Trixie (Rascal's Fleet)

[JanetAnne]

Welcome to the NBF 

[FairTmiddlin]

In Best Harry Enfield Voice

You dont wanna do it like that, you wanna do it like this!

I'll get me coat.

[Smoggy]

When are you fitting the twin warp drives and how many dilithium crystals will you be aiming to have on board?

[Guest]

Sorry to derail this thread , but I have some questions/thoughts about the Sheerline

Is it shaft or hydraulic? I presume the engine is under the cockpit floor

Did you consider the forward drive/sliding roof version at all?

I would have thought the Lithium batteries you have looked at previously would be ideal for this boat. is this the plan?

Calorifer with a 240v element is a good idea, and something I have been thinking about doing myself

How about Mindy for a name, (Mini Indy )

 

 

[SteveO]

We have a 240v immersion heater element in our calorifier and can verify that it makes a huge contribution to creature comfort, without using an excessive amount of electricity. Well worth fitting if you have shore-power.

[Guest]

I'm a bit late to this one, don't worry Robster I have no 'advice' for you.

You seem to do things similar to me, decide you want something, go out and do all you can to get it. Life's too short for lot's of faffing about.

So I wish you all the best with your whole fleet and I wish you and your family the best of times and memories on your boats, and I hope to bump (not literally) into you on the rivers some time.

[LondonRascal]

There have been a number of posts that I had not seen, or when I did failed to read them and understand all of the points raised in them . However, last night I went through the thread from my first post and read everyone’s posts however I want to address this to Ricardo because of the numerous occasions you had addressed points to me and I will explain my feelings, and try to have a very open mind to your own.

Ricardo, you said to me:

Quote

Robin no matter what anyone says n no matter how much more experience that you they have you will do your own thing I accept that , onecthig you need to accept is that there are a heck of a lot of people on this forum that know exactly what works , boating to most people is not a case of try something and hope for the best n if it doesn't work rip it out n try something else , that costs serous money and more importantly time off the river , myself and countless others follow a pretty similar path in the case of refitting boats , upgrading etc , what I want to know more than anything is why you would ignore that completely out of hand.   fine ignore advice that's your propagative but dispelling the knowledge of others with the relitve experience without even considering it is not just foolhardy but insulting .

Now speaking personally i will not try to help you any longer , I'm at the end of the line with that , as far as I'm concerned you can make your own mistakes where as I am wise enough to know I don't know everything and will listen to others and take onboard their suggestions.  I might not follow them I might choose to follow someone else , but you can guarantee what I do about something I'm not sure of will be based on the knowledge of the person giving the advice and I won't discount anyone until iv listened to them .

This does not mean I won't help other people on here  as its in my nature to do so so that will still happen.

Thank you for accepting that I have the right to do things in my own way and I do very well accept there are a number of people on this Forum, you included, that have many years of boating experience and above that also mechanical and electrical hands on experience and knowledge far greater than my own. I am also very open minded to asking for help and advice when I need to and would take on board such advice given to me.

I also appreciate that to many boat owners their boat means the world to them and a real emotional bond is forged because it represents a great deal of money, hard work and pride and provides them with the opportunity for freedom and  and relaxation together with a social aspect of sharing the same with family and friends. I don't for one moment want to ride roughshod over such people and I respect what they do or (or do not) with their boats because that is their choice and business and what works for someone might not for me but that does not make me right or them wrong.

You do however keep raising the point about advice being proffered but me ignoring it, me making mistakes that could prove costly, or ignoring people and or their experience.  You feel that to do such is not only foolhardy, but it is insulting to you or other people who may have tried to help. I do not ever set out to offend anyone, and I try to have a very broad outlook on the world, and people whoever they are are and however they wish to live their lives because I know I may be seen by others to be 'odd' for living my life the way or do or doing what I do and I would not want to be judged so I do not judge others.  By not judging you tend to also try not to offend, and I hope you will see what I am doing here is that - sharing my side and trying to understand yours and meet in the middle.

