Trixie (Rascal's Fleet)

[LondonRascal]

I agree. Let me be clear about this, if you are unsure about your own boat on these sort of things do not on any account follow me to the chandlers and go away with a lighter wallet. Get some friendly knowledgable advice as to your own situation and proceed from there.

I need to change one of the sea cocks because it is not able to turn and close, since I am doing that I will have the others doing. Some of the hose clamps have seen better days in places too. I have sent an email off to Ludham Bridge Boatyard and will see what their diary is like for some of this work to be done, as it would be nice to have her in fine fettle ready for the May meet.

 

 

[ExSurveyor]

I treat sea cocks very much like stop cocks,  use them regularly and if any doubt about them,  change them.

I have both types but I do prefer the lever type although it is possible for them to get knocked when doing other work in the area. I always double check as I am a bit clumsy

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

I agree. Let me be clear about this, if you are unsure about your own boat on these sort of things do not on any account follow me to the chandlers and go away with a lighter wallet. Get some friendly knowledgable advice as to your own situation and proceed from there.

I need to change one of the sea cocks because it is not able to turn and close, since I am doing that I will have the others doing. Some of the hose clamps have seen better days in places too. I have sent an email off to Ludham Bridge Boatyard and will see what their diary is like for some of this work to be done, as it would be nice to have her in fine fettle ready for the May meet.

 

 

I'd follow you to a chandler, just to pick up what you drop on the way out. 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Its preference there is nothing wrong With the,wheel type valves , OK they they arnt as quick to turn from of to on but 99% of the time they are on so I really don't see a problem with them ,  thing is everyone is following this thread thinking that every upgrade is necessary and it is not , if it works reliably and in good condition then leave well alone there ain't no point in change for the sake of change .so before every member gets their boat lifted to change something that's works thinks about it  , OK they would not be the first choice but they do work just fine , ignore any part of a boat and it will bite you all those seacocks require is a  little lubrication that's all .

You can tell if a ball/lever type is open, closed or somewhere in between just by looking at it. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Philosophical said:

You can tell if a ball/lever type is open, closed or somewhere in between just by looking at it. 

You can yes but as previously stated quite easy to knock or can even vibrate  into the closed position depending on how freely they turn although  some types have a tab that needs lifting to close them preventing that  , what's also important is fitting the correct type of metal valve if your operating in salt water , many a boat had been lost by fitting the wrong type .

[Guest]

6 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

The gated sea cocks due to the fact they screw in and back out tend to get corrosion occur around the threads, meaning you are no longer able to open or close it and while all sea cocks can suffer from becoming seized, the gated variety are more susceptible to this.

I am going to go with composite Marelon sea cocks. These are known more typically as 'plastic sea cocks' although their make up is actual material is more complex, they are very tough and unlike their metal cousins can never corrode or suffer from electrolysis - something I have going  on one of my valves on one of my fuel tanks on Independence.

 

I have no intention of changing mine at the moment as its working fine  but if the need did arise those Marelon ones look good. Wow those bronze Perko ones are pricey though.

 

[johnb]

Out of curiosity I looked at Robins link for these valves. Can anyone tell me the difference between the small in line lever type and the one that comes up on the link, which seems to have quite a large plastic body? Is it something to do with the difference between sea and salt water? Thanks. 

[johnb]

Just read it again, I meant difference between sea and river water. It's early in the morning for me.

[grendel]

probably as it is a skin fitting, the larger body allows for a firmer seating against the hull, and spreads the load better when the valve is operated / knocked accidentally, they wouldnt want the valve to shear off the hull if accidentally knocked or while being operated.

[SteveO]

I have a "down" on gate valves because a few years ago, I managed to drill a hole in one of my central heating pipes. I needed to shut the water feed off quickly but when I tried to close the gate valve that controls this, it was seized solid in the open position.  It was a Sunday afternoon so I had no option but to call a very expensive emergency plumber.   This was annoying enough in a domestic situation but you don't need to philosophise too deeply to see how this might be more than inconvenient when on the water.

The cost of replacing gate valves with ball valves is negligible, if you wait until the boat has to come out of the water for another reason. 

