535 I declined to buy but had nothing to do with this 2015 survey: Fair Trader Survey Report.pdf . It runs to 24 pages and means absolutely nothing - sorry if this seems flippant, but it is to my mind 'waffle' for the main details that you need to take note of are contained on only one page alone and run to three items, two of which require some sort of action, and the third speaks of the plain obvious that ongoing maintenance should continue. Now anyone else is entitled to their opinion on this and many might point to their own real world experiences where a survey may have saved them thousands of pounds and a big mistake if they had not got on. For me I will pass on them.

Now you can see such examples time and time again of Surveys and I have found a super easy way to get hold of them, just send a few emails to Brokers asking about boats and ask if there is a previous survey available,  and like this particular one more often than not one will be scanned and sent over to you to read.  I have yet to find one that has been 'really bad' - for example a boat that is pretty much done for and needs masses of things doing to it so walk away type thing. Independence's Survey was far more damning that the example I attach and none of the issues it spoke of are causing me any issues - it is all the things the survey does not cover which are.

I look for the obvious warning signs in photos - I'd walk away from a boat that the owner had not cleaned and prepared ready for sale, some funny wiring of additions or 'tinkering' going on is a right no no and these are often easy to spot. Messy engine bays, and oily water in bilges and fluff and years of crud on engines and around them forget it, stained wood or lining carpets around windows - nope I would not bother. I also would not be going for anything with a  BMC or Perkins (sorry lovers of these but they are not as smooth and quiet as modern units) the list so it is pretty cut throat and that pushes lots of lower priced options straight out the window.

Why do I do as I do?  Because I actually expect the unexpected and issues to present themselves and if and when they do I then will get on with getting them sorted so I don't see this as a bother or a worry because if there are problems found they will be sorted out. 

Talking of sorting things out, I have got the insurance ready to put on risk, I have sorted the mooring out this evening too,  I just don't see how boat buying needs to be such a  long, drawn out, protracted, stressful affair. I jump in deep with both feet and find the process a real buzz.

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Most surveys I see are 95% padding and what if,  we couldn't inspect etc.

I walk away from any boat that smells of diesel,  especially petrol ones  :default_biggrin:

The state of many boats for sale is dire,  same goes for property.

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Talking of property - structural surveys  they seem to happen less and less, what though has gone 'bonkers' are these 'surveys' that you pay a fortune for and seconds later come back like an Environmental Survey, or Flood Survey, HS2,  or Chancel Check you name it and they look amazing, all full of colour and charts and lots of words  and based so much of historical data, previous claims and the like for an area or postcode. So much is now about money - someone is always making it, even out of risky situations because there is always those 'clauses' to get the people who tend to take the money away from any liability.

What tends to be the most important is the boring old  Local Authority search that can takes weeks to get back and is  usually poor photo copies of planning details in black and white and not fancy at all yet they can contain the biggest surprises.

 

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3 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Most surveys I see are 95% padding and what if,  we couldn't inspect etc.

I walk away from any boat that smells of diesel,  especially petrol ones  :default_biggrin:

The state of many boats for sale is dire,  same goes for property.

I commissioned a structural survey on a property, the report over many pages included details of the colour and finish of the wall coverings and floors, and the views  over the fields etc..... (which I could see for myself). 

I deducted a percentage of the fee for what what was not structural.

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19 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

Independence's Survey was far more damning that the example I attach and none of the issues it spoke of are causing me any issues - it is all the things the survey does not cover which are.

No way was that a full survey as that would defiantly include equipment onboard that survey surgests it was a hull survey only hence no mention of any equipment .

Boat buying shouldn't be a long drawn out protracted process but it should include peace of mind , it's fine saying I'm not bothered about this and that n yet you are regarding engines and they are a relatively easy thing to change and a good bargaining tool , any fault on any boat cost money to sort out and can be lots dependent on how skilled the owner is , why start with a possible bunch of problems if its avoidable ? 

I'm sorry but I just don't get this sod it I'll buy it n if its broke I'll spend loads of cash fixing it , if  for a little effort n knowledge all that is avoidable , that doesn't make sense .

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Hi Robin, that looks a really nice boat and well cared for. You won't need such a large crew for the delivery trip:default_biggrin:

I'm sure if there was a report for the boat it will be full of all the usual 'get out' clauses. The last one I read had one in almost every paragraph :facepalm:What it missed was the rudder was going to fall off.

Are you going to rename this one too. How about 'Indulgence'.

Colin:default_beerchug:

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Richards can’t pm you let me have your email please :default_icon_wave:

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39 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

I also would not be going for anything with a  BMC or Perkins (sorry lovers of these but they are not as smooth and quiet as modern units) the list so it is pretty cut throat and that pushes lots of lower priced options straight out the window.

Not as smooth or as quiet as a jap diesel ??? Really from experience they can be just as good as any other diesel engine with the benefit of spares and consumables that have a realistic figure attached to them , there is a thread running on a forum of which your a member Robin regarding a certain Volvo engine whose life expectancy is apparently 1500-3000 hrs so basically 3-4 yrs boating for me maximum before I need a new one .

 Engines are a bit like humans , its what's inside that counts  .

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No

7 minutes ago, quo vadis said:

Richards can’t pm you let me have your email please :default_icon_wave:

Sure 

richardhargreaves46@googlemail.com

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Having looked at the brokers page - What a cracking example of tupperware? - What's not to like?  I reckon Mum and Simon will proper enjoy her

Griff

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From the pictures it looks like a lot of boat inside for it's size. Fit out looks good.

Hope they enjoy the summer out on the river.

Does the broker know who you are? They've be daft to try hide anything from you as you seem to give a honest review good or bad with people you deal with on here which is good.

 

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We didnt have a survey done. Part of the deal was the boat being lifted for an a mechanical overhaul , anodes etc as well as loads of other checks and antifouling. 

After viewing another boat which I was convinced would be 'the one', I personally wouldnt buy one unseen though. It smelt horrible, it was darker inside than I was expecting, it was musty and felt really , really creepy. Maybe Im weird but it really bothered me being in it and couldnt wait to leave.  The one we have now just felt right.  Cosy, welcoming and smelt nice! 

 

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 If you have loads of money then you can justify buying blind as you can afford to bin it and try again.

If, like most of us, you are spending hard earned savings on a dream then you only have one shot so you need to do all you can to ensure there are no nasty surprises. 

 

 

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Cant help thinking of the old saying  a fool and his money are soon parted. I have quite a few items to be sold sight unseen if anyones interested

Fred

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