You saying that I may have been insulting in my actions or ignoring experience and advice lead me go over each and every post to identify those where I may have done this and I am sorry but I can find no such instances.

You have yourselves commented on a number of things I have said and questioned the point of why I may be doing them - an example was about batteries.

I stated:

"... First I want to see what sort of batteries and capacity we have and how much space there may be for additional capacity and that will likely need an upgrade from the current Sterling 240v 20Amp charger in situ...."

And you said in reply to this point...:

Quote

Why ? Iv the same unit and a much bigger battery bank 660 ah n that's in a live aboard boat , battery's are  all lead acid BTW n recharge in 4 hrs without a problem I really don't see changing on less its broke is an up grade but I do see it as an utter waste of money for the sake of it , maybe time to ask questions as to what works and then draw conclusions from the response's given rather than guess , that boar probably has 2-3 domestic battery's n that's all it needs really , remember its worked perfectly well in the past on less your changing it from a holiday boat to a full time live aboard vessel then I really don't get this change everything stuff + my current boat has proved certain systems work over the last 5 yrs with no problems what so ever .

And if I may use that as a an example this is what causes both of us to perhaps get into a bit of a 'grind' over something.

You see I did not raise a point, or question or seek opinion, or advice about the batteries on the boat. I know not what they are, how many they are or how much more I could fit. I simply stated that I wanted to discover what capacity the boat has, see if space can be found to increase that capacity and upgrade the 20Amp mains charger. 

Why did you not just ask as a matter of curiosity  why I would like to do that? I could then have explained my reasoning, you then could have imparted to me your own experiences with batteries and charging of them and so the conversation could have flowed and though not directly proffered, or asked, by so doing I may have learnt something just from the resultant exchange of ideas. 

But having asked me why you then did share your own experiences with your own boat, its battery bank and charger but I took what followed not so much as giving me advice, despite the fact you said that the boat has been doing just fine as a holiday boat all this time, and that to upgrade things from what was already there would be a total waste of money and only be for the sake of it. You also said perhaps it is time for me to stop guessing and start to ask questions as to what works.

But do you see how saying that that may cause me to  react and feel?

You are telling me your view point which is fine,  but you are also effectively pushing it upon me. You are 'telling me off' for not asking things and guessing and telling me that what I had planned would just be a waste of my money. Now you may feel that you are in fact being helpful to try and save me some time and money and  that I should just see how things go for the time being and you gave an example of how effective your set up is to give a real world example of what can be achieved.  If that was your intention then I am sorry, but the way you had written the above it did not come over as that, to me.

You also have said:

Quote

I'm sorry but I just don't get this sod it I'll buy it n if its broke I'll spend loads of cash fixing it , if  for a little effort n knowledge all that is avoidable , that doesn't make sense .

Let me try and explain my logic. On Independence the engine room bilge pump began to play up. When I lifted the float switch the pump would not operate, but when I put the float switch down then low and behold the pump began to run - continuously. Jiggle the float switch and it would turn off, but it might also turn back on and work.  Of all the things you want to be reliable a bilge bump is one of them.

I decided that the float switch was at fault and needed changing. I also thought the bilge pump may have been in the boat since it was built so that could be changed too. Since NYA were working on the boat, I called them to request a new bilge pump and float switch be ordered and fitted.

I was called back some time later to be told that there was no need for a new float switch, or bilge pump since the problem was a wire which had degraded and was loose causing a short circuit. They replaced the wire and re-wired the set up in a better way. It was was nice that they had been honest and only done the work that was needed.

I am using the above as an example since it shows on a small scale how I feel and do things on a larger scale.  I could have shot some video of the issue with the bilge pump, and having shared such here I am sure I would have been told that the symptoms looked very much like a loose connection.  With that help, I could have gone back to the engine room got down and had a look - seen the wire was indeed at fault and used the tools and spares onboard to fix the same. It would have cost me nothing.