[grendel]

I have a down on ball valves for much the same reason, the one on the balance pipe for my central heating stuck in the open position, while I was topping up the pressure, next thing I know the system is over pressure and I cant shut off the valve (luckily I found the supply pipe to the system had a gate valve- a bit stiff but shut off the supply. I then managed to bleed the excess pressure and had to go and replace the ball valve- when I inspected it, the rubber seal had managed to get itself wedged into the mouth of the ball opening, stopping it being shut. the moral of the story - test your central heating valves regularly then they shouldnt seize.

[ranworthbreeze]

As with all items plumbing especially is made to a price, I have had issues with gate valves over the years and always have spare ones to replace the upper part of the valve if needs be, yes you will some leakage, but it is better to have something you can turn off if needs be. 

I have not been keen on plastic fittings, they always break at some time so I would never fit one to the skin of a boat.

Regards

Alan

[grendel]

the marelon are only technically plastic, they are carbon fibre reinforced nylon- this is probably tougher than the hull it is attached to.

[Guest]

Both types of valve can fail and certain types should be no where near a boat , DZR valves are expensive but then again not as much as salvaging costs are , as for the though hull fitting nothing less than DZR will do in my book , failure if that component is a sinking for sure on less you have very big bilge pumps , I did on one occasion remove a gate valve for replacement and an extension piece as the original was cast iron , everything was prepared in advance obviously of finally removing the fitting and yiu need 100% confidence in being able to get it installed quickly , seriously you would be surprised at the amount of water in basically 30 seconds that flows through a 1 inch bsp fitting ,  technically I shouldn't have done that  in the water but given that the cast piece was in such poor condition then given I had a big pump ready to run if required it was a risk that was viable but I wouldn't recommend it or do it to anyone else's boat other than mine ..

A bit of lub on both types of valve helps prevent problems be it boat or house as you never know when you may need to shut them in an emergency .

[grendel]

its over twice the tensile strength of Nylon, and nearly as good as Bronze

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, grendel said:

the marelon are only technically plastic, they are carbon fibre reinforced nylon- this is probably tougher than the hull it is attached to.

Probably are  but what's that skin fitting made of ? Swap it for DZR n then its fine , incidentally this is all for the prevention of electrolysis time for a galvanic isolator in that case to protect the shaft , p bracket, rudder etc .

[LondonRascal]

The skin fitting is part of the assembly - so you must replace both and they come as a 'set' so to speak. I have attached the details from Aquafax below.

Marelon Valves Range.pdf

I am not sure if the fitting of a Galvanic Isolator does much to help your boat from other boats stray currents but is more to stop your own shore power system causing you problems. I could be wrong there. This is another thing to sort because you can bet your boots that Trixie has not got a Galvanic Isolator fitted yet does have a shore power system in place.

Of course it is not all Chandlery based things to get and sort - just ordered every thing from dinner plates and cutlery to saucepans and bedding - I remembered a tin opener - but what would be nice is a sort of 'hire boat' inventory list you can just use as a base to go shopping with as trying to think of the things you might need (I just thought of another - stove top kettle) is taxing on the brain.

[grendel]

I cant find corrosion resistance figures fro DZR Brass, but there must still be some corrosion, as although the resulting brass has less zinc and more copper (thus making it a softer mix) it still must contain zinc, which means it can still corrode,

now if you could get seacocks in monol, I would go for them, when I worked on my first job, we were creating pump lubrication systems, and some of the oils we were pumping were highly corrosive (or potentially highly corrosive) so we had to use monol valves for some parts of the system, but by the looks this Marelon stuff has most plastics beaten hands down, and has better corrosion resistance than most metals.

[StillCruising]

Our Seamaster 30 is nearly forty years old and has the original gate valve fitted. It is open when we use the boat and closed when we leave and is not stiff to operate. The good thing about gate valves is that unlike ball valves there is no water entrapment when the valve is closed. I have seen a ball valve removed from a boat that sank in the severe winter of 2010 where the water entrapped in the ball froze and fractured. I know that the valve was only changed six months before and I will admit that it looked a bit cheap and nasty but I won't be changing mine any time soon.

[FairTmiddlin]

Corkscrew / bottle opener

Decent frying pan

cleaning equipment and fluids

matches or BBQ lighter

NBN pennant X2 (one for Indy Too)

 

 

[Guest]

I can see independence getting lifted and small fortune spent on new seacocks of which there's probably quite a lot .