But you see, it would have meant me going back into the engine room, getting back on my hands and knees locating the problem, removing the float switch and wiring and taking time to fix it - or I could  just ask NYA to sort it - being a lazy type I opted for the easy route in a flash.

So can you now see that while we may not agree on the methods of solving an issue, I am surly free to decide the route to having that issue fixed - even if it may be so frustrating to think that a few minutes of time, some bits and bobs already on the boat could have sorted it for no cost.

In a fortnight I will be spending a long weekend on Broad Ambition, not having a nice cruise down the river but spending a lot of time on my hands and knees helping Charlie with Dek King, helping fit solar panels, fasteners, running cables - you name it. Just as I removed the headlining bought and fitted extra down lights and wire them up in the past, I am not that much of a 'plonker' with things and I am happy to roll my sleeves up and I enjoy the learning curve and pride that comes with that. I am also happy to let others do it such as NYA on Independence for nothing other than to make my life easier.

I do not judge you, I do not mean to upset you or ignore you or your experience, but I would never think of questioning your ways, choices and decisions whatever they may be and If I make mistakes and they cost me then is that not punishment enough to be 'hit in the wallet' if something goes amiss?

I am not saying to others follow my lead, I am not commenting on people looking to do things and telling them not to bother and just get a yard in to do it all for them - neither am I pushing my point of view over others - no. I am just sharing what I am doing and allowing my own character to come out and I don't think I should be seen as offensive to make statements and share all the exciting and new upgrades that I wish to have done in the little boat to make her that bit more suited to me.

 

 

 

[ZimbiIV]

Robin, some people can not help themselves, if they see things being done the wrong i.e. not their way it must be put right.

Now some advice from me.

Keep doing what you want your way.

ps. I still think you need some go faster stripes and furry dice fitting.

paul

[BroomSedan]

Hi Robin, The 'new' boat looks great, I imagine you will have lots of fun in that. It looks ideal for Sheila's picnic idea. Any chance of doing a blog about it all? There hasn't been a boat review for a while and it would make a good record of how it was before you start the upgrades. When we do our own boats, we like to have a video of before and after. It is good to look back 10 or 20 years to see what you did.

As always, good luck with everything and enjoy it.

[LondonRascal]

Quote

Sorry to derail this thread , but I have some questions/thoughts about the Sheerline

Is it shaft or hydraulic? I presume the engine is under the cockpit floor

Did you consider the forward drive/sliding roof version at all?

I would have thought the Lithium batteries you have looked at previously would be ideal for this boat. is this the plan?

Calorifer with a 240v element is a good idea, and something I have been thinking about doing myself

How about Mindy for a name, (Mini Indy )

The Sheerline has a shaft driven engine, which I personally think is way too much power - this is a light weight, 24ft boat and it has a 42HP engine in it, I have also found she began her life on the Thames before being brought to the Broads and so I am leaning towards the fact (and this may be backed up by the engine size, fit out and pristine condition) that she was never in a hire fleet and was built for a private owner. I will see what I can find out in time on that score.

I spent a weekend on Blue Diamond, this was the forward steer version of the boat when Ludham Bridge Boatyard was run by Jason and they had them as weekend/picnic boats - lovely fit out (it had a 28HP Beta engine in) and there is a video from 2014 on my You Tube channel of this. However, it was very low down and I much prefer the aft cockpit version, and since the boat is going to be also used by my Mum and stepdad, they wanted an aft cockpit boat so this was ideal.

I may be getting Lithium batteries - I would be looking at 400Ah of capacity. Without going too deeply into this, with a 'normal' lead acid battery it is seen as  wise move not to remove from it more than 50% of it's capacity - e.g 100Ah battery should be seen as having 50Ah of usable capacity. Now some say you can take 80% out of a battery and not do too much harm, others say as long as it is not a regular thing taking more than that out won't be too bad either but the overall point is you can't use 90% for example of capacity day in and out and not expect there to be a rapid degradation in the battery. You also cannot rapidly discharge a Lead Acid battery - e.g be drawing say 80Amps or more and expect it to keep up and maintain 12v and give you all those Amps - the voltage will soon decrease, an an Inverter would cut out as this happened.

A Lithium battery that is 200Ah of capacity therefore has more 'usable' capacity - almost all that 200Ah could be used and so companies like to claim that a 200Ah Lithium battery is actual equivalent to a 350Ah Lead Acid battery. This is because you can discharge a lot more out of a Lithium battery and then re-charge it again without it 'suffering' - the more times you take them right down, yes they will not last as long but with maybe 5,000 cycles of re-charge and dis-charge it is claimed again that once you fit one you can forget worrying about batteries down the line as they will last so many years. So what is not to like? Well cost - 200Ah Lithium battery from Alpha Batteries would set you back £1,899.00 - so you can see if you go down this route is it s costly one and you better make sure you need to use the fancy technology or else it would be a waste. I am not sure if I would need to use it on the Sheerline, after all it is a tiny boat, but that will depend on some other ideas I have and I only will know if that is feasible when I get a tape measure out and begin working things out to see if things will fit or not. 

As for the boat Calorifier with an electric element, it is so useful to have - you are moored at the Marina, or say Ranworth Staithe - no need to run the engine to get hot water in the morning they don;t cost the earth and again it may be a case of 'upgrading' (if possible) the size of the tank to be able to supply more hot water, so well worth getting in my opinion.

As for the name this is a hotly debated subject and we have not found agreement with anything yet.

[ranworthbreeze]

17 hours ago, psychicsurveyor said:

A garage isn't for a car it's for sundry boat bits.

I thought that a garage was just for storing bits of wood

Regards

Alan

[Guest]

I have a 300Ah of domestic batteries (lead acid). with similar equipment level to the Sheerline except no bowthruster and that seems to work well so I would say 400Ah will be fine, to be honest I had not realised just how much the Lithium ones cost

Yes the engine is a bit overpowered but as long as the prop is well matched to the boat it will be lovely, plenty of power and quiet cruising. The 4cyl Nannis are much nicer than the 3cyl, smoother and produce their power and torque lower down the rev range which is what you want on the Broads

[Smoggy]

11 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

17 hours ago, psychicsurveyor said:

A garage isn't for a car it's for sundry boat bits.

I thought that a garage was just for storing bits of wood

Regards

Alan

A garage is for motorcycles!

Oh yeah and boaty junk.

[scaniaman]

Just a guess, but are you thinking electric motors?

[ExSurveyor]

8 minutes ago, scaniaman said:

Just a guess, but are you thinking electric motors?

I have worked out his plan,

Robin wants a remote control boat in scale to Indy

[vanessan]

Robin, I really do take my hat off to you. Your responses to Ricardo’s various posts have been so well put and explain your thinking quite clearly. I hope he takes the time to read them and understand them as it is exchanges like these that can really help to diffuse a heated situation. Keep calm and carry on - I think that saying was made for you! 

[LondonRascal]

21 minutes ago, scaniaman said:

Just a guess, but are you thinking electric motors?

Nope, it has something to do with ventilation

[JohnK]

I can see both sides of this (and don’t want to take sides).
What Robin wrote above in response to Ricardo is very well put and fair in my opinion.
I think some of the posts though are done with good intent because it’s believed Robin is doing the wrong thing (I’m not saying Robin is wrong, just that some people may think he is) and there’s a fear that other people (forum lurkers perhaps) will do the same thing. I know Robin always says don’t do what I do but some people will think someone with such a high profile must be an expert.

[ZimbiIV]

For ventilation, I wish my boats vents would accept these 1 for extraction 1 for intake.

https://www.sunshinesolar.co.uk/prodshow/Solar_Vent_or_Fan__Day___Night_Operation___Low_Profile/SSS224.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvdPr39Hu2QIVEeEbCh1I7gr3EAQYASABEgKb5PD_BwE

paul

[LondonRascal]

Well it was a hot topic  between myself and my Mum with a lot of ideas being brought forward for a name, some of these included:

• The Other Mistake
• Not Again
• Binge
• Slippery Beaver
• The Little Boat
• Charm

But then I suggested the name that we gave our long since departed Cat, Trixie. A bit mischievous, cute and easy to remember so I have just drawn up the artwork for the decals - I have added just a touch of '80's feel to the font and colour to lift it - as ever these things are hard to get right but I recon this should look reasonably nice.