All metals corrode some less than others and are just as unsusceptible as this new fangled valve is to ultra violet rays a selling point apparently , actually how do skinfittings and valves see the sun in an engine room or under the floor ? , thing is what do super yacht manufactures use ?  

If we all got away from this having to plug in to make a boat work mentality then there would be no galvanic corrosion ! 

[ExSurveyor]

44 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

If we all got away from this having to plug in to make a boat work mentality then there would be no galvanic corrosion ! 

Or coffee machines,  hot water,  electric kettle,  microwave.

I NEED a coffee machine and I wouldn't be able to eat without a microwave

[LondonRascal]

4 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

I can see independence getting lifted and small fortune spent on new seacocks of which there's probably quite a lot

Indepedence has had two sea cocks replaced in 2015 - those that remain operate very easily and are all (internally) showing no signs of any corrosion and are all earth bounded.  The only valve that is of concern and will need attention is one of the fuel balance valves that leads away from the centre fuel tank to the port side.. Not only has the handle begun to show signs of corrosion but the actual threading on the fuel tank and valve is corroded. This may mean getting the damn thing off becoming a challenge. Technically it does not need to be there a the tank outlet, some suitable fuel hose could be put over the corroded thread on the tank, and an inline valve fitted further down the line - or done away with completely since there is another valve in good condition about 6 feet further on at the base of the port wing fuel tank.

About 5cm away from the valve in question, and situated along one of the hull stringers are several wires carrying DC current. I blame their proximity to the valve and the two apposing metals between tank and the valve as cuasing the corrosion as no other valves anywhere else on the boat has any corrosion.

Once NYA have completed their works, and hopefully I have got some trust in her controls again then come the summertime most boaters are enjoying their boats and boatyards are less busy will be the time to lift her and have the anodes dealt with a good inspection too.

I also am keen to learn why water is forming in the forward area of the boat. This is sealed from the engine room area so cannot come from there. It is not that much, not enough to raise the float switch on the bilge bump even. I guess we are talking about a bucket of water collecting over a period of a month - it could be condensation which I found was noticeable in the recent very cold weather - none was showing where hull was underwater, but above the waterline it was very wet with condensation under the cabin sole and and behind panels when removed. It could however be rain water getting in somewhere too. Of course me being the worrying type has got me to wonder if it is seeping in through the bow thruster tunnel/hydraulic motor area, but I am not slender enough to get down to where that is to have a good look.  In the warmer weather with no condensation risk and no rainfall, it will then mean I can begin to track down the source more easily. If it stops suddenly I know it would either be rainwater or condensation - if it continues well then it is something else.

 

[BroomSedan]

Hi Robin,

One thing that will be causing water in the fore peak is the chain pipe. They let in rain water and sea water. It will take a bit of trial and error but if you get a rag in a polythene bag you may be able to stop most of it. Depending on the design, if you get some self amalgamating tape around the chain and the fitting it can be water tight. Some people custom make a plug. At sea you can ship gallons through so it is worth taking a bit of time to sort it out. Bear in mind you have to remove it when you let go the anchor!

Enjoyed watching the delivery of 'Trixie'. The chances are the noise is prop wash not cavitation as you are sitting directly above it. It looks a great little boat, I am sure you will all have loads of fun with it.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, BroomSedan said:

Hi Robin,

One thing that will be causing water in the fore peak is the chain pipe. They let in rain water and sea water. It will take a bit of trial and error but if you get a rag in a polythene bag you may be able to stop most of it. Depending on the design, if you get some self amalgamating tape around the chain and the fitting it can be water tight. Some people custom make a plug. At sea you can ship gallons through so it is worth taking a bit of time to sort it out. Bear in mind you have to remove it when you let go the anchor!

Enjoyed watching the delivery of 'Trixie'. The chances are the noise is prop wash not cavitation as you are sitting directly above it. It looks a great little boat, I am sure you will all have loads of fun with it.

I guess that's why chain lockers have drainage that leads outside the hull well before it gets into the internal sections of the boat , incidentally the chain locker ideally has access from inside the forward berth to facilitate the cutting of the bitter end should the need arise .