[MauriceMynah]

Nice name, and has meaning for you. Well done sir.

[grendel]

Trixie- 

I know a quote with Trixie in it

'Gollum - Those trixie Hobbits'

[Londonlad1985]

Very "New Wave" super cool! 

[WherryNice]

Ventilation......are you planning some AC Robin? If so I'd find that jolly interesting, being too hot is one of my pet hates!

[Guest]

7 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

There have been a number of posts that I had not seen, or when I did failed to read them and understand all of the points raised in them . However, last night I went through the thread from my first post and read everyone’s posts however I want to address this to Ricardo because of the numerous occasions you had addressed points to me and I will explain my feelings, and try to have a very open mind to your own.

Ricardo, you said to me:

Thank you for accepting that I have the right to do things in my own way and I do very well accept there are a number of people on this Forum, you included, that have many years of boating experience and above that also mechanical and electrical hands on experience and knowledge far greater than my own. I am also very open minded to asking for help and advice when I need to and would take on board such advice given to me.

I also appreciate that to many boat owners their boat means the world to them and a real emotional bond is forged because it represents a great deal of money, hard work and pride and provides them with the opportunity for freedom and  and relaxation together with a social aspect of sharing the same with family and friends. I don't for one moment want to ride roughshod over such people and I respect what they do or (or do not) with their boats because that is their choice and business and what works for someone might not for me but that does not make me right or them wrong.

You do however keep raising the point about advice being proffered but me ignoring it, me making mistakes that could prove costly, or ignoring people and or their experience.  You feel that to do such is not only foolhardy, but it is insulting to you or other people who may have tried to help. I do not ever set out to offend anyone, and I try to have a very broad outlook on the world, and people whoever they are are and however they wish to live their lives because I know I may be seen by others to be 'odd' for living my life the way or do or doing what I do and I would not want to be judged so I do not judge others.  By not judging you tend to also try not to offend, and I hope you will see what I am doing here is that - sharing my side and trying to understand yours and meet in the middle.

You saying that I may have been insulting in my actions or ignoring experience and advice lead me go over each and every post to identify those where I may have done this and I am sorry but I can find no such instances.

You have yourselves commented on a number of things I have said and questioned the point of why I may be doing them - an example was about batteries.

I stated:

"... First I want to see what sort of batteries and capacity we have and how much space there may be for additional capacity and that will likely need an upgrade from the current Sterling 240v 20Amp charger in situ...."

And you said in reply to this point...:

And if I may use that as a an example this is what causes both of us to perhaps get into a bit of a 'grind' over something.

You see I did not raise a point, or question or seek opinion, or advice about the batteries on the boat. I know not what they are, how many they are or how much more I could fit. I simply stated that I wanted to discover what capacity the boat has, see if space can be found to increase that capacity and upgrade the 20Amp mains charger. 

Why did you not just ask as a matter of curiosity  why I would like to do that? I could then have explained my reasoning, you then could have imparted to me your own experiences with batteries and charging of them and so the conversation could have flowed and though not directly proffered, or asked, by so doing I may have learnt something just from the resultant exchange of ideas. 

But having asked me why you then did share your own experiences with your own boat, its battery bank and charger but I took what followed not so much as giving me advice, despite the fact you said that the boat has been doing just fine as a holiday boat all this time, and that to upgrade things from what was already there would be a total waste of money and only be for the sake of it. You also said perhaps it is time for me to stop guessing and start to ask questions as to what works.

But do you see how saying that that may cause me to  react and feel?

You are telling me your view point which is fine,  but you are also effectively pushing it upon me. You are 'telling me off' for not asking things and guessing and telling me that what I had planned would just be a waste of my money. Now you may feel that you are in fact being helpful to try and save me some time and money and  that I should just see how things go for the time being and you gave an example of how effective your set up is to give a real world example of what can be achieved.  If that was your intention then I am sorry, but the way you had written the above it did not come over as that, to me.

You also have said:

Let me try and explain my logic. On Independence the engine room bilge pump began to play up. When I lifted the float switch the pump would not operate, but when I put the float switch down then low and behold the pump began to run - continuously. Jiggle the float switch and it would turn off, but it might also turn back on and work.  Of all the things you want to be reliable a bilge bump is one of them.

I decided that the float switch was at fault and needed changing. I also thought the bilge pump may have been in the boat since it was built so that could be changed too. Since NYA were working on the boat, I called them to request a new bilge pump and float switch be ordered and fitted.

I was called back some time later to be told that there was no need for a new float switch, or bilge pump since the problem was a wire which had degraded and was loose causing a short circuit. They replaced the wire and re-wired the set up in a better way. It was was nice that they had been honest and only done the work that was needed.

I am using the above as an example since it shows on a small scale how I feel and do things on a larger scale.  I could have shot some video of the issue with the bilge pump, and having shared such here I am sure I would have been told that the symptoms looked very much like a loose connection.  With that help, I could have gone back to the engine room got down and had a look - seen the wire was indeed at fault and used the tools and spares onboard to fix the same. It would have cost me nothing.

But you see, it would have meant me going back into the engine room, getting back on my hands and knees locating the problem, removing the float switch and wiring and taking time to fix it - or I could  just ask NYA to sort it - being a lazy type I opted for the easy route in a flash.

So can you now see that while we may not agree on the methods of solving an issue, I am surly free to decide the route to having that issue fixed - even if it may be so frustrating to think that a few minutes of time, some bits and bobs already on the boat could have sorted it for no cost.

In a fortnight I will be spending a long weekend on Broad Ambition, not having a nice cruise down the river but spending a lot of time on my hands and knees helping Charlie with Dek King, helping fit solar panels, fasteners, running cables - you name it. Just as I removed the headlining bought and fitted extra down lights and wire them up in the past, I am not that much of a 'plonker' with things and I am happy to roll my sleeves up and I enjoy the learning curve and pride that comes with that. I am also happy to let others do it such as NYA on Independence for nothing other than to make my life easier.

I do not judge you, I do not mean to upset you or ignore you or your experience, but I would never think of questioning your ways, choices and decisions whatever they may be and If I make mistakes and they cost me then is that not punishment enough to be 'hit in the wallet' if something goes amiss?

I am not saying to others follow my lead, I am not commenting on people looking to do things and telling them not to bother and just get a yard in to do it all for them - neither am I pushing my point of view over others - no. I am just sharing what I am doing and allowing my own character to come out and I don't think I should be seen as offensive to make statements and share all the exciting and new upgrades that I wish to have done in the little boat to make her that bit more suited to me.

 

 

 

Robin the point I made in that post was pretty simple to understand that being upgrading the charging system is  unnecessary as I have proven over the last 5 yrs on a much bigger battery bank than you likely to be able to fit , my problem is that someone can see that post and get the message that they too should upgrade having got the same charger one you haven't even used as ye where as I'm speaking for first hand experience of exactly the same unit , incidentally I phoned sterling power products regarding this when I was choosing what to put on board as the boat had no charger at all and in the process of that ended up talking to Charles Sterling  himself and upon hearing what I wanted to do confirmed that the charger was indeed suitable , now he could have said it wasn't and force me to spend more on a bigger unit but if you ever get to talk to him directly then you  find he's an extremely knowable person and well worth listening too .

Now as far as I'm concerned I'm not bothering with this thread anymore , and on less someone brings my name into it by direct quote or as in latter last night and later removed an example of sarcasm and ridiculous inaccuracy then I'm leaving it alone  and its as simple as that , incidentally judging by the message's iv received to day I'm not the only person that feels like